Logic

[mcpacker]

I have finally figured all this out. Pretty much all of Jesus' teachings are focused on one word. Faith. What is the point of rewarding the faithful if faith is not required? We are not living in reality. It only appears to be reality because we don't have anything to compare it with. The truth of this world has been destroyed by those who have been ejected from heaven. They will never again be present to the glory of God so they will do everything in their power to keep as many people as they can from it also. They are doing a really good job but I see the game they are playing and it is a fixed game where everyone that plays loses. I feel silly for ever doubting now.

 

[Crosssword]

If you're logic is coming to the wrong conclusions then it is flawed and you haven't dug far enough yet. Do not despair, for the reward of facing these issues is a deeper and stronger faith, but can you handle the truth? Can you really face the true horrible nature both of human beings and the world?

I have allowed my mind to wander for years and I've heard just about every argument out there. Those doubting their faith send me a PM or post your concerns and I will show you how I can argue on behalf of the faith. That God is real and Jesus is his son is absolutely 100% indisputable to my mind. I have eradicated all doubt.

Whether the argument is philosophic, historic, psychological, scientific, occultic, or personal I am confident in my ability to argue on behalf of Christ even within the confines of whatever type of logic you are approaching the situation with.

For starters, I think it's pretty obvious that we are all sinners. There are perhaps many gods and goddesses, but not one of them has died for your sins. Jesus Christ is not just a personal savior he is the man who changed all of history.

Now many will say that if faith could be proven then it wouldn't be faith. It is proven when you go on a personal journey to find it. If you are expecting God to open the sky and say hello would that enhance your faith or would your mind still want to fathom other explanations for it? See, even if he did that it would be pointless. Moreover, you will have been shown the holy spirit and therefore given the opportunity to blaspheme it which is something God would like to protect you from.

To those with no spirituality at all, I would kindly refer you to gain some experience with the occult. Perhaps when you are knee deep in demons you will be ready to conclude there is also a God. As blasphemous as this sounds, it really is a step up from atheism, if there is absolutely no other way.

Or look at this way, if you believe nothing and it is measured you then you will just die. Isn't it worth putting some investment into some kind of afterlife perceptions? Now think carefully about the kinds of afterlives you can have:

1) Ghost - if it happens it happens
2) Reincarnation - if it happens it happens
3) Going to hell - THIS IS THE ONE YOU GOTTA WORRY ABOUT

Perhaps you think all religion is an attempt to control the population. Let us remember that Jesus fought on behalf of the people, and his promise is to exalt the victims and heal the broken-hearted. If you really look into this you'll see that it is satan whose cults seek to control every aspect of the population.

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. When you know what to look for the magnificence of God's story is proclaimed everywhere. If all the world would become Egypt we will be taken out of Egypt. If all the world would become Israel Jesus will come in his glory with 10,000s of his saints.

None of this is real: Those who claim this to be the case deny that God created us and deny that he meant for us to even exist in this world. Do you think that God is just living inside his own head? You'd might as well surrender the gift of life, the gift of love, the gift of creation and go back to just being an idea in God's mind. Satan would love to cancel out all of Gods creations this way. Be careful of getting too much into newage stuff and ego-death stuff. Christ does teach to deny yourself, but it's meant for you to take charge of your life and stop sinning. He will then reward you with an abundant life. The world is messed up because we messed up, and because satan messed it up, not because it's some kind of demented test that doesn't really exist. If it didn't matter then none of our sins would mean anything.

I ask you, is there any other faith that is as rewarding, merciful, and loving? Is there any other Gods? If you check you will see that Christianity is about the people, the family unit, and most lives and marriages built upon the holy rock that is Christ are built to last. This God died to save your sins. Frankly I don't see how ANYONE would want to deny this free gift, even if they don't want to become a devout Christian.

I will tell you now, that whenever you are loving yourself, loving others as yourself, being good, and loving life you are walking with the lord even if you don't know it. And whenever you are taking for yourself, being sinful, mean, petty, it also will be returned to you for you are walking with satan and don't even know it.

Ancient peoples understood karma, and regardless of your belief experience will show it to be true. Just as quantum mechanics confirms what Jesus said "as you measure it shall be measured you." If you google five wisdoms of science you will find eastern religions also already knew many profound truths. The spiritual world is nothing to be taken lightly or ignored.

