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Little bit of a

Discussion in 'Married Couples' started by DZoolander, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    non politically correct observation.

    This lady I’ve known since HS spends all her time talking about how this country “desperately hates its women and daughters” - and men in general in those terms.

    A few months ago she told me about how her young daughter is scared to be a girl and doesn’t feel safe being one.

    Now the young girl has come out as trans.
     
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  2. JustRachel

    JustRachel He welcomed me back! <3 Supporter

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    Very sad. So many parents pushing their own agendas onto their children. :(
     
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  3. snoochface

    snoochface Meet the new boss -- same as the old boss.

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    Surprise surprise..... :(
     
  4. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    :(

    What may be even worse is how this country (mis)treats trans people.
     
  5. EmmaCat

    EmmaCat ALL Heartbeats matter Supporter Angels Team CF Ambassadors

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    Well, I don't know, but this country makes me proud to be here, and I'm happily married to a cop and perfectly happy with what genitalia I was born with.

    I will pray for your friend.

    All good things
    Emmy
     
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  6. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

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    I find that extreme. Yes, at times women are discounted. Hated? Please. Enlightenment can come to anyone if they strive for it, and are willing. It drives me nuts that people can't see the person that is a jerk compared to just the gender. Yes, we have for the most part come that far. Give credit where credit is due. Life is never a 100%.

    If that is the message this poor child isn't getting? It's not wonder she isn't sure which way to go. Neither is safe (male or female). She will go trans to see where the 'safe' is. Hopefully the child will mature and have a mind of her own. Parents discount their messages at times.

    There is a difference between those that struggle with this issues, and those that get the issues when life opinion's by those they trust are forced upon them. Dad's opinions can cause the same type of damage IMO. Her mother maybe a huge part of that confusion, and today you just can't tell people that. Your called names if you do.
     
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Are you referring to discrimination?

    Or the treatment that puts them on hormone blockers and inhibits their natural development before they are of an age to even comprehend the life-long ramifications?

    If someone chooses to transition once they are older and can make a choice, that is their right. And they should not be mistreated.

    However, I do not think that children can make informed medical decisions, sexual decisions, etc. at a young age.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  8. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Brown university did a survey study that looked at "sudden onset" gender dysphoria. This looked at the trend of people who had not expressed dysphoria before, and who had often completed puberty, suddenly experiencing dysphoria.

    The study noted that this tended to happen in friend groups, and after increased exposure to social media.

    It noted a high rate of existing mental illness diagnosis prior to dysphoria.

    It also noted child-parent conflict may play a role:

    Emerging hypotheses include the possibility of a potential new subcategory of gender dysphoria (referred to as rapid-onset gender dysphoria) that has not yet been clinically validated and the possibility of social influences and maladaptive coping mechanisms. Parent-child conflict may also explain some of the findings.

    From the abstract:


    There were 256 parent-completed surveys that met study criteria. The AYA children described were predominantly natal female (82.8%) with a mean age of 16.4 years at the time of survey completion and a mean age of 15.2 when they announced a transgender-identification. Per parent report, 41% of the AYAs had expressed a non-heterosexual sexual orientation before identifying as transgender. Many (62.5%) of the AYAs had reportedly been diagnosed with at least one mental health disorder or neurodevelopmental disability prior to the onset of their gender dysphoria (range of the number of pre-existing diagnoses 0–7). In 36.8% of the friendship groups described, parent participants indicated that the majority of the members became transgender-identified. Parents reported subjective declines in their AYAs’ mental health (47.2%) and in parent-child relationships (57.3%) since the AYA “came out” and that AYAs expressed a range of behaviors that included: expressing distrust of non-transgender people (22.7%); stopping spending time with non-transgender friends (25.0%); trying to isolate themselves from their families (49.4%), and only trusting information about gender dysphoria from transgender sources (46.6%). Most (86.7%) of the parents reported that, along with the sudden or rapid onset of gender dysphoria, their child either had an increase in their social media/internet use, belonged to a friend group in which one or multiple friends became transgender-identified during a similar timeframe, or both


    After receiving blowback the university self censored the study. But it is still found with a revision at the link above, and in original form if you look at the correction section.


