Liberal

[Ringo84]

Go ahead, throw around the word "conservative". That won't shame me at all, unlike you I WILL BE PROUD OF WHAT I AM.

Uh....OK. That was a non-sequitor. When did I ever "throw around" the word 'conservative'? You don't have a leg to stand on, friend.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

I really don't understand some people around here. All I'm asking for in this thread is some respect - for the generalizations to stop. You'd think I asked the impossible. Some people are more interested in debating quote-unquote "liberal" policy with me, as though I'm personally responsible for the actions of every liberal since the word 'liberal' was first coined. I'm not talking about Al Gore. Or Bill Clinton. Or anyone else. I'm talking about plain, unadulterated respect. If some of you can't handle that, well then, I don't think you're worth my time.
Ringo

 

[hoser]

"The lefitsts"? We all think and act alike? Since when?

I can't speak for every liberal, but I can speak for me. If you have a problem with a certain liberal, complain about them. Don't include me in your rants about "the leftists". Don't trample upon my convictions as though I'm some kind of "nut". That's all I ask.
Ringo

Ringo, I have never complained about you specifically at all. But I am sorry, I do realize that not ALL libs are on agreement for everything ridiculous, but in GENERAL most are. Sorry, but one MUST generalize when talking in terms like this. It is TRUE, in general libs like taxes to be HIGH. It is TRUE, in general libs like HIGH government spending. It is TRUE, in general libs support killing inborn babies. It is TRUE, in general libs support all five of the five non-negotiables. Now maybe not you, I don't know! But I can generalize because most libs do support these five issues, especially abortion.

So stop concerning yourself with labeling and such. Generalization USUALLY do fit. Maybe NOT ALL, but most. So deal with it.

 

[Ringo84]

Ringo, I have never complained about you specifically at all. But I am sorry, I do realize that not ALL libs are on agreement for everything ridiculous, but in GENERAL most are. Sorry, but one MUST generalize when talking in terms like this. It is TRUE, in general libs like taxes to be HIGH. It is TRUE, in general libs like HIGH government spending. It is TRUE, in general libs support killing inborn babies. It is TRUE, in general libs support all five of the five non-negotiables. Now maybe not you, I don't know! But I can generalize because most libs do support these five issues, especially abortion.

So stop concerning yourself with labeling and such. Generalization USUALLY do fit. Maybe NOT ALL, but most. So deal with it.

I know you haven't, hoser, and I appreciate it. However, I don't like generalizations.

You do have a point - stereotypes/generalizations usually do contain a grain of truth. But I don't think it's right to lump people together that way. That's all.
Ringo

 

[hoser]

Uh....OK. That was a non-sequitor. When did I ever "throw around" the word 'conservative'? You don't have a leg to stand on, friend.
Ringo

Uh, duh??? You are whining about the labeling of liberals and left wingers weren't you??? I am just pointing out the fact, duh, that you can whine all you want about people using the terms "liberals and leftwinger" and be offended while I have NO problem with someone using the terms "conservative or right winger", because I have NO problems with that at all. Do you understand now?

 

[Ringo84]

Uh, duh??? You are whining about the labeling of liberals and left wingers weren't you??? I am just pointing out the fact, duh, that you can whine all you want about people using the terms "liberals and leftwinger" and be offended while I have NO problem with someone using the terms "conservative or right winger", because I have NO problems with that at all. Do you understand now?

Well yeah. But see, the word 'conservative' has not been given the same negative connotation that 'liberal' has. Liberal is a descriptive word but these days, it's often used as an insult. Politicians run from this term like they were lebeled a 'Nazi'. It's not fair, and THAT's what I've spent this entire thread trying to say.

I'm proud to be a liberal, just as you are a conservative. I'm railing against the word 'liberal' being used as an epithet or an insult. See what I mean?
Ringo

 

[hoser]

I know you haven't, hoser, and I appreciate it. However, I don't like generalizations.

