Liberal predestination

[JacksLadder]

Are there any liberal churches that believe in predestination?

 

[Im_A]

couldn't a church that teaches universalism be considered slightly predestination?

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I can't speak for them, but the Presbyterian Church (USA) is reputedly liberal, and I would expect them to be Calvinistic.

I'm guessing...

 

[DailyBlessings]

People call me by both of those labels from time to time, but I don't know of any churches that believe both, offhand.

 

[Adammi]

The first that come to mind are the Presbyterian Church USA and the United Church of Christ.

 

[Bick]

Are there any liberal churches that believe in predestination?

MY COMMENTS: If I may enter this dialogue: when I think of a liberal church, and I can think of some, predestination (Calvinism) would not be believed or taught, for, liberal churches that I know of do not believe in the Bible as completely God's Word.

For instance: the virgin birth of Jesus is not necessary or true, good works are apart of salvation, the second coming of Christ is not necessarily believed, etc.

So, when they read verses implying predestination, they must rationalize them away.

Bick

 

[Gukkor]

Can't really think of any, though I would think that a universalist church would be a good place to start looking. Personally, I'm both universalist and a believer in free will, but I can easily see how that would be a minority position.

 

[JacksLadder]

I would not expect liberals to say predestination because the bible said so but predestination in more of a "The Alchemist" by Paulo Coelho way. I tend to be conservative myself but I will prefer to be the more conservative person in the room than the most liberal of the people in the room.

 

[Bick]

Can't really think of any, though I would think that a universalist church would be a good place to start looking. Personally, I'm both universalist and a believer in free will, but I can easily see how that would be a minority position.

MY COMMENTS: What exactly do you mean by being a "universalist"?

Do you believe in the sovereignty of God?

Bick

 

[Adammi]

The answer to the OP's question is yes. The United Church of Christ affirms the Heidelberg Catechism.

 

[Gukkor]

MY COMMENTS: What exactly do you mean by being a "universalist"?

Do you believe in the sovereignty of God?

Bick

I've no interest in a debate, just so you know, but to answer your questions, I'm a universalist in that I believe that all will eventually be saved. In other words, I don't believe in an eternal Hell, whether it be one of torture or simply destruction.

Yes, I do believe in the sovereignty of God, and I believe that in His sovereignty, He has chosen to give us the freedom to make our own decisions, rather than setting our destinies in stone.

 

[BabyLutheran]

I think God does not desire that anyone become a liberal, so he gives us free will to be one, but does not predestine it! lol

(look at thread title if you don't get my stupid joke)

 

[JacksLadder]

Thanks for the info and the laughs LoL

 

[Chesterton]

It's funny you started this thread, Jacks, because last week I considered sending you a PM to ask what Liberal Calvinist meant. (Although since then you've changed it to Liberal Monotheist Calvinist, which confuses me even more - are there polytheistic or pantheistic Calvinists? If there are, I fear ole Johnny would have burnt them at the stake.)

 

[JacksLadder]

It's funny you started this thread, Jacks, because last week I considered sending you a PM to ask what Liberal Calvinist meant. (Although since then you've changed it to Liberal Monotheist Calvinist, which confuses me even more - are there polytheistic or pantheistic Calvinists? If there are, I fear ole Johnny would have burnt them at the stake.)

I believe in predestination which is what brought me back from Buddhism to Christianity. I seem to line up with Calvinism believing people are totally depraved and in irresistible Grace (transcendent experiences). I tend to be politically moderate to liberal believing in evolution and the separation of church and state. The monotheistic part is pretty much just to mess with people and is a tongue and cheek joke referring to saint/Mary veneration

 

[QuakerOats]

couldn't a church that teaches universalism be considered slightly predestination?

I think so. I believe that ultimately, we're all destined to enter heaven, nirvana, or whatever you choose to call it, and that's basically the teaching of universal salvation-that all will eventually be restored in Christ, or will come to Christ.

 

[Bick]

The answer to the OP's question is yes. The United Church of Christ affirms the Heidelberg Catechism.

MY COMMENTS: Have you read the Heidelberg Catechism?

 

[drstevej]

I believe in predestination which is what brought me back from Buddhism to Christianity. I seem to line up with Calvinism believing people are totally depraved and in irresistible Grace (transcendent experiences). I tend to be politically moderate to liberal believing in evolution and the separation of church and state. The monotheistic part is pretty much just to mess with people and is a tongue and cheek joke referring to saint/Mary veneration

separation of church and state is not exclusively liberal
Maybe you are a semi-Calvinist rather than a semi-Calvanist.

Calvanists are often associated with guns and that's not too liberal.

 

[Adammi]

MY COMMENTS: Have you read the Heidelberg Catechism?

I have. While the Heidelberg Catechism itself does not explicitly state Calvinism, it is seen as a strong part of that tradition. I have always assumed their affirmation of it to mean that they are Calvinists. Maybe it is something else though. Both of my pastors are ordained UCC ministers, and I know from them and others that the UCC most certainly sees itself as a part of the Reformed/Calvinist tradition.

 

[SpiritDriven]

I think so. I believe that ultimately, we're all destined to enter heaven, nirvana, or whatever you choose to call it, and that's basically the teaching of universal salvation-that all will eventually be restored in Christ, or will come to Christ.

Well it is the Bible that actualy teaches that God will be all and in all....
Especially of believers is how the word of God describes those in the know at the moment....see 1 Timothy 4 verses 9, 10, and 11.

That knowing is God given, not everybody has that knowing yet, but all will have that knowing in the end....because.... in the end... is what Gods plan is all about.
If anybody refers to you as a Universalist, you had better point out to them that... you are... what the word of God describes you are... in 1 Timothy 4.
You are one of the....especially of believers.....because that is exactly how your faith in God in regards to the destiny of all, is described in Gods word.


Peace