Listening to Hillsong

[FutureAndAHope]

This is not about beating on a church domination. Did I come on here and discuss "all Pentecostal churches", I don't even know what you're talking about to be honest. And you say, "As for your example of a guy dancing around in underware, that is not of God, but I bet the poor people in the church did not know what to do so just kept on praising God in the midst of it." This is just none sense, I'm sorry. I wouldn't call them "poor people" when they willfully stayed and watched that mockery so called a church event going on there. Instead I would quote Charles H. Spurgeon and say "A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats."

Jesus wouldn't continue "worshipping" with them and He would have rebuked them, what most "true" Christians could have done and maybe some did do that... is walk out, just walk out and KNOW that if a "so called CHURCH" approves and puts together such a show, that IT IS NOT FROM GOD, BUT FROM THE DEVIL HIMSELF. Let us not deceive ourselves just because "we want to please our flesh and listen to their music, simply because we like it." But let us honour God by HATING WHAT GOD HATES AND LOVING WHAT GOD LOVES...

Maybe you , if in the same situation would have stood up, but it is not always that simple. It is hard for people to judge, why a person does some thing. The pressure to remain silent would have been great. Even for pastors if some nut got to the stage and started dancing, you don't want to cause offence. God is a God of peace, not division.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I think if you have a strong conviction to stop listening to Hillsong, that's fine, for you do it to the honour of God. By the same token, those who do listen to Hillsong as part of their worship, that's also fine, because they too do it to the honour of God.

See Romans 14

Hi,

that is 100% God's spirit in all of this. He showed me the same thing before I posted my first post. Giving me the verse.

Romans 14:3-4 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I was not sure what to do with it. But it is a key point, we should not be fighting one another. But rather acknowledging that what we choose to do we do to glorify God.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Even when Jesus prayed people fell to the ground.

Anyone falling on the ground when Jesus touched them resulting in uncontrolled shaking was 100% demon possession always

Mark 9 that you quoted was a possessed man, you are making my point.

1 Kings you quoted is they probably went to their knees. This does not indicate falling backwards and shaking and yelling and all the stuff we see.

John 18 where they fell down was not a good thing per say. It was not falling under the annointing.

Also the greek word used did not mean to fall back as in what you see in the churches.

ἀπέρχομαι

1. to go away, depart
   
   1. to go away in order to follow any one, go after him, to follow his party, follow him as a leader
      
2. to go away
   
   1. of departing evils and sufferings
      
      
   2. of good things taken away from one
      
      
   3. of an evanescent state of things
      

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Anyone falling on the ground when Jesus touched them resulting in uncontrolled shaking was 100% demon possession always

Mark 9 that you quoted was a possessed man, you are making my point.

1 Kings you quoted is they probably went to their knees. This does not indicate falling backwards and shaking and yelling and all the stuff we see.

John 18 where they fell down was not a good thing per say. It was not falling under the annointing.

Also the greek word used did not mean to fall back as in what you see in the churches.

ἀπέρχομαι

1. to go away, depart
   1. to go away in order to follow any one, go after him, to follow his party, follow him as a leader
2. to go away
   1. of departing evils and sufferings
      
      
   2. of good things taken away from one
      
      
   3. of an evanescent state of things

I am not going to post on this again, as I see no point is fighting.

But John 18 says fell (G4098) to the ground. (G5476) regardless of how you say it they fell down to the ground.

As I mentioned of the revivals of the past centuries, people were healed as they fell down, the presence of Jesus does cause people to fall as we see in John 18.

As for myself I have never fallen down, in a church service, but I don't discredit those who have experienced God when going so.

But the realm of the Spirit is very murky, the distinction between a demon, or an angel, or God's presence, is very hard to distinguish. The reason is both demons and God speak through the believers mind and emotions, and sound/feel identical. Feelings that are very positive can come from demons, with their messages, these demonic messages may appear to be God. A person who is receiving from God, can quickly move into a demonic message if they are not careful. This is a big problem for the Pentecostal movement, and for Spirit filled Christians in general. A well meaning person, a believer can unwittingly give a demonic message.

Now having said all that, I say as a warning to the posters here, you say "You felt God", that "God let you know", be very careful, following such dictates, especially condemning ones can be the utterance of demons.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

But John 18 says fell (G4098) to the ground. (G5476) regardless of how you say it they fell down to the ground.

It does make a difference and a huge one at that.

A well meaning person, a believer can unwittingly give a demonic message.

Exactly my point.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

It does make a difference and a huge one at that.



Exactly my point.

The fact that a person can unwittingly give access to demons does not mean that they should not seek spiritual gifts Paul in two places says we ALL should earnestly desire spiritual gifts.

1Co 12:31 But desire earnestly the greater gifts. And moreover a most excellent way show I unto you.

He goes not to say love is the way. But note what he says:

1Co 14:1 Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

The church as a whole should be operating in spiritual giftings, as the following passage states.

1Co 12:28-30 First, God chose some people to be apostles and prophets and teachers for the church. But he also chose some to work miracles or heal the sick or help others or be leaders or speak different kinds of languages. Not everyone is an apostle. Not everyone is a prophet. Not everyone is a teacher. Not everyone can work miracles. Not everyone can heal the sick. Not everyone can speak different kinds of languages. Not everyone can tell what these languages mean.

