Hmmm... It's hard to see it as good news from the onset because of all of the things that are attached with the concept, I suppose. Not everything in the bible is sunshine and daisies, and it paints a grim picture of the world we live in - albeit, with a silver lining. Discussing these things are one reason I'm here, though. =)
As for my understanding for sin and why things are the way they are, this is from the particular version of christianity I was raised with. From what I remember, all evil in the world comes about from man's choice when he/she sinned and chose to disobey god. They fell from grace, and this separated them from god (both literally and figuratively, as they were removed from the garden of eden). We are now exposed to things such as suffering and satan's cruelty because of this separation.
From what I remember, the world we live in is now under satan's power. God is allowing him to rule this world for a time while he (satan) waits for the end times when he and his angels are cast into the lake of fire.
I guess I could ask why it's ok to be punished for the sins of our father, but in the nature of the reality we live in, this can be explained. For example, I'm hesitant to have children. I know that if I did, there would be a high likelihood of passing on certain traits to my children that they could possibly suffer with. One could also point out the unfairness of an ultimately powerful being cursing an entire species to such a horrible fate as well, but again, this is also reflected in nature - just look at what fate was in store for the dodo for simply having beautiful feathers. Life is unfair, though this doesn't really bode well for the argument that god is fair and just in the way he cursed mankind.
I suppose the thing that is most pressing topic in my mind as far as something an evil god would do is the concept that any folks who don't proclaim Jesus as their savior while having knowledge of him should suffer all eternity in torment (hell).
It seems like a tool to keep people in line, and an evil one at that. As I've told some here, my future mother in law cried to me about how she wants all of her daughters, and me, to be with her in heaven when we die. She's worried I will suffer an eternity in hell. Likewise, my mom (who suffers with mental illness), worries constantly for a family friend of ours because he converted to Wicca. If she ever knew I wasn't christian, I'm a bit worried that she would suffer a nervous breakdown.
Now, the way I was raised, god doesn't *actually* send people to hell. People choose that path when they reject god (as if it's their fault that they didn't pick the right team), and there's just no other place to be than to exist in hell.
(If you excuse the analogy) To me it seems a bit like being drugged, kidnapped, and to waken aboard a vessel out at sea. No one ever asked to be born, and no one ever asked to be out on this vessel. So, the captain (god) says, "You can do as I say, or you can swim in the drink... Sorry, but if you don't want to pledge allegiance to me, you can't be around me." Unfortunately, there isn't any other place to be but to be drowning in the ocean. Now, the captain could still take you to an island where you could live out the rest of your existence without drowning to death, or, he could even take you back to where he picked you up from - maybe even a different dock (via reincarnation). He won't, though. This doesn't sound like the actions of a very good person...
I guess, as a side note, what would make this even more confusing would be that it isn't even the captain that tells you this, but several letters from past crew mates compiled in a book supposedly inspired by what they felt the captain would have wanted to get across. It's supposed to tell you what you are supposed to do in such a confusing way that each crew mate on this ship has a different interpretation to what this book actually is trying to say. Moreover, there are plenty of other letters being passed around by people saying that *their* letters are actually from a different captain, or that there are more than one captains. Meanwhile, some say that there wasn't even a captain to begin with, and even if there was one, he isn't there now, and they should just steer the damn ship themselves before they crash into the shore.
(Edit: Now, the second paragraph above breaks from the analogy that the vessel is heaven. It's just to illustrate how unlikely it seems to me that the bible is the final end all be all holy text when there's so much competition from both "holy" and secular sources that it needs to compete with on a constant basis. Sorry for the side tangent!)
(back to the subject of hell) If the biblical interpretation that hell is a place of eternal suffering were a reality, however, this would be even worse. In my narrow and biased opinion, no one (not even serial killers) deserves to be tortured - let alone for all of eternity. What purpose does it serve? As a corrective action, to direct people into a positive path? What purpose could god have in making a place where people would forever suffer in unimaginable ways? Where is the good in this, let alone, how is this fair and just for a fair and just god?
(another edit: You know, on further reflection, I find it interesting that many people who are agnostic or atheist are so concerned with morals, and doing the right thing. It seems that while people are flawed, they do have an aspect of innate good in them, no?)
Very good! Your perspective is very logical from the things you have been taught, but when you start out with lots of unbiblical ideas you end up with good wrong, but logical conclusions. This will take time which I am happy to provide you and it is not all one sided because I am learning and can learn more from you. The problem is you will have to unlearn some things besides learning some things.
First: We need to understand the objective, since the objective will drive everything else. Most Christians do not understand the objective, so you might have been taught wrong.
Starting with God is Love (the epitome of Love), which means God is totally unselfish and is not doing stuff for His own sake, but is doing everything for the sake of man which is also God’s desire and might be referred to as His sake.
God would be doing or allowing everything to help humans who are just willing to accept His help to fulfill their earthly objective.
There is really nothing you (a created being) can “do” to help the Creator, but you can allow of your own free will God to help you, which is God’s desire, since God is a huge Giver of gifts.
Man’s objective is found in the God given Mission statement of: “Loving God (and secondly Loving others) with all your heart, soul, mind and energy”. In order to fulfill that mission, man must first obtain Godly type Love which will make man like God Himself in that man will Love like God Loves. Would becoming like God Himself not be the greatest gift we could get?
The objective is not to never ever sin, but to first obtain this Godly type Love.
There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), the big impossibility for us is to: be created with instinctive (programmed) Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also, if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real likely alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)
This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).
This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.
All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them, burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus (Luke 7: 36-50) and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).
In order to be forgiven of sin you must first sin, so sin is necessary but not desired.
This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing mature adult individuals to see, receive, give, experience, accept and know Godly type Love. All these tragedies provide opportunities for Love, but that does not mean we go around causing “opportunities”, since we are to be ceasing these opportunities (there are plenty of opportunities) to show/experience Love for us and others.
You do not have to believe the Adam and Eve story is true to get lots of good messages from it. Most people go through a time in which they ask: “How could a Loving God allow such a thing”, which means “why does God not start us all out in a Garden type situation without: needy people, limited resources, death, and questions about His existence?”
What we should do is thank Adam and Eve for showing us and them that what we might consider the ideal situation is a lousy situation for man to fulfill his earthly objective. Adam and Eve as our very best all human representatives did not fulfill the objective while sinless in the Garden and really could not. The situation after sinning outside the Garden did provide a way to fulfill the objective.
Answer me this: Would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey God’s commands (the Garden) or in a place where your eternal close relationship with God is dependent on your just accepting God’s charity (where you are today)?
Realize also: Death is not bad in and of itself, but is the way good people go home and the way bad people stop doing bad stuff.
Anything specific you want me to address from here?