Moreover there will soon come a time when no-one will be able to ignore it. There will be no more atheism, every person will have to make a choice between God and the devil.

So what you must ask yourself is WHAT IS HOLY IN YOUR LIFE? WHAT IS SACRED IN YOUR LIFE? Watch:

[youtube]ke-tWQB6yZ0[/youtube]

What you do is what you get, don't be surprised by that effect...

It's easy to ignore what's really happening. Psychologically if we dwell on the sad things of this world it will eat us up. Moreover, this world desensitizes us to violence, it creeps in occult themes everywhere, it slowly beguiles us into lust and sin. There are always tons of things we don't want to face, and they are what lock us into thinking we are so great. Look really hard and you will see that while this heaven and this earth will pass away, Jesus words ring true. They will by no means pass away.

The actions of those who have power in this world are absolutely inexcusable. When people put themselves ahead of others instead of help each other it is inexcusable. War is inexcusable. We are no better then fleas who fight over who owns the dog, none of us do. The way of giving begets love, the way of taking begets violence and death. If everyone would give, the way of giving leads to prosperity. Do you hate this world as much as God does? Then you better hope with all your heart that Jesus is the son of God, because he is the only one that can save you. Repent and ask God to come into your life. You will be amazed at the results.

 

[mcpacker]

If you're logic is coming to the wrong conclusions then it is flawed and you haven't dug far enough yet. Do not despair, for the reward of facing these issues is a deeper and stronger faith, but can you handle the truth? Can you really face the true horrible nature both of human beings and the world?

I have allowed my mind to wander for years and I've heard just about every argument out there. Those doubting their faith send me a PM or post your concerns and I will show you how I can argue on behalf of the faith. That God is real and Jesus is his son is absolutely 100% indisputable to my mind. I have eradicated all doubt.

Whether the argument is philosophic, historic, psychological, scientific, occultic, or personal I am confident in my ability to argue on behalf of Christ even within the confines of whatever type of logic you are approaching the situation with.

For starters, I think it's pretty obvious that we are all sinners. There are perhaps many gods and goddesses, but not one of them has died for your sins. Jesus Christ is not just a personal savior he is the man who changed all of history.

Now many will say that if faith could be proven then it wouldn't be faith. It is proven when you go on a personal journey to find it. If you are expecting God to open the sky and say hello would that enhance your faith or would your mind still want to fathom other explanations for it? See, even if he did that it would be pointless. Moreover, you will have been shown the holy spirit and therefore given the opportunity to blaspheme it which is something God would like to protect you from.

To those with no spirituality at all, I would kindly refer you to gain some experience with the occult. Perhaps when you are knee deep in demons you will be ready to conclude there is also a God. As blasphemous as this sounds, it really is a step up from atheism, if there is absolutely no other way.

Or look at this way, if you believe nothing and it is measured you then you will just die. Isn't it worth putting some investment into some kind of afterlife perceptions? Now think carefully about the kinds of afterlives you can have:

1) Ghost - if it happens it happens
2) Reincarnation - if it happens it happens
3) Going to hell - THIS IS THE ONE YOU GOTTA WORRY ABOUT

Perhaps you think all religion is an attempt to control the population. Let us remember that Jesus fought on behalf of the people, and his promise is to exalt the victims and heal the broken-hearted. If you really look into this you'll see that it is satan whose cults seek to control every aspect of the population.

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. When you know what to look for the magnificence of God's story is proclaimed everywhere. If all the world would become Egypt we will be taken out of Egypt. If all the world would become Israel Jesus will come in his glory with 10,000s of his saints.

None of this is real: Those who claim this to be the case deny that God created us and deny that he meant for us to even exist in this world. Do you think that God is just living inside his own head? You'd might as well surrender the gift of life, the gift of love, the gift of creation and go back to just being an idea in God's mind. Satan would love to cancel out all of Gods creations this way. Be careful of getting too much into newage stuff and ego-death stuff. Christ does teach to deny yourself, but it's meant for you to take charge of your life and stop sinning. He will then reward you with an abundant life. The world is messed up because we messed up, and because satan messed it up, not because it's some kind of demented test that doesn't really exist. If it didn't matter then none of our sins would mean anything.