You do have a point - stereotypes/generalizations usually do contain a grain of truth. But I don't think it's right to lump people together that way. That's all.
Ringo

OK Ringo, I am strongly opposed to most things that "are not conservative", (is that a better way of explaining things?)

Tell me, when I am talking in disagreement about these kind of things that I believe are generally liberally beliefs, how should I address this without saying "liberals"? How can I discuss this and rip on the people that are in opposition to the ideals that I hold? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Like I was saying, I have no problems if you were using the term "conservative" if you are opposed to something that conservatives hold. Example, if you wanted to say, "those darn conservative always wanting to lower my taxes, darn, I cannot stand low taxes!".

Sorry to burst your bubble, that would not offend me whatsoever. In fact I would be quite proud. I have nothing to be ashamed of in being a conservative. I am very pleased to be one.

 

[elanor]

So stop concerning yourself with labeling and such. Generalization USUALLY do fit. Maybe NOT ALL, but most. So deal with it.

You're absolutely right that generalizations don't fit everyone. Just like the majority of conservatives aren't rude, insulting, condescending snots. But there are some. Or at least one I can think of.

 

[hoser]

Well yeah. But see, the word 'conservative' has not been given the same negative connotation that 'liberal' has. Liberal is a descriptive word but these days, it's often used as an insult. Politicians run from this term like they were lebeled a 'Nazi'. It's not fair, and THAT's what I've spent this entire thread trying to say.

I'm proud to be a liberal, just as you are a conservative. I'm railing against the word 'liberal' being used as an epithet or an insult. See what I mean?
Ringo

Ringo, you seem to be a nice guy. But can't you see the issue here? Liberals run from what they are. You said it here and I have known this to be true for years. Why is that? Why cannot liberals proudly admit what they believe and what they are?

Unlike conservatives, we don't run from that. We (yes in general) are proud of that. I know for fact, that I won't run from that. You don't normally see conservative running from that. Why? There is a reason.

 

[hoser]

You're absolutely right that generalizations don't fit everyone. Just like the majority of conservatives aren't rude, insulting, condescending snots. But there are some. Or at least one I can think of.

Sorry Ringo, I just saw your picture and noticed that your name is most likely "elenor". Is that true? Sorry about saying "guy". Sometimes you just can't tell on these boards.

 

[7reeT]

"The lefitsts"? We all think and act alike? Since when?

I can't speak for every liberal, but I can speak for me. If you have a problem with a certain liberal, complain about them. Don't include me in your rants about "the leftists". Don't trample upon my convictions as though I'm some kind of "nut". That's all I ask.
Ringo

You are not "born" a leftist. You choose to wear the title. As such, if you do not like being thrown in as a group with them, there is a rather simple and elegant solution- stop labeling yourself as one.

 

[Ringo84]

Hoser:

Liberals run from what they are. You said it here and I have known this to be true for years. Why is that? Why cannot liberals proudly admit what they believe and what they are?

Unlike conservatives, we don't run from that. We (yes in general) are proud of that. I know for fact, that I won't run from that. You don't normally see conservative running from that. Why? There is a reason.

I see what you're saying, Hoser, and you might have a point. However, I don't run from the label liberal. My issue in this thread is not being called a liberal but the way in which some people use the word liberal. Some people, because of bias and preconceived notions (and I don't necessarily mean you), use the word liberal as more of an insult than a descriptive term. They label their opponents 'liberal' not to describe them but to affix a word to them that, to some, means a whole lot of really bad things. I don't like that and I want it to stop. Do you see what I'm saying?

This is not an issue of being called a liberal. My issue is when people use liberal to discredit people.

Sorry Ringo, I just saw your picture and noticed that your name is most likely "elenor". Is that true? Sorry about saying "guy". Sometimes you just can't tell on these boards.

