LDS Life on the Sun

[drstevej]

So you also believe that Eve is in the image of a male?

I believe Heavenly Mother is an embarrassment to Mormonism.

 

[Anto9us]

lol
maybe Jane has inadvertently coined a term ( co-substantiation) which can be used for the relationship of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother!!

Finally, Heavenly Mother is not LEFT OUT!!

(Or, in eschatological terms -- LEFT BEHIND !!)

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is no such thing as "co-substantiation", and consubstantiation, if that is what you were trying to say, deals with a view of the Lord's Supper that denies a Real Presence.

lol
maybe Jane has inadvertently coined a term ( co-substantiation) which can be used for the relationship of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother!!

Finally, Heavenly Mother is not LEFT OUT!!

(Or, in eschatological terms -- LEFT BEHIND !!)

Useful explanation: Consubstantiality - Wikipedia

This is a Creedal concept, not LDS.

 

[drstevej]

And all of this in a thread on the existence of life on the Sun.
Time to get my bike and spread the news.

 

[Anto9us]

He is, pay attention -- I was copying Jane_Doe's post there, without using the quote feature.

I myself would never say "Nicene Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through co-substantiation" because co-substantiation is NOT A WORD and CONSUBSTANTIATION deals with Eucharist, not Trinity.

And as for your flesh and bone regurgitation, it has been discussed elsewhere already that ESSENCE rather than SUBSTANCE is a translation of ousias here.

I would venture that not only do Mormons NOT UNDERSTAND how Niceners view Trinity, but also that Mormons disagree among themselves about how to view Trinity -- as you and Jane seem to differ SUBSTANTIALLY.

 

[JackRT]

Even if it were possible for life to evolve in the extreme conditions of the sun it would be so very different from carbon based life forms that we probably could not even recognize it as life.

 

[Anto9us]

Consubstantiality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with consubstantiation.
------------------

but indeed it was apparently confused
tomayto - tomahto
potayto - potahto
Consubstantiality - Consubstantiation
lets call the whole thing off

drstevej is riding away
what are you WEARING, Chaplain Steve?

 

[drstevej]

drstevej is riding away
what are you WEARING, Chaplain Steve?

I was going to evangelize the sun so I have some

on.

 

[Anto9us]

rofl

 

[Jane_Doe]

He is, pay attention -- I was copying Jane_Doe's post there, without using the quote feature.

I myself would never say "Nicene Christians believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 1 God through co-substantiation" because co-substantiation is NOT A WORD and CONSUBSTANTIATION deals with Eucharist, not Trinity.

And as for your flesh and bone regurgitation, it has been discussed elsewhere already that ESSENCE rather than SUBSTANCE is a translation of ousias here.

Anto9us, I already correct the misspelling to be consubstantiality, which was the intended word. Consubstantiality - Wikipedia

 

[Anto9us]

thank you thank you Jane
for expanding my reality
with a new creedal term --
consubstantiality

as I celebrate Juneteenth
and official Emancipation
my thoughts turn to Eucharist
and consubstantiation

which leads to a question on Mormon Eucharistic practices
Is it true Mormons celebrate with bread and WATER?

Methodists use bread and non-fermented grape juice
(though the 'bread' was usually horrible dry little wafers,
now UMC also has a real loaf of bread)

In my short time in the Episcopal Church, they used real wine
and real bread

 

[Anto9us]

Do the Mormons believe that the bread and water
ACTUALLY BECOMES the flesh and blood of Christ? (Transubstantiation)
or that it only spiritually (Consubstantiation) or symbolically does so, or is a REMINDER only?

 

[Jane_Doe]

thank you thank you Jane
for expanding my reality
with a new creedal term --
consubstantiality

You're welcome

Do the Mormons believe that the bread and water
ACTUALLY BECOMES the flesh and blood of Christ? (Transubstantiation)
or that it only spiritually (Consubstantiation) or symbolically does so, or is a REMINDER only?

LDS do not believe in transubstantiation. The things you partake of are symbols, and it doesn't matter what you use. However, the rite of partaking of the Lord's Supper is not just a symbolic thing, rather has real spiritual impact wherein we remember Christ and renew our covenants with Him.

 

[Anto9us]

six-syllable and seven-syllable words to describe Lord's Supper and Trinity -- amazing.

I am adamant about Trinity, but open about Consubstantiation and Transubstantiation.

I believe in the Trinity, despite impracticality
but prefer to withold judgement on consubstantiality

 

[drstevej]

Once we ran out of grape juice, so in the second service we passed the bread and then I explained that we were out of juice so I asked them to partake by faith. No one complained.

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "Jesus Christ is not the grandson of some other divine being that had once been human and became a god."
How did you come to that conclusion?

How did you come to the conclusion that He is??
Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Correction, He is the only Son of God in the flesh, we are all children of God. Eve is in the image of God, but not God the Father. We are Christ's brothers and sisters:
(New Testament | Matthew 23:8)

Correction: we are not the actual, physical children of God produced by Him and some heavenly mother. We are adopted children, You can not adopt natural children, they are yours,, period. Adoption is for those that are not the natural offspring.
Correction: we are not all children of God---only when we accept Him as our Father do we become adopted by Him.

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

That is contrary to the laws of the universe and is not Biblical. The word created does not mean out of nothing:
(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Old Testament | Genesis 2:7)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

LOL!! Laws of the universe?!! God created those!!!

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
God made the dust from which Adam and Eve were created--you serve a very puny God---ours always was, from everlasting to everlasting, and He is the ONE AND ONLY GOD THE FATHER ANYWHERE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE, and there will never be any other anywhere and is all powerful, and He did indeed make everything. It is completely unbiblical to say otherwise.

 

[He is the way]

How did you come to the conclusion that He is??
Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

In this scripture Jesus had already covenanted with Israel to be their God and Saviour. He was speaking out against idol worship:

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:7)

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

(Old Testament | Psalms 106:21)

21 They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:3)

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:11)

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[He is the way]

Correction: we are not the actual, physical children of God produced by Him and some heavenly mother. We are adopted children, You can not adopt natural children, they are yours,, period. Adoption is for those that are not the natural offspring.
Correction: we are not all children of God---only when we accept Him as our Father do we become adopted by Him.

Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We lost our birthright through sin that is why we need an adoption:
(Old Testament | Isaiah 59:2)

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
(New Testament | Romans 5:8 - 21)

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

We are all His children:
(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:6 - 9)

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

 

[mmksparbud]

In this scripture Jesus had already covenanted with Israel to be their God and Saviour. He was speaking out against idol worship:

(Old Testament | Exodus 6:7)

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

(Old Testament | Psalms 106:21)

21 They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:3)

3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 43:11)

11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

And???? There is no God before, will be no other -- He is the one and only God---you want to believe in endless gods before Him and after Him, go right ahead---but do not think it is either Christian nor is it biblical. You'll be better off just reading the bible instead of what JS thinks the bible says. He is wrong, the bible is the word of God, JS's writings, are not of God.

 

[Anto9us]

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

No weaseling out of that one. Sorry.