Liberal predestination

[QuakerOats]

Thank you for your encouragement, SpiritDriven.

 

[Bick]

I've no interest in a debate, just so you know, but to answer your questions, I'm a universalist in that I believe that all will eventually be saved. In other words, I don't believe in an eternal Hell, whether it be one of torture or simply destruction.

Yes, I do believe in the sovereignty of God, and I believe that in His sovereignty, He has chosen to give us the freedom to make our own decisions, rather than setting our destinies in stone.

MY COMMENTS: I too believe in the sovereignty of God, especially as it is revealed in His Holy Word. And, I too do not believe there is a hell where "lost souls are tortured forever." Not because of human logic, but because it is not found in an accurate literal rendition of the Scriptures.

It is only because of God's love and power that men will come to him and be saved; not by man's 'free' choice.

We are told this in many places, particularly in the New Testament:

1 Timothy 2:3-4: "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." KJV.

1 Timothy 4:10: "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." KJV.

And man believes the truth as it is revealed. And, can man take credit for this? No, indeed! For even our faith is a gift of God:

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast." KJV.

Those who are believing are in the church/body of Christ, who are promised a glorious future in the heavenlies.

Israel will be delivered and, along with proselytes to Judaism, will have a marvelous blessed future in the coming Messianic Kingdom on the earth, for a thousand years.

So, my friend, apart from faith in the shed blood of Christ, no one will go to heaven during the eons (ages) God has planned. Their destiny is to be resurrected and judged for their deeds before the great white throne.
And if judged not worthy of life, they will die the second death in the lake of fire.

I'm convinced that at that judgment these deserving death, will confess and believe in Christ their judge.

After the ages (eons) run their course (there are two more to come), and all enemies will have been made subject to Christ Jesus, he will hand over the thrown to God the Father, that He may be all in all.

At the end of the ages, death, the last enemy will be abolished and sin will be done away with.

Therefore, with no death, then all who have died will be made alive; and with no sin in the universe, all will be reconciled to God.

This, my friend, is the plan revealed in the truth of the Scriptures.

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eonian life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom. 6:23

Bick

 

[hedrick]

The PCUSA doesn't mandate belief in predestination, although it's in most of the confessions that we say guide us. I think you'll find a greater concern to maintain the sovereignty of God in our serious theologians than in some churches, and I think you'll find some members and pastors who believe in predestination, but I'd be surprised if a majority do.

I believe in a modified version. I think God's plan includes both who is saved and who is damned. But I don't think he actively sets out to damn anyone, which some statements by Calvin suggest.

 

[Bick]

The PCUSA doesn't mandate belief in predestination, although it's in most of the confessions that we say guide us. I think you'll find a greater concern to maintain the sovereignty of God in our serious theologians than in some churches, and I think you'll find some members and pastors who believe in predestination, but I'd be surprised if a majority do.

I believe in a modified version. I think God's plan includes both who is saved and who is damned. But I don't think he actively sets out to damn anyone, which some statements by Calvin suggest.

MY COMMENTS: Technically, the English "damn" just means "judge" from the Greek, "krima."

When a person receives a negative judgement, "katakrima"-Gk., he is "condemned."

So, literally, we are all going to be judged (damned) at one time or another.

I understand that today, in common thinking, if we think of someone being "damned" we think of them being "lost", winding up in "hell."

I'm not sure how you think God's plan is to be carried out, other than in your own mind.

It is my understanding from the Scriptures, that, indeed, "God is the Saviour of all men, especially of those who believe." 1 Tim. 4:10.

Also, we are told in 1 Tim. 2:3-4, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come into the knowledge of the truth." KJV.

Through the ages, God is calling out for his service, his elect:
Since the end of the Acts period, through the Apostle Paul, the church/body of Christ is being called out; when they are caught away to the heavens, then the good news will be through His people, Israel, on earth.

At different times and places, all must be judged, give account for their deeds. Then, at the comsummation of the ages, all will be made alive; all enemies will be subjected to the Son; the Son will be subjected to the Father, that God may be all in all (1 Cor. 15:22-28).