I ask you, is there any other faith that is as rewarding, merciful, and loving? Is there any other Gods? If you check you will see that Christianity is about the people, the family unit, and most lives and marriages built upon the holy rock that is Christ are built to last. This God died to save your sins. Frankly I don't see how ANYONE would want to deny this free gift, even if they don't want to become a devout Christian.

I will tell you now, that whenever you are loving yourself, loving others as yourself, being good, and loving life you are walking with the lord even if you don't know it. And whenever you are taking for yourself, being sinful, mean, petty, it also will be returned to you for you are walking with satan and don't even know it.

Ancient peoples understood karma, and regardless of your belief experience will show it to be true. Just as quantum mechanics confirms what Jesus said "as you measure it shall be measured you." If you google five wisdoms of science you will find eastern religions also already knew many profound truths. The spiritual world is nothing to be taken lightly or ignored.

Moreover there will soon come a time when no-one will be able to ignore it. There will be no more atheism, every person will have to make a choice between God and the devil.

So what you must ask yourself is WHAT IS HOLY IN YOUR LIFE? WHAT IS SACRED IN YOUR LIFE? Watch:

[youtube]ke-tWQB6yZ0[/youtube]

What you do is what you get, don't be surprised by that effect...

It's easy to ignore what's really happening. Psychologically if we dwell on the sad things of this world it will eat us up. Moreover, this world desensitizes us to violence, it creeps in occult themes everywhere, it slowly beguiles us into lust and sin. There are always tons of things we don't want to face, and they are what lock us into thinking we are so great. Look really hard and you will see that while this heaven and this earth will pass over, Jesus words ring true. They will be no means pass away.

Honestly this forum makes me not want anything to do with Christianity. A few of you that have posted to this thread have helped me with my issues. It is clear though that some of you love the sound of your own voices.

I'm done with Christian Forums.


"The message of Jesus as I understand it," said Gandhi, "is contained in the Sermon on the Mount unadulterated and taken as a whole... If then I had to face only the Sermon on the Mount and my own interpretation of it, I should not hesitate to say, 'Oh, yes, I am a Christian.' But negatively I can tell you that in my humble opinion, what passes as Christianity is a negation of the Sermon on the Mount... I am speaking of the Christian belief, of Christianity as it is understood in the west."

 

[Crosssword]

Well excuse me for trying, excuse me for wanting some good to have come out of all my thoughts and journeys. Excuse me for making objective statements AND THINKING OF MORE PEOPLE THEN JUST SELFISH OLD YOU.

If you are going to spit on my efforts on behalf of the lord then maybe I ought to spit on your faith as a whole? Deal with your own problems and face your own doubts then, because I won't say another word to YOU unless you apologize both to me and to God. You don't like the forums then LEAVE, I assure you you won't be missed. Take your negative behavior back to satan from whence it came or learn how to interact with people in a civilized manner.

I have selflessly given my life to the lord. What you accuse me of is almost blasphemy of the holy Ghost. Jesus wouldn't put up with you for a second, and neither will I. Yeah don't converse or debate just condemn, because that's all you can do. Run away like a worthless pathetic coward.

DO NOT PULL A GUN if you're not ready to use it. Likewise do not proceed to cross swords with me if you aren't going to fight. You will be defeated every single time. Do not think you have the right insult your opponent because they don't go for the kill. If you are granted mercy then take your shame and depart.

By all means, declare that I don't know God. Say onto me "Thou Fool," and be ye in danger of hellfire.

 

[vespasia]

Pure logic is an area of philosophy I doubt my mind will ever cope with, my maths simply is not strong enough to cope with following the arguments. I suspect that this terms tutition on the Philosophical arguements for an against God may make my poor little mind squeak.

I do wish however that more Christians could cope with critical thinking even if they like me cannot follow into the realms of the mathmatics of logic. Shame as I would like to be able to follow Nicholas on the Vision of God with better ability.

Christ told us to love God with all our hearts, all our soul and all our minds [Matthew22:37] Unlike God we can struggle to keep the balance between those things at a level that is healthy that enables our relationship with God.

Every philosopher starting point is shaped by their own contexts. Some acknowledge this others do not.

Your certainly not the first nor will you be the last person to question faith in God. God created us to wonder but sometimes when we wonder we can also wander.