I don't know what's up with the sudden turn from 'you seem like a nice guy' to questioning my gender, but there's no need for that kind of stuff.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

Not that simple. Would you want to be associated with Fred Phelps? Or other notorious right-wingers who were hateful? Or bigoted? Of course not. I realize that not all conservatives are right-wingers and very few of them agree with Fred Phelps' extremism. That's why I am careful to not generalize about conservatives. You don't deserve to be lumped together with the worst elements of your side of the political spectrum, and neither do I.
Ringo

 

[Jetgirl]

I'd like to say something that's been on my mind for a long time: I am sick and tired of seeing the word "liberal" thrown around like an insult, generalizations about liberals ("you liberals..." and "libs....", etc), and liberals in general being attacked and debased for their beliefs. It has to stop.

Don't be offended by being called a liberal, and it will be discontinued as a label. Words only have the power you give them.

Besides, you could always be a *gasp, hiss* neocon.

 

[Jetgirl]

Well, I tend not to have a sense of humor when I'm insulted in that way - when my patriotism, my belief in God, and everything else is questioned by people sinply because I don't tow a certain political/theological line. I'm not saying that that's your purpose here, but I've had enough of that and I want it to stop. If that means that I have no sense of humor, then so be it.
Ringo

Here's an idea, how about instead of complaining and demanding that certian laguage use be nuanced in the way you approve of, you SHOW that the people who are insulting you this way are wrong. Show them that you're religious, show them that you're patriotic. (Of course ocassionally people trying to show patriotism by being against everything with a molecule of American traditions backfires, but you might not be going that route.)

Besides this is ridiculous, if someone is a liberal they are a liberal, it's a discriptive word. It's ludicrious to want to both perserve the acutal word, but try disapprove of people saying or using it with a certian tone.

Come on. It's a WORD.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

considering that every single founder of our country was a flaming liberal, and considered criminaly leftist by most of the rest of the world, I'm proud to wear the title, and will simply continue to advocate the ideas that our country was founded on through that label, proving the liars wrong, and correcting those who were lied to by example. Its why we started as the most liberal country in the world, and have only gotten more liberal since then. Its also why we will continue to become more and more liberal until the dreams and philosophies of our founders are freed from the shackles of prejudice, bigotry, and xenophobia that have been weakened but not yet broken, and a place where all people are truly equal exists.

Liberalism is the wave we've been riding since this country, the greatest in the history of the world was founded, and its carried us quite well to this point. Someday in the future we will reach the shores of true freedom and equality, despite the best efforts of some to hold us back.
Those who oppose liberalism have a right to their views, but in the course of the world and this nation, they have always been on the wrong side of history, and will continue to be so.

I'm a liberal.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

i will ammend my statement to say this:
conservatives DO serve a legitimate function in the tide of history. since every generation learns from the mistakes and successes of the previous ones, it is true that there are some freedoms that mankind may be entitled to, but is not yet enlightened enough to handle. There are those from every generation who advocate freedoms that are moral and right, but in a society that (given a society's right to some level of self determination) cannot handle. Conservatives fight against freedoms until the tide of society is against them, and something changes. Things like slavery are perfect examples of this. Abolitionists existed since the beginning of the country, but they weren't succesful until their ideas won in the court of public opinion. Even our court system is more beholden to public interest than perhaps it should be.

The simple fact is that Conservatives will hold the tide of further liberalism until their dam breaks because not enough people support them. We've seen it with every social issue in this country, and the evidence shows we will see it with future issues as well. Though marriage ammendments continue to pass, and discrimination is being written into our state constituttions accross the nation, polls almost always indicate that the young people in those states vote overwhelmingly AGAINST these things. Society may not be ready for gay marriage yet. This does not justify discrimination, but it does explain why it exists in a supposedly free society. The simple fact is that liberalism is inevitable as more people realize and assert their rights.

every time these things happen, conservatives wail about the downfall of society while society continues to grow and thrive around them.

oh, and conservative and liberal have very little to do with Democrat or Republican

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

i thought this was a good thread.

bump

 

[Jetgirl]

i thought this was a good thread.

bump

Sorry. I killed the thread.

 

[Ringo84]

Sorry. I killed the thread.

No - not at all. Thanks for your input.
Ringo