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Liquid Water Once on Mars

armed2010

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http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/03/02/mars.findings/index.html

NASA scientists say the Mars rovers have found what they were looking for -- hard evidence that the red planet was once "soaking wet."

"We have concluded the rocks here were once soaked in liquid water," said Steve Squyres of Cornell University. He's the principal investigator for the science instruments on Opportunity and its twin rover, Spirit.

"The second question we've tried to answer: Were these rocks altered by liquid water? We believe definitively, yes," Squyres said.

Squyres and other NASA officials made the announcement at NASA headquarters in Washington, after several days of giving tantalizing hints that something significant had been discovered.

"Three and a half years ago, in July 2000, we were on stage here to talk about sending two rovers to get evidence of past water. NASA and its international partners have turned those dreams to reality," said Ed Weiler, NASA associate administrator for space science.

Scientists used instruments on board the golf cart-sized rovers to study the composition of the rocks and soil on the planet. The rocks' physical appearance, plus the detection of sulfates, make the case for a watery history, and more important, an environment that could have been hospitable to life.

While reporters pushed the scientists to come up with a "when" for the existence of water on Mars, Squyres said it was very difficult to infer an age simply by looking at pictures. He said a physical examination of samples would be the only way to to get close to a time frame.

Squyres did offer a couple of scenarios on what might have happened that led to the current discoveries:

One is that there was a volcanic eruption, possibly many eruptions, and volcanic ash settled out onto the Martian surface. Subsequently, water could have percolated through the ground, altering the ash to the chemical composition it has today.

Another possibility, said Squyres, is that there was a salty sea at the Meridiani Planum location, perhaps with currents, possibly even waves. As the water evaporated, the salt would settle out.

"Both are fundamentally possible," said Squyres. "But we may never know."

Spirit and Opportunity were sent to opposite sides of the planet with the possibility of investigating different types of terrain. Spirit, the first rover to arrive on January 3, landed near the Gusev Crater, which may once have held a lake.

But geologists and other researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, were thrilled when they saw the possibilities surrounding Opportunity, which landed three weeks later. It landed inside a small crater in the Meridiani Planum, one of the flattest places on the planet. And its landing site was within driving distance for the spacecraft to reach an exposed slice of bedrock.

Since its landing January 25, Opportunity has used the same tools as a human field geologist would to determine the chemical contents of the rocks. Using an alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, a device that can identify chemical elements, scientists have identified a high concentration of sulfur in the bedrock.

Another instrument on board, a Moessbauer spectrometer, has detected an iron sulfate mineral known as jarosite. From their knowledge of rocks on earth, scientists say rocks with as much salt as this Mars rock either formed in water, or had a long exposure to water after they were formed. The scientists say these rocks could have formed in an acidic lake or even a hot springs.

Scientists say the case for a watery past is further strengthened by the pictures taken by the rovers' panoramic cameras and its microscopic imager. One target rock, named "El Capitan," is filled with random pockmarks. Geologists say a texture like that comes from sites where salt crystals have formed in rocks that have sat in salt water.

Scientists say they have gained other clues from the physical appearance of the rocks. They see a pattern called "crossbedding," which is often the result of wind or water moving across the rock's surface.

So what is ahead for the final few weeks of the rovers' operations on Mars?

"We need to take a close look at the outcropping, and broaden our view to get a better understanding of the geology of the region, which is about the size of Oklahoma," said Joy Crisp, project scientist at the Jet Propulsion Lab. She said there are also plans to drive about 740 meters east to a crater that has been nicknamed "Endurance."

And in the longer term?

"It's clear we have to do a sample return, both for the scientific side and in preparation for human landing," said Weiler. He said future Mars missions would also include miniaturizing equipment, and landing equipment that would help prepare for the eventual landings of humans. That might include tests for toxicity in the soil, and to determine if there are any materials that humans might find useful when they do arrive.

The cost of the two rover missions is about $820 million. With solar panels and lithium-ion battery systems aboard, each rover is expected to function and communicate with earth for about 90 Mars days, known as "sols." That's equivalent to 92 earth days.
 

AsburyJuke

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There probably was water on Mars as the Sun used to be a hell of a lot hotter which would have allowed water to be there. I don't know about life, if there was there would be greater evidence, unless it was all bacteria. Water makes it hospitible to life, it doesn't mean there is life.

Scientist always claim the creation of cells (life) was a freak thing where a bunch of chemicals happened to react just so to produce Mitochondion, the energy producing parts of a cell. IMO, the probablilty of this happening twice would be a total fluke, and as a Christian, I don't think there is other life, nearby at least.

The Mars stuff is really interesting, but clearly to help Bush win the next election, and it infuriates me that money is spent on such things when there are people dying of starvation all over the world. Every human life is precious, I'm sure Bush would consider that about his own life.
 