Having read your comment about wondering what existed before Creation- have you ever looked at apophatic theology?
If you have an exceptional intellect point it towards good use- sometimes it can be hard as some in the Church can have a very hard time coping with such. If God is the most creative awesome intellect out there then we should not be too surprised that some humans made in Gods image can also have exceptional intellects.

Belief may be a human choice but faith is a gift [1 Corinthians 12:9] and a fruit that comes from Gods spirit active in our lives [Galations 5:22]. Some may be given faith in God as a gift whilst others as their relationship with God grows begin to blossom and over time develop the fruit of faith. God knows better than we which is most helpful and to whom.

Logic can have a place in theology but like any human tool if used incorrectly it can turn in our hands and hurt and even harm. It may help a human decide to believe but it is not the source of faith. My theological understanding is that faith is derived from the presence of Gods spirit in our lives. There is nothing wrong with going back to God and asking for help in believing through faith. Others in the bible have asked God for such help.

We as humans are created in the image of God, if so that makes sense of God having emotions for we have emotions however we are made in Gods image so how we sense and experience emotions does not mean that this how they are to God for we are merely the image of God and not God.

God created all things and created them for good for in Genesis 1 we see God stating that what God created was good. Somewhere somehow something became twisted and paradoxical. The created world is not how God created it something has besmirched it and it has fallen form what it should be. Various theodicical arguements try to address what happened to the best of human reasoning such as the free-will arguement or the soul making arguement yet the problem remains that we sense something is not as it should be but we lack Gods wisdom and knowledge of exactly what went wrong. I think if we did have Gods knowledge and wisdom on this to answer the problem of sin pain and suffering then our limited minds they may try and escape the enormity and horror or the reality seen from the point of view of the righteous and good Creator God of all things.

God is creative, God gives life but some may choose to reject this no matter what God does. God may in the end give them what their hearts so long for and withdraw from them. We do not know what God will do all we can do is use our best theological reasoning to try and understand within our limited capacities who Christ is and why salvation was needed. Faith may sprout from such deep spiritual wrestlings if we invite God to help us.
God may know those who are Gods [In faith I believe this although I cannot prove this] but humans do not so we should share the message of the gospel with all and leave the touching of their hearts to seek God in Gods more capable hands and be ready to support encourage and enable those God gathers.

Following Christ is a great adventure. It can have its heart stopping moments of fear, of not knowing if you are where you think you are but when we get to the end we should be able to look back with a cry of Joy as we see where Christ has been alongside us and where Christ is there waiting for us.

Following Christ is not always going to be fun let alone easy. There will be times when you will be deeply challenged and even feel broken. Being formed into that new creation as you allow God to conform you into Christ is not pain free- sometimes it can be excrutiating. It can happen at any point in our lives as we follow but for those who hit points of atrophication that may be very painful and leave them feeling broken beyond Gods ability to mould into the shape of Gods hands.

John Hick might be worth reading if your questioning the logic of God. there are Christian Philosophers out there.
Thomas Torrence can perhaps tackle where quantum, logic and God touch. I know there are other physicists who are also theologians who have looked at logic but I have not read them as yet.

Once I had worked out Christ is perfect but his followers are not for all they claim to follow him I could focus upon Christ and forbear with his sheeple. That is not always easy but with Gods grace it becomes possible.

May God bless you with what you need as you seek to follow Christ in integrity.

 

[vespasia]

DO NOT PULL A GUN if you're not ready to use it. Likewise do not proceed to cross swords with me if you aren't going to fight. You will be defeated every single time. Do not think you have the right insult your opponent because they don't go for the kill. If you are granted mercy then take your shame and depart.

You have overstepped acceptable behaviour for a young Christian.

This is NOT your lair.

This is a place where people may come and seek how to begin a relationship with Christ, to ask questions that concern them and to wonder about the awesome Christ we frail humans try to follow.


IF you behave like a snotty nosed wannabe do-it-meself teenage satanist on this forum again I assure you I will stand.

 

[mcpacker]

Well excuse me for trying, excuse me for wanting some good to have come out of all my thoughts and journeys. Excuse me for making objective statements AND THINKING OF MORE PEOPLE THEN JUST SELFISH OLD YOU.