    Here is an article describing the blowback:

    Brown University Censors Gender Dysmorphia Study
     
  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Yes....I mean the discrimination. This is such a touchy subject - and I'm a bit regretful about even posting a comment. But....I already have, so I might as well try to clarify what I meant.

    I don't mean "discrimination" in the way of not being sold a cake (just as an example of discrimination) but the violence that surrounds the trans community.

    Quoting from linked article:
    In 2018, advocates tracked at least 26 deaths of transgender people in the U.S. due to fatal violence, the majority of whom were Black transgender women. These victims were killed by acquaintances, partners and strangers, some of whom have been arrested and charged, while others have yet to be identified. Some of these cases involve clear anti-transgender bias. In others, the victim’s transgender status may have put them at risk in other ways, such as forcing them into unemployment, poverty, homelessness and/or survival sex work.

    While the details of these cases differ, it is clear that fatal violence disproportionately affects transgender women of color, and that the intersections of racism, sexism, homophobia, biphobia and transphobia conspire to deprive them of employment, housing, healthcare and other necessities, barriers that make them vulnerable. HRC Foundation’s “Dismantling a Culture of Violence” report demonstrates how anti-transgender stigma, denial of opportunity and increased risk factors compound to create a culture of violence -- and provides clear ways that each of us can directly make an impact to make our society a safer place for transgender people. ~ Violence Against the Transgender Community in 2019 | Human Rights Campaign
     
  10. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    There is discrimination and violence committed against the trans community, and it is wrong. Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

    This thread seems to center around the question of whether there are social factors, including parental factors, that play into the onset of dysphoria.
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Right. I was just commenting that this - most likely - isn't going to be a viable solution for the problem this mother framed (about how "this country desperately hates women and daughters").
     
  12. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Oh, well yes, certainly not. Good point.
     
  13. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    I'll be honest - I find trans people to be kinda crazy. I'm pretty open minded about a lot of things - but that's one I just don't get.

    Like, gay people. I can understand gay people. I look at women and find them attractive. I love my wife. If you're a gay dude - you look at men and find them attractive. You love your husband. If you're a lesbian, you look at women and find them attractive. You love your wife. So I get it. it's not a completely foreign idea to me coming from left field. I may not share those specific feelings - but I understand the feelings themselves and can empathize.

    Trans people - I don't understand what they're talking about.

    You were born a man, but always "felt like a woman"? What does that even mean? Are you saying that being a man feels different than being a woman? How do you know? How could you know? Are you saying that my fundamental perceptions and the way it feels to be "me" is more similar to Tall73 than MkGal? How would you know? How could anyone know?

    I know only one experience - that of my own. I have no idea what the experience of walking through life as Tall73 is - nor MkGal. I have no ability to say with any kind of certainty that the qualia of my experiences are more similar to his than hers. I will never know. So to that end - I'd argue I don't "know" what it's like to be a "man" in any meaningful sense. I may know what it's like to be me - and have the expectations of masculinity put upon me...but how do I know that would be any different than if MkGal were put into the same situation from a very early age?

    To me the whole issue is just mind boggling and full of assumptions that seem (to me at least) to be just grabbed out of thin air. Do you mean you actually "feel" like a woman? And if so, how do you know? Or do you mean that you wish it were socially acceptable to dress like a woman and fit the female archetype of behavior? What do you mean?

    But it's also one of those topics that you can't even ask. Because God forbid you even ask a question - you're "contributing to someone's suicide". So in other words - unless you offer complete and utter acceptance of every potentially bizarre proclamation - you're likely guilty of goading someone into killing themselves. EVERYTHING is like that with that group.

    Like my friend. A few months back she was talking about "rape culture" and how men just abuse women left and right...and how she could understand if women went lesbian in the face of such a threat.

    I made a post back saying "Well, actually, according to The Advocate, do you know which group actually suffers the highest rate of domestic violence? And it's not even close. It's lesbians. Supposedly they're sitting at around 50%...whereas in heterosexual couples it sits at around 19-20%."

    What was her response? "Don't say that here - my daughter is watching and this will freak her out."

    Really? So it's better to let her walk around with some mistaken belief that men are just an intrinsic threat - than to realize there are just jerks running around there in all groups?

    Apparently so.
     
  14. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    We hate our women and daughters so much that we protected them from fighting in every major war we were in? Wasn’t Jesus the one who said that greater love has no man than to lay his life down for his friends?
     
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