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Literally?
- Thread starter mlepfitjw
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There is a difference between being converted and being a follower of Jesus Christ. If i'm wrong about that maybe 5 people i've ever met are saved. I'm not one of them. Matthew chapters 5, 6 and 7 says by the measure we judge others, that is the measure with which we'll be judged. Matthew 7:11 is heaven. Have we ever met a Christian who didn't ask Jesus Christ for eternal Salvation? If we convert to Christianity and ask Jesus Christ for eternal Salvation, will he give us a snake?
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- Dec 29, 2002
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The word hate that is used does not mean we are to hold malice or bitterness or anger toward our families. Often it just means love less. You put Him first you dont have divided loyalties.
Ask Him what He meant. Hes real no? In side us no? Did He aka GOD through Christ say you can ask me anything.. and He will always answer. He can not lie.. just BELIEVE and KNOW He hears you.
Ask Him what He meant. Hes real no? In side us no? Did He aka GOD through Christ say you can ask me anything.. and He will always answer. He can not lie.. just BELIEVE and KNOW He hears you.
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Tony B
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This simply means that we should always choose to go God's way even if that goes against our own will and wants, and those of others, including those of our family.
Adam, of course, failed to do that when he gave in to Eve's deception, preferring to please her rather than please God, their Creator. So, in effect, he preferred to despise God and His commands, and love his own life and that of Eve's to death.
Adam, of course, failed to do that when he gave in to Eve's deception, preferring to please her rather than please God, their Creator. So, in effect, he preferred to despise God and His commands, and love his own life and that of Eve's to death.
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ViaCrucis
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Jesus frequently employs strong, stark hyperbolic language to make His points. To "hate" mother and father here is not Jesus saying that His followers must violate the most rudimentary commands, such as that we honor our parents, and that we love everyone without condition (which Christ Himself says is part of the Greatest Commandment).
The point is one of contrast; the cross of discipleship is a burden that we must carry in this world, and with it brings many struggles and agonies. In the world of the 1st century, whether we are talking about Jewish culture or Greco-Roman culture, family was everything. Even as an adult one would be honor-bound to one's family, for example men were to get married and sire children and continue the family lineage, and women were to get married and make babies for their husbands. Parents were intricately involved in marriage for their children, arranged marriages which benefited and strengthened familial ties and the family's reputation were the norm. Jesus is saying that as His disciple one's highest allegiance is to Him, the cross of discipleship means choosing Him, even over family.
So, for example, we have a number of stories from Christian antiquity where both men and women chose to devote themselves to chastity and celibacy in service of Christ, and in so doing they were rejected by their families--this is especially true of women. Men had far more autonomy in the ancient world than women did, and so for a woman to refuse to get married because her father commanded it, and instead to devote herself to a life of a Christian (understand that this is in the context of e.g. Pagan parents here) she was risking everything. We see this very sort of thing playing out in the lives of early Christians, for example in the diary of St. Perpetua, an early 3rd century Christian martyr, we read in her own words how she was the noble daughter of a well-to-do Roman, but that she converted to Christianity and was undergoing instruction as a catechumen; she was arrested and thrown in prison along with Felicity a slave. Perpetua's father came to her in prison, demanding that she recant her faith and return to Paganism, but she refused, and both of these women, with a handful of other Christians also arrested, encouraged one another--and for their devotion to Christ received their martyr's crown.
Christ says that if we are to be His disciples, He does not take second or third place, but rather He is first place in our lives. Our lives belong to Him as His disciples. Our cross may take many different forms, even literally. But in all things we are called to discipleship, to the carrying of our cross, Christ remains Lord in all things. Even if it means becoming "the scum of the earth" (1 Corinthians 4:13).
-CryptoLutheran
The point is one of contrast; the cross of discipleship is a burden that we must carry in this world, and with it brings many struggles and agonies. In the world of the 1st century, whether we are talking about Jewish culture or Greco-Roman culture, family was everything. Even as an adult one would be honor-bound to one's family, for example men were to get married and sire children and continue the family lineage, and women were to get married and make babies for their husbands. Parents were intricately involved in marriage for their children, arranged marriages which benefited and strengthened familial ties and the family's reputation were the norm. Jesus is saying that as His disciple one's highest allegiance is to Him, the cross of discipleship means choosing Him, even over family.
So, for example, we have a number of stories from Christian antiquity where both men and women chose to devote themselves to chastity and celibacy in service of Christ, and in so doing they were rejected by their families--this is especially true of women. Men had far more autonomy in the ancient world than women did, and so for a woman to refuse to get married because her father commanded it, and instead to devote herself to a life of a Christian (understand that this is in the context of e.g. Pagan parents here) she was risking everything. We see this very sort of thing playing out in the lives of early Christians, for example in the diary of St. Perpetua, an early 3rd century Christian martyr, we read in her own words how she was the noble daughter of a well-to-do Roman, but that she converted to Christianity and was undergoing instruction as a catechumen; she was arrested and thrown in prison along with Felicity a slave. Perpetua's father came to her in prison, demanding that she recant her faith and return to Paganism, but she refused, and both of these women, with a handful of other Christians also arrested, encouraged one another--and for their devotion to Christ received their martyr's crown.
Christ says that if we are to be His disciples, He does not take second or third place, but rather He is first place in our lives. Our lives belong to Him as His disciples. Our cross may take many different forms, even literally. But in all things we are called to discipleship, to the carrying of our cross, Christ remains Lord in all things. Even if it means becoming "the scum of the earth" (1 Corinthians 4:13).