If you are going to spit on my efforts on behalf of the lord then maybe I ought to spit on your faith as a whole? Deal with your own problems and face your own doubts then, because I won't say another word to YOU unless you apologize both to me and to God. You don't like the forums then LEAVE, I assure you you won't be missed. Take your negative behavior back to satan from whence it came or learn how to interact with people in a civilized manner.

I have selflessly given my life to the lord. What you accuse me of is almost blasphemy of the holy Ghost. Jesus wouldn't put up with you for a second, and neither will I. Yeah don't converse or debate just condemn, because that's all you can do. Run away like a worthless pathetic coward.

DO NOT PULL A GUN if you're not ready to use it. Likewise do not proceed to cross swords with me if you aren't going to fight. You will be defeated every single time. Do not think you have the right insult your opponent because they don't go for the kill. If you are granted mercy then take your shame and depart.

By all means, declare that I don't know God. Say onto me "Thou Fool," and be ye in danger of hellfire.

I cannot defend my actions. What I said was rash, insensitive and unfair. You posted what you did with only the best intentions and I will fully understand if you do not accept my apology. I cannot accomplish my goal alone and anyone can see that I have a lot of work to do. This apology is not directed to one person but to all of you. I would love for us to move beyond this but I fully understand if my apology is not accepted. I say this with the utmost humility. There are no excuses for what I said. I'm sorry.

Crossword with your permission can I show you the faults I see in you? Growth takes work but it is worth it.

Vespasia thank you for sharing what you did. I have done very hard things in my life. My time in the United States Marine Corps made me a better person but it was very hard work. I can look back on that time and strangely feel good about myself. With the horrors I have lived through and the things I have done to stay alive and to now be willing to humble myself before God shows me there is more to this world than what we see with our eyes.

I had a funny conversation with my mom today. I told her I would never call myself a Christian but instead want to live by the example Jesus Christ has shown us. She kinda laughed and said "You do realize that makes you a Christian right?" It is funny how things work.

 

[vespasia]

Whilst I personally have no idea what it is like to work in the armed forces I have some very old and close friends who have. The closest I have been is getting caught up in bombings in the UK during the Troubles. Almost all my friends have found they have some very serious questions they ask God simply because they have seen and experienced things others cannot imagine. Some struggle with the pain of survivor guilt - why did they live when their friends around them died.

God is so big I am sure God can cope with being questioned after all God coped with David, Jonah, Elijah and a heap of other people turning round and being very human towards God at times.

God got my attention during a magickal exploration involving henosis, serves me right for trying that. God turned up and made an offer even I thought I should take seriously although it took me a few weeks to work out this came from the OT.
Isaiah 1:18-20“Come now, let us reason together,”
says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Up until then all I had heard was the over riding meta-narrative from evangelicals of what can best be summed up as 'What a friend we have in Jesus'what I was looking for was a God who could see all the problems in the world and did not mind getting Gods hands dirty by becoming involved. Finding the preceding verses that spoke of [Isaiah1 16-17] Stop doing wrong,
learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.
Made me wonder if perhaps this was the entity I had been seeking. The point about 'let us reason' demonstrated God could cope with hard questions and critical thinking even if the average Christian seemed to think there was a demon of intellect that should be checked out at the churches door. God called Paul of Tarsus, a scholarly Jewish theologioan and businessman. God surely would not have done so if Christians were all meant to be none academics. The lovely thing about the body of Christ is that there is room for all abilities for all working together show something of the image of God, if in turn we live as best we can following Christ then that can point others towards Christ.

I have an idea of what you mean by refusing to use the label Christian; when I was practicing on the LHP and working with others I would look at how some Christians behaved towards those in need. It was rare to see ones who truly were Christ-like but when we do choose to follow Christ something begins to happen we become more like Christ so christianos can become a label we can bear for it points others towards the Christ we follow. Being conformed to Christ is not always an easy or pleasant process but it is an adventure that even old soldiers as well as those who have been sinsitri can embrace.

 

[Crosssword]

I too would like to apologize for being mean. As you say we are all growing in Christ. To each of us, some aspects of righteousness are clear, while others may elude us from time to time. There is a lesson in learning to tolerate and forgive the faults you find to be most reprehensible.

While I have not yet gotten the hang of doing this perfectly, I think it is because deep down inside I would like for both parties to have to apologize. Ever since taking the blame for my father's suicide I have developed this questionable sense of honor. It's no fun being the only one to apologize.

