"Life and its building blocks are way too complicated to have evolved." [moved]

[-57]

You seem to have forgotten what you actually wrote. Here is it:
"As I previously pointed out....you are assuming the last 3 generations...were the same a 100 generations ago.
We know something changed because after the flood the life spans shortened...then after the days of Peleg, they shortened again."

You sure seem to be rejecting the idea that measured mutation rates from the last three generations apply 100 generations ago. My response assumed that you were attempting to make an actual, rational argument. Judging from this post, I was mistaken.

Yes, you were mistaken....I made no attempt to have a rational discussion....as always, you're right.

NEXT

 

[-57]

So you have no such names then?

Do you realise that your religion has a commandment forbidding the bearing of false witness.....?

And your's has a commandment forcing you to lie.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't disagree...I think the "self correcting" process in some instances were damaged due to harmful mutations caused by the fall.

What fall?

 

[bhsmte]

And your's has a commandment forcing you to lie.

What exactly, is he lying about?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I made no attempt to have a rational discussion.

Ah, so it would seem to me, yes.

 

[-57]

What fall?

Seriously? You're posting on a Christian forum....and you have to ask...What fall?

I think you like to post for the sake of posting.

NEXT

 

[bhsmte]

Seriously? You're posting on a Christian forum....and you have to ask...What fall?

I think you like to post for the sake of posting.

NEXT

Yes, what fall?

Can you demonstrate what this fall is, when it happened and provide evidence that it happened?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, you were mistaken....I made no attempt to have a rational discussion....as always, you're right.

NEXT

What were you attempting to do then?

 

[Speedwell]

Seriously? You're posting on a Christian forum....and you have to ask...What fall?

I think you like to post for the sake of posting.

NEXT

This particular board is open to non-Christians. Maybe you ought to explain it to him.

 

[doubtingmerle]

What fall?

The fall of this thread from any attempt at rational response, perhaps?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I don't disagree...I think the "self correcting" process in some instances were damaged due to harmful mutations caused by the fall.

The fall is something that science does not take into consideration at all. We know that cold sucks the energy out of hot, the universe goes from order to disorder or entropy. This in and of itself is an argument for God because the universe is required to have an outside force in order for it to work. We do not know that the energy comes from the God of the Bible. But we do know that the system requires an energy outside of the system. We have to build a house the house does not build itself. Then once the house is built it starts to decay. The atoms themselves do not have perfect bonds and they tend to fall about. In fact that is what carbon dating is all about. The deterioration or entropy rate is said to be very consistent and steady.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If you will read the link I posted, it is about mutations leading to new species, not about simply evolution within a species.

Do you know the difference between cause and effect. I do not disagree with common ancestor. The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning. That does not leave any room for mistakes, errors or mutations. IF you can prove the mutations theory is true you can win the prize but you are offering NOTHING in the way of evidence AT ALL only speculation and opinion. You have presented your hypothesize and not you have to test your hypothesis and prove that it is true. If you think that science gives a prize for people when they come up with a hypothese your wrong. You get the prize when you are able to prove your hypothesis is accurate or true. Right now you have come up with zip, zero, zilch, nothing in the way of evidence for your theory.

 

[bhsmte]

Do you know the difference between cause and effect. I do not disagree with common ancestor. The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning. That does not leave any room for mistakes, errors or mutations. IF you can prove the mutations theory is true you can win the prize but you are offering NOTHING in the way of evidence AT ALL only speculation and opinion. You have presented your hypothesize and not you have to test your hypothesis and prove that it is true. If you think that science gives a prize for people when they come up with a hypothese your wrong. You get the prize when you are able to prove your hypothesis is accurate or true. Right now you have come up with zip, zero, zilch, nothing in the way of evidence for your theory.

What does your buddy Francis Collins say about mutations?

 

[sfs]

Yes, you were mistaken....I made no attempt to have a rational discussion....as always, you're right.

NEXT

And there we see the essence of creationism. Repeat a few slogans, bow out when challenged.

 

[bhsmte]

And there we see the essence of creationism. Repeat a few slogans, bow out when challenged.

That is what those robust defense mechanisms are for.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The fall is something that science does not take into consideration at all.

Science usually doesn't take into consideration those things which are demonstrably false.

We know that cold sucks the energy out of hot, the universe goes from order to disorder or entropy. This in and of itself is an argument for God because the universe is required to have an outside force in order for it to work.

Que? What outside force??

But we do know that the system requires an energy outside of the system.

We do?

We have to build a house the house does not build itself.

A house is not a proper analogy to the universe.

Then once the house is built it starts to decay.

Because it is part of the universe, where there is a thing like entropy.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Do you know the difference between cause and effect. I do not disagree with common ancestor. The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning. That does not leave any room for mistakes, errors or mutations. IF you can prove the mutations theory is true you can win the prize but you are offering NOTHING in the way of evidence AT ALL only speculation and opinion.

You're a century late to the party. All this has been done.

You have presented your hypothesize and not you have to test your hypothesis and prove that it is true.

Your hero Francis Collins heavily disagress. So heavily, that he says this theory is scientifically non-negotiable and that no educated person can rationally doubt it.

 

[USincognito]

Seriously? You're posting on a Christian forum....and you have to ask...What fall?

I love when these folks act as if this is a revelation.

 

[SteveB28]

And your's has a commandment forcing you to lie.

And still no names of those scientists, which you claim can provide evidence that retroviral insertions are not in the same locations for chimpanzees and humans...?

Were you telling the truth when you made that claim? Why will you not show your evidence? You say you have it....why will you not show it?

Oh, and I am a liar? If you ask me for evidence I will happily show what I have. Why will you not do the same?

 

[joshua 1 9]

You're a century late to the party. All this has been done.

Your hero Francis Collins heavily disagree. So heavily, that he says this theory is scientifically non-negotiable and that no educated person can rationally doubt it.

Collins talks about founder effect and common ancestor but that is not what we are talking about here. When I ask for an example of a beneficial mutation people want to talk about Sickle Cell Disease. Most mutations are either neutral or harmful. So called beneficial mutations are rare. So what you end up with is what they call frameshift which is more like reshuffling a deck of cards then a mistake or error.