Living a lie

[seashale76]

I'm beginning to see a theme here. One, you don't like any of the Christian answers. Two, you keep mentioning absolute morality and give the impression that it's a bad thing. Is that really what your OP is about?

The fatal flaw of someone who doesn't believe in absolute morality and rants against it is that they have no basis for complaint. Moral relativists can claim nothing as absolutely wrong because sin doesn't exist to you- it's all about how one feels and personal opinions, and that varies. You can't really fault the Christians here for doing something to your friend that they might do and haven't done because your friend is living a lie so they can't react in any way to the situation you present, yet I don't see you holding your friend to the same standard and he is lying to himself and others. It's all a theoretical assumption at this point.

 

[DarkProphet]

Of course. In the Original Post you said:

As others have pointed out, this could jeprodize the integrity of the program, perhaps even the church itself. Morally speaking, it would seem that he would be selfish to continue "living a lie" for the sake that it is a huge part of his life thus he won't leave. Correct me if I am mistaken.

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without him the program would collapse. I cannot really comment on whether or not he jeopardizes the integrity of the program though.

 

[Bro_Sam]

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without him the program would collapse.

Then let it collapse.

I cannot really comment on whether or not he jeopardizes the integrity of the program though.

If he's not a Christian, then he's jeopardizing the integrity of the program.

 

[DarkProphet]

I'm beginning to see a theme here. One, you don't like any of the Christian answers.

Actually I liked your answer.

Two, you keep mentioning absolute morality and give the impression that it's a bad thing. Is that really what your OP is about?

It's more about the bad situation created by Christians.

The fatal flaw of someone who doesn't believe in absolute morality and rants against it is that they have no basis for complaint. Moral relativists can claim nothing as absolutely wrong because sin doesn't exist to you- it's all about how one feels and personal opinions, and that varies.

With a different interpretation of the Bible you could justify murder, and you know what, people have. That's the problem with moral absolutism, it doesn't really exist. You only think it does because you default to a moral code someone else set for you so you never have to think about it.

You can't really fault the Christians here for doing something to your friend that they might do and haven't done because your friend is living a lie so they can't react in any way to the situation you present, yet I don't see you holding your friend to the same standard and he is lying to himself and others. It's all a theoretical assumption at this point.

Unfortunately it is reasonable to assume they would react badly given what is known. As for my friend, yes he is living a lie but didn't plan it that way. He WAS a Christian for a long time and went into the program as a Christian and interacted with his family as a Christian. After he questioned his beliefs he lost his faith but everyone around him still assumes he is a Christian.

Does he deserve to be shunned by his family and the church for believing different from them?

Do the kids deserve the emotional abuse for believing different from their parents?

 

[Bro_Sam]

It's more about the bad situation created by Christians.

How is it a bad situation created by Christians, when your friend is the one who chose to lie, chooses to be in a continuing state of breaking his covenant with the church, continues to jeopardize this program, and continues to show contempt for the church, its program, and his family?

How does your friend manage to escape any responsibility?

With a different interpretation of the Bible you could justify murder, and you know what, people have.

Actually, they haven't. They've only claimed that the Bible justifies murder.

That's the problem with moral absolutism, it doesn't really exist.

Ah, so then you believe there are times when it is OK to molest little children?

Unfortunately it is reasonable to assume they would react badly given what is known.

Really? You think people will react badly to being lied to and jeopardizing a program that is important to them for his own personal gain? Wow, how unreasonable they're being.

That's called facing the consequences of your actions.

As for my friend, yes he is living a lie but didn't plan it that way. He WAS a Christian for a long time

Correction: he was pretending to be a Christian for a long time. You cannot be a Christian and then not be a Christian. The Bible is very clear that once you are born again, you cannot lose the new nature you have received.

and went into the program as a Christian and interacted with his family as a Christian. After he questioned his beliefs he lost his faith but everyone around him still assumes he is a Christian.

They assume he's still a Christian because he's lying to them and telling them that he's still a Christian.

Does he deserve to be shunned by his family and the church for believing different from them?

First of all, you don't know that they'll do that.

Second, yes, he does deserve to be removed from the church for lying to them and breaking the covenant he made with them.

Do the kids deserve the emotional abuse for believing different from their parents?

First, let's drop the silly "believing different (sic)" argument. You know very well that the issue is not his belief, but his continued actions.

Second, you don't know that he will face "emotional abuse".

Third, yes, he does deserve to be punished and face the consequences of his actions.

 

[seashale76]

Unfortunately it is reasonable to assume they would react badly given what is known. As for my friend, yes he is living a lie but didn't plan it that way. He WAS a Christian for a long time and went into the program as a Christian and interacted with his family as a Christian. After he questioned his beliefs he lost his faith but everyone around him still assumes he is a Christian.

Does he deserve to be shunned by his family and the church for believing different from them?

Do the kids deserve the emotional abuse for believing different from their parents?

My apologies for misunderstanding.

You know I don't see it that way. However, I don't think we can broadbrush with all of these kids either. Sometimes our fear of something is much worse than what actually happens. I can only speak for myself though. Once the fallout happens, it isn't so bad. I'm not saying that what may happen won't be bad, just that our imagination of what may happen tends to be worse.

 

[DarkProphet]

My apologies for misunderstanding.

No, thank you for being so patient and understanding.

You know I don't see it that way.

I do, and so do they.

However, I don't think we can broadbrush with all of these kids either. Sometimes our fear of something is much worse than what actually happens. I can only speak for myself though. Once the fallout happens, it isn't so bad. I'm not saying that what may happen won't be bad, just that our imagination of what may happen tends to be worse.

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't take away from the fact that they face fear and a possible threat because of the beliefs of the people around them.

 

[2 King]

It's a bit of a catch-22 because without him the program would collapse.

I see, so you're friend would be left with two options: Taking the risk and letting it fall apart. And if it falls apart it could harm his conscience believeing that it could have been prevented.
or
Living a lie out of his moral standards for the sake of keeping this program together.

In a Christian POV, I provide the following solution: If the reason that he is still in the program is for the sake of the up-keeping of the program, then he should let it fall apart. Why? (again from a Christian POV) Simply because God, [in all his goodness] will sustain the program if it be his will. In some cases, if someone really wants to help, the best thing to do is stay away. I believe this case applies to your friend. That he should stay away, for we are told we shouldn't be counseled by unbelievers for it "corrupts good morals".

 

[dluvs2trvl]

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