While I can't defend allowing myself to get caught up in anger, I can defend Christ in that he willingly gave up his self-perfection to take upon himself the sins of all who would accept him. His noble descent into sin even sent him to hell, but it was there that he seized the keys to death and hell and was raised.

A good example would be two people who bump into each other. Maybe one of them is more at fault then the other, but after some harsh words both apologize and forgive. We sinners have been bumping into God our whole lives, but he is ever the shining example of a truly mature person.

Lastly I am sorry that what I was trying to do was not specifically helpful to you.

 

[papaJP]

The Bible describes God as being a person. Our father. When it says in the Bible that God gets angry and happy it sounds silly to me. A being powerful enough to create everything we see and don't see has human emotions?

Since God created everything that means he created satan and sin. If He didn't create satan would that not put satan on the same level as God? Why create sin if he loves us so much? I'm fairly confident that Adam and Eve could not create such a concept without God already knowing that they would do that.

God is said to be omniscient. That means He knew everything that would happen before he created anything. So that means He already knew who would accept His love and who would not. He love us and wants to be with us and gets sad when people do not accept his love. Then those people are sent to hell and are permanently separated from Him. He already knew that these people would end up in that place so why did he create them in the first place. That seems counter productive.

Just so it is clear I am not trying to provoke a nasty argument. All I want is for someone to show me the holes in these thoughts. BY mcpacker
____________________________________________________
The Bible describes God as being a person. Our father. When it says in the Bible that God gets angry and happy it sounds silly to me. A being powerful enough to create everything we see and don't see has human emotions?
God is God and the use of person should not be considered as physical flesh. A better word would have been personification. God created us and our emotions. He understands them and it should not be disconcerning that He is described as having emotions so we can understand how He reacts to our actions.
Since God created everything that means he created satan and sin. If He didn't create satan would that not put satan on the same level as God? Why create sin if he loves us so much? I'm fairly confident that Adam and Eve could not create such a concept without God already knowing that they would do that.
God created satan originally as an angel and satan was given the ability of choice as man was. He chose to try and become equal to God so God kicked him out of His presence and satan became the ruler of the world since it after the fall was full of sin and death. God did not create sin He created Good and Evil but the Evil was not present until man ate of the tree of good and evil that he was ordered not to eat of.
God had this tree of good and evil because we were given a choice of obeying or not. If we were not to obey then we must have some punishment for our actions. All actions have consequences and sin was the consequence of disobeying God.
You question the knowing of God. God knows everything from eternally. His knowing does not interfer with us having a choice. He is outside of time and we are in time so what He knows in not in our time.
God is said to be omniscient. That means He knew everything that would happen before he created anything. So that means He already knew who would accept His love and who would not. He love us and wants to be with us and gets sad when people do not accept his love. Then those people are sent to hell and are permanently separated from Him. He already knew that these people would end up in that place so why did he create them in the first place. That seems counter productive.
God is omniscent. He is however outside of our time. He knows everything but He does not interfer with our choices. If you will stop and think. God designed the world and man. He gave them the ability to recreate and He does not create each of us. We are born through the natural recreation of man and woman througth the natural birth process. Each of us have the ability to choose to believe or not to believe. We were given a gift that even the angels did not get. We can ask for forgiveness and repent and He will restore us to purity of sin. This is because He gave His fleshly life as Jesus the Christ so we could overcome sin and the death that all were cursed with from the beginning of our banishment.

You must remember that God is beyond time and fleshly matter as He is spirit. We are who believe and walk the walk filled with His Holy Spirit so we will someday be beyond time and flesh also.

I pray that you will seek his knowledge and forgiveness for anything you may have done that the Holy Spirit will reveal to you so you can join God in the eternal life of love. If you will continue to question but seek answers through prayer, study and the Holy Spirit you will grow to be the spiritual believer who walks the walk of Jesus.

 

[Crosssword]

First of all, God does experience emotions, an infinite array of them. We are fully created in his image. I also know that he does onto us as we do onto him and onto others. Since you perceive him to be without emotions, that is how he appears to you. He is, in reality, far beyond our perceptions. Therefore I shall place no limitations on him whatsoever in my mind. God is a living God. He is not less of a person then us, he is far more of one.