I had a rant earlier, where I said a gripe I have with conservative churches is that they don't persue the spiritual gifts, as Paul tells us to do, but rather discourages their use, calling it demonic. To discourage the gifts is to go against God's word.

These gifts are still needed, the first time a person was healed in Jesus name through a prayer I prayed, many people in the town heard of it, and the knowledge of the healing power of Jesus increased, thus the knowledge of the gospel. Other times, it has caused Muslims to want to leave their Muslim faith, when they received healing. If we don't seek the gifts people have less reason to leave their past behind.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

Now my question is this, thankfully my church does not sing any of their songs, but this bothers me so much that I always think what if they sing one of their songs this Sunday?! If my church does, should I say something? Just the thought of it really bothers me.

If a song has solid Christian lyrics and a nice melody, does it matter what church or denomination it was originally written in? My guess is that most people don't know the background of most of the classic hymns. Some use melodies that were not written by Christians. Others were written by members of denominations that some people would reject and have nothing to do with. For example, there are some Christians who believe that the Roman Catholic Church is not of God yet I've never once heard one of them call for a boycott of Silent Night because the lyrics were written by a Catholic priest.

Thankfully Christians in the past have not shut down the creation of new Christian music. What we have now from the past are the best of the best. The gems that the church decided were worthy of remembering and singing over and over have been recorded for us. A young man (who was dissatisfied with the current songs and encouraged by his father to write better ones) is credited with writing 750 hymns. We remember Isaac Watts for Joy to the World, Come Ye that Love the Lord, O God our Help in Ages Past, When I Survey the Wondrous Cross, and Alas and Did My Savior Bleed. The reality is that hundreds (the majority) of hymns he wrote are long forgotten. We remember the best of his hundreds of hymns. Charles Wesley is credited with thousands of songs and perhaps a dozen or so of those are still in common use across various denominations. What we have now as classic hymns of the church are the result of centuries of distillation and keeping the best ones.

Most of the songs being written today will slowly be forgotten. But there will be some gems that (should the Lord tarry) will be sung generations from now. Those churches and denominations that are convinced that only the old tried and true songs are worthy of being sung will probably not be contributing to the future musical treasures of the church. It is those churches and denominations that are willing to write new music (most of which will be forgotten over time) that will contribute to the future hymnals of the church.

I'm sure that there are some Christians that might research the history of each and every lyricist and composer to insure that they were doctrinally sound Christians before being willing to sing a song. However, my impression is that most Christians simply look at the lyrics and listen to the melody to decide if they are willing to sing a song.

 

[alongingformore]

I'm glad you can see their evil. I noticed in my own church that when they sing these songs that it's always 4 songs together. One song is God is great and you feel happy, the next one is your a sinner and you feel bad, the next is God loves you so you feel loved and the next god is the boss so we feel helpless. In the space of 15 mins, I have expieriances 4 different emotions. I believe it's this mind controlling bullwhip that gives the pastors the power of suggestion, aka alter calls, crying out to God, slaying in the spirit, talking jibberish but believing it's tongues etc etc.
Not only that, but as you stated, these worship groups use demonic symbols in their lighting.
You see you can't fool the conscience mind but the sub conscious picks up on these without you knowing.

When I told my church member that bethel and hillsong etc are false teaching pastors and their music isn't true worship, I was told by a Christian deep in her faith not to say it to the other girls in case I offend them. What faith is she so deep in I asked myself?
I think the baptist church is great for stuff like that because they have their own hymn book and it praises god just like He asked, write and sing new hymns to Him.
What Hillsong and the rest do is nothing different than the music awards. Same costumes, symbols and lighting. They slap a Jesus tag on their shows to reap millions from people. Not only that, the flock who follow them are deceived and are in danger of judgment. Come out from them my people!

Whilst listening to worship music isn't bad in and of itself, you have to ask, if the guys who make this music are false Christians, then what spirit is exactly behind their music? It's clear to me as day that it's the same spirit that's part of the illuminati ridden music industry today. You wouldn't by or listen to that krap, so should you continue to listen to bethel and hillsong?

People you need to remember that Satan will not come into church dressed like a demon. He masquerades as an angel of light. He is the angel of music with all his harps and and inner music symbols and pipes. He makes it obvious to Christians that he is behind the music industry but is not going to make it obvious in church. And if you say things like, hillsong and bethel use the name of Jesus!, well when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness, Satan quoted scripture. DO NOT BE FOOLED BY HILLSONG AND THE LIKES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF GOD.

You've stated some rather bold claims here, and I just thought I'd pitch in with some thoughts I had while reading your response...

While I agree with you to an extent about the repetitiveness that Hillsong are renowned for with their set music agenda and the style of songs in a sequence, I'd also like to encourage you to think about the heart behind their intention. I strongly disagree with your comment about the "mind controlling bullwhip" that you feel the vibe their worship gives off, and would encourage you not to speak so bitterly about a style of worship that other believers find works for them. While I wouldn't choose to go to a Hillsong church every Sunday to worship, I am not against going along to a service of theirs every now and then to worship God and just to gather a different way of worship that I might not perhaps be used to.

I'm also intrigued to find out what you mean by their apparent 'demonic symbols in the lighting' ?

I think we all have our different tastes and preferences when it comes to styles of music and how we approach God. And I think so long as our hearts are in the right place, then that's all that matters. We are not one to judge the hearts of those who get up on stage and lead sung worship each week - that's up to God, not us. We are simply there to love each other and worship the living God together.