-CryptoLutheran
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Randy777
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Context to me:
Those that followed Jesus in Israel and in His day would have been kicked out of the synagogue possibly losing friends, family and even employment. But their reward was eternal life. Those that followed Him loved Him/God more than all those other things. Even though their family might hate and reject them because they followed Jesus they would still have love for their family. Jesus stated even to love your enemies. So the context of "hate" in this case is to follow Jesus and reject those that opposed Him.
Jesus also stated:
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
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Makes sense to me. I hate that Im not a better person and I hate it that not everyone loves Christ. Hate is just a strong dislike of something. We are called to speak out and stand for what is right. One day if we make it long enough we will have to part with our lives by admitting we believe. I'm not ashamed and I'm willing to give all for Christ.
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Toro
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It is not we that understand His words but His Spirit that reveals the meaning of His words to us.. so yes, for humanity in and of itself to understand His words it IS that difficult.
If those who walked with Him physically, did NOT understand His words UNTIL they had the Holy Spirit in them... or He directly explained it to them... how can we expect anyone else to understand something until the Spirit reveals it to them too?
Matthew 16:17
It is not we who in our intellect can claim to understand God, but by His gift of revelation that we may truly know and understand Him.
We on our own... can do nothing and if we achieve nothing... what is there to boast of?
We all need to be reminded at times that any understanding we have.... was given to us.
To he that more is given, more is expected.
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Let me restate it for you, OK...?
Which is going to be, "If anyone when he does not first come to me, or when he or she at first comes to me", etc, etc, etc...
You do not first come to Him as a finshed product, etc, and if you do not at first come to Him hating everything and everyone, and yourself and your own life, etc, then you have not truly, not truly, even begin to truly "come to him yet", etc, and I believe that is more what He was saying, or was the point He was trying to make, etc...
That you have not even truly come to Him yet if you are not in that state when you have first come to Him yet, etc...
You do not "stay there" though, but it is how you will first come to Him, if you have truly first come to Him yet...
I think He was also trying to make the point about some who only thought or think they have come to Him (yet), or only thought or think they have even truly ever even had or started a real true relationship with Him yet, etc, that there are a lot of "fakes" and fakers out there, and part of His point was to identify those ones or weed them out, etc...
But he certainly didn't mean that you hang onto or keep or maintain that "hate" after you have come to Him yet, etc, or then, or at, or and or especially "after that time", and/or especially "long after that time", etc, that is not why He said it and is not what He meant, etc, the hate all must give way to love in time, etc, but those who did not first reach that point of "hate", etc, and very intense, very, very intense "hate", etc, and were not at first led and drawn to Him because of it, and did not stay or stick with Him after it (the carrying your cross part, etc) were never really truly drawn to Him to begin with or in the first place, etc, and never really even started or even began with Him to begin with, etc, but eventually the hate is supposed to give way to love, etc, or be given up on in exchange for love, etc...
The hate part is just only how you first come to Him, etc, and in time it must (also) give way to love if you are or ever were truly one of His also, etc...
The hate that first initially brings you to Him is not meant to be held onto or kept or maintained indefinitely, etc, and that is also the mark of one of His true disciples later on or afterward, etc, if the hate does not in time give way to love, then you were never truly His or one of His to begin with also, etc, but the hate initially brings you to Him to start, etc... The despairing or life, and hating all and everyone and everything very immensely or intensely at the start, etc... But if it does not eventually all eventually give way to love, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, and stuff I already said, etc, for that is also the mark of one who is truly one of His, etc, that it must eventually or in time give way to love, etc, or you were never truly one of His either, etc, etc, etc...
Anyway, Hope that helps,
God Bless!
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God cannot give us things that are contrary to His will, plan, or His Word.
For example: We read in Scripture:
“They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.” (Mark 10:37).
After some other words by Jesus, our Lord said:
“But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.” (Mark 10:40).
Eternal life is not a super power or a magical wish granted to us like from a genie. Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ. Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life. So we have to abide in the Son in order to have eternal life. How an we have an assurance that we know the Lord (i.e. that we are truly abiding in Him)? 1 John 2:3 essentially says that we know the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. 1 John 2:4 says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. What truth is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the LIFE (John 14:6). So we have to abide in Christ in order to have eternal life. We cannot just ask for it and it is forever ours if we fail to meet the conditions in God's Word to abide in Christ who is the source of eternal life. Sin can separate a person from the Lord, and a person cannot be saved without having the Son.
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You can still love your wife and hate her for some aspect that is not ideal.
You can love your life and hate it that it does not measure up to perfection.
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Except it is not talking about love mixed in with hate, it is talking about very intense hatred, at first, that must lead you to Him, and then become or transform into, or must in time give way to Love, and pure true Love, etc...
Any kind of hate mixed in with love is not really pure true Love, etc...
You must eventually completely abandon all the hate in order for it to really be true Love, or even be called Love, etc...
Which is the mark of a true disciple as well, once such a one is fully matured, etc...
But the hate initially brings you to Him, or draws you to or towards Him, etc...
But must in time all be given up (on), "all of it", etc, in time, for pure and truly true "Love", etc...
Agape (perfect) Love has no hate, etc, none at all, etc, no not even a sliver or shred, etc...
And a Love that is once and for all perfected, finally and in time, etc, is also the earmark or truly true, or fully matured and fully grown up in Christ, true apostle or disciple, etc...
A fully and truly true matured one, etc...
Has no more hate at all, etc, no, no longer any more whatsoever, but started out with it, etc...
If your still harboring and/or feeling any kind of hate at all, even in the slightest, you have not yet been perfected, or been made perfect in Love, etc, "yet", etc...
And that might not even be worthy of being called "Love" by God maybe, etc...
God Bless!
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