As for the rest of your statements, you ignore and deny that we are capable of freewill. God does not know our actions in the way that you think. His mind is unlimited enough that he knows every possible future, therefore it appears that things are predestined. Prophecy, on the other hand, is completely fixed into all realities. God did not create satan he created Lucifer who became satan. Angels too have the gift of freewill. Satan does nothing but accuse God, and accuse us. God does not want accusations, he wants a righteous and loving operation that is running smoothly. Jesus Christ is the means to this end. Satan accuses, Christ says so what? It's forgiven. Christ liberates our beauty from our burdens. Jesus tells satan to shut-up at every turn and makes his accusations completely meaningless. Then satan storms off in anger. Forgiveness is more righteous then justice, but if we want forgiveness then we must forgive all. Therefore Christians are persecuted, to see if they will forgive those who offend them. God permits it, because forgiveness is absolutely essential.

As heavenly father, it is clear that we are considered his sons. We are Gods of a lesser kind, having the same faculties as God, but lesser and finite. Just as we have freewill, so does God, yes I dare say a personality even. Being Infinite, God experiences what it is like to be finite by walking with us. Our being finite is what makes us unique, but trouble comes in that without perfect knowledge we are prone to err. If could reach his exalted level, we would not even be ourselves anymore. Instead we should seek him out, that we may enjoy each others company, and be placed into a paradise.

"I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion," saith the lord.

He is not just some computer with completely fixed standards of righteousness as one might suspect. The Bible tells us on several occasions that Lord repents. The first example is the flood. There are two in the book of Amos where the prophet begs him to help the airs of Jacob after seeing a terrible vision and notes "the lord repented of this." Here we see a prophet asking God to change his mind a little bit concerning the prophecy and he agrees. Herein we see his mercy. God did what had to be done, but he lamented it. God's way is righteousness, but it is also righteous to not be completely unyielding. We can learn a lot from his character, which is revealed to us through his actions and through his beloved son Jesus. What is most important therefore, is that God likes us. He has told us what he likes and doesn't like.

It is better therefore, to seek out God as if he were a living being who is free to delight in our company or hate us regardless of any standard. We know that he is loving, but despite everything that has been said he is by no means obligated to us. It is through our appealing to him in humility, our efforts to really get to know him, that speak from the heart and give us a chance to get on his good side. Jesus reserves the right to deny anyone at all that doesn't respect him as a person. They can even cast out demons in his name, but he will tell them to depart for they did not know him.

A relationship is a relationship. How we handle our relationships speaks volumes to him. "If you do it onto the least of these, ye have done it onto me." God is a family man, and he has invited us into his family. God even has a sense of humor. Blessed be everyone who he has opened up to enough to reveal it to. God, and Jesus who sits on the right of his throne, they are perfect and wise. We are his children.

To me, the sin of adultery is far more then promiscuity. This word defines the act of being an adult. To be a child is to be granted mercy, to be guided, and to be humble enough to respect your elders and bring your problems to God. To be adults is to cultivate the attitude that we know it all ourselves and can do it all on our own. Here is where we get into trouble, and if we don't go back to being his children, then we will be forced "to take it like a man" and be judged for our transgressions. Child and Father are used to illustrate the finite depending upon the infinite.

Lastly, it's okay for us to admit that at some point we saw God as being distant from us. As being some cold authority figure who could care less. Are not all kings this way? After all, kings are but men, and all men are finite. Our misconception with God's authority comes in that he is not finite. I remember that my father hated the idea of God being an old man in the sky. The occultists tell us to look beyond this, as if he is some ball of light. How should a living God treat people who don't want to get to know him, BUT WANT TO SEE HIM NAKED and have him dancing like a puppet? Is it any wonder they instead worship the mother goddess? For a woman can be forced to become naked and dance for them. The sorcerers seek to input their will and create what they want, thereby mating with their own mothers.

So we need to stop thinking about ourselves and stop thinking there is some code to just get what we want from God. The Bible is his framework, but if we do not seek to cultivate an actual relationship with the lord then we do no better then the men who completely oppress their wives. Many of us go about our busy lives, we think that God is just about salvation. We fail to make him part of our lives.

There is also a note for caution though. It is important to remain humble, lest we should worship our own imaginations. It is through prayer that we appeal to them, and no one comes to the father except through the son.