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the_malevolent_milk_man

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AsburyJuke said:
Scientist always claim the creation of cells (life) was a freak thing where a bunch of chemicals happened to react just so to produce Mitochondion, the energy producing parts of a cell. IMO, the probablilty of this happening twice would be a total fluke, and as a Christian, I don't think there is other life, nearby at least.
o_O Who is saying this?! They need to have their lab coat taken away and burned. The first protocells did not have mitochondria, or many organelles that are present in most cells today. There are still organisms around who lack mitochondria. The prevailing theory is that mitochondria started out seperate of cells and were then incorperated later down the road and live symbiotically.
 
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trunks2k

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groundhog said:
Doesn't surprise me at all. If you look at some of the formations of Mars, you can practically see the outline of former continents.

Yeah, I think most scientists already had the assumption that there was at one time, liquid water on the surface of Mars. This finding just cinched the deal.
 
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xMinionX

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I once read a Calvin and Hobbes strip that had Calvin saying something that I've always remembered. Him and Hobbes were on a tree stump, looking at a vast expanse of recently logged forest.

Calvin: Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere is that they haven't contacted us yet. *sigh*

Somewhat off topic, but I felt like sharing.

Anywho... countdown to someone coming in and claiming there's no life elsewhere because it doesn't say it in the Bible. 3...2........

;)
 
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Mac6yver

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AsburyJuke said:
Scientist always claim the creation of cells (life) was a freak thing where a bunch of chemicals happened to react just so to produce Mitochondion, the energy producing parts of a cell. IMO, the probablilty of this happening twice would be a total fluke, and as a Christian, I don't think there is other life, nearby at least.

Actually, it is possible that life on Earth originated from Mars. If Mars did support life at one time, and a meteor struck the surface of Mars throwing debris into orbit some of that debris could have found its way here, to earth. Possibly with microbes "Piggy Backing" on that debris.
 
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M

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Since when does finding highly circumstancial evidence confrim that there was life on Mars. I think this is all alot of speculation right now. I would need it to be confirmed from anouther source. I also question the accuracy of NASAs insteuments after traveling so far, somthing that cannot be tested right now. I think they are jumping the gun here a little bit.
 
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Captain_Jack_Sparrow

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MTU Engineer said:
Since when does finding highly circumstancial evidence confrim that there was life on Mars. I think this is all alot of speculation right now. I would need it to be confirmed from anouther source. I also question the accuracy of NASAs insteuments after traveling so far, somthing that cannot be tested right now. I think they are jumping the gun here a little bit.


Wow - a YEC engineering student. Funny how YEC's are rarely scientists but often engineers.

About your instrument comment. Most instruments that are damaged would give no results or random results. The odds that all instruments give concordant results makes 'damage' an even more unlikely argument.

I would call the evidence for water yesterday more than circumstantial. Of course extrapolations about life are ridiculously speculative.
 
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trunks2k

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MTU Engineer said:
Since when does finding highly circumstancial evidence confrim that there was life on Mars. I think this is all alot of speculation right now.

Well nobody has said that the finding means there is/was life on Mars, only that at one time there was an environment suitable for life on the planet. The rovers have observed formations and other things that can only be explained by the presence of water. As someone else mentioned, if faulty equipment was the problem, we would expect very random results or no reulsts at all.
 
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Paul12

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MTU Engineer said:
Since when does finding highly circumstancial evidence confrim that there was life on Mars. I think this is all alot of speculation right now. I would need it to be confirmed from anouther source. I also question the accuracy of NASAs insteuments after traveling so far, somthing that cannot be tested right now. I think they are jumping the gun here a little bit.
Ahh we got a MTech Huskie among us! Even though we smoked you guys at football this year, it's all good :)

Essentially no one in NASA is saying there was life on Mars. They are just admitting that having water on the planet once is just the first step toward understanding what happened in the past with Mars.

And a question: what would be needed to prove to you the validity of the NASA instruments' findings? Since this has been a supposition for years by scientists, and now there is some substantial evidence of water previously on Mars, isn't it a fair bet to conclude that there was indeed water on Mars? Because if we cannot trust these NASA techs, then who can we trust on this issue?
 
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Wolseley

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AsburyJuke said:
The Mars stuff is really interesting, but clearly to help Bush win the next election, and it infuriates me that money is spent on such things when there are people dying of starvation all over the world. Every human life is precious, I'm sure Bush would consider that about his own life.

Was Beagle-2 designed to get Bush re-elected???

Hopefully not, since it came a cropper the instant it landed. Ya'll should have spent that money feeding the starving. ;)

XMinionX said:
Anywho... countdown to someone coming in and claiming there's no life elsewhere because it doesn't say it in the Bible. 3...2........

Dunno about it saying things one way or the other in the Bible, but insofar as finding no evidence of life elsewhere, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. :)
 
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