Liberal Christians

Celticroots · Nov 29, 2017

Jason0047 said:
I think it is good that a time away for an extended period of time is needed (without divorce) should be considered as an alternative until the abusive partner cleans up their act on their own. God says the only way we are allowed to divorce is if they cheated on us.

But why should a Christian suffer like this? Well, we are to live the life of Christ. Life is not always going to be full of lolipops and kittens. Christ suffered greatly, and we are said to follow His example. Also, the story of Hosea and Gomer comes to my mind, as well.

Check out my CF thread on Hosea here:

Did God Really Tell Hosea to Marry a Prostitute?

Of course life isn't going to be all lollypops and kittens, but to suggest that someone must go back to an abusive spouse is not right. For abusers, some will say they have changed to get their partner to come back to them, and then start the whole cycle of abuse over again. Abusers are about manipulation and control.

I remember reading a post from a woman who was in an abusive marriage, whose husband "repented" only to return to his behavior. She did the right thing, the courageous thing, and divorced him. If I were in her shoes, I'd do the same thing. Oh, and she also said that she was sick of being judged by those who had never been in her position. I am sure that others who have been in abusive relationships share her sentiment.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 29, 2017

Grip Docility said:
Everyone has a big enough beam in their eye to not have to point out other people’s specs.

We were never commissioned to condemn. Jesus didn’t come to condemn. Read John chapter 3 again. Did not come to condemn but save....

Jesus was talking about His mission. He did not come to condemn (i.e. to bring judgment), but to save man from his sins on the cross and then conquer the penalty for our sins with raising from the dead. However, do not be mistaken: Jesus condemned sins plenty of times. See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 10:33.

For as Paul says, be not deceived,
The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

In fact, Jesus did die for us so as to give us a license to sin (or that we can sin and still be saved). That would make us just as bad as the Pharisees of whom Jesus condemned because they lived hypocritically.

Jesus died (gave Himself) for the church so as to present to Himself a church that is without spot, and who is holy and without blemish.

25 "even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

Jesus gave Himself for us (the church) so that He might redeem us from all iniquity (sin) and so that He will purify unto Himself a peculiar people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

PeaceByJesus said:
I see this is in > Christian Advice which means "Christian Advice is a non-debate area for members to ask and receive Biblically-based, Christian advice for a struggle they are encountering. Christian Advice is a Christians only forum...Christian advice is defined as advice which contains basic Christian principles that do not conflict with the site's Statement of Faith."

Which is a problem because it hardly seems advice is being asked, and we can have people who are not Christians here, which is a problem partly due to the deficient criteria for that. Oh well. I thought this would be worth posting on but if debate is disallowed, though it continues, then no sense in me being here.

Instead, i think this should be moved.

I never thought this would turn into a debate, nor did I intend it to. I genuinely thought I would receive Christian support that conservatism backs up Christian views. BUT it resulted in the exact opposite... ugh modern Christians *eye roll*

hedrick · Nov 29, 2017

PeaceByJesus said:
Instead, i think this should be moved.

You can request that by using the "report" function.

If you simply want to condemn liberals, a number of theology or debate groups might be appropriate. If you want actual responses to the OP, it's probably not possible other than in the Liberal group. But there it would have to look like someone was seriously interested in understanding Liberal Christianity. Simply condemning it would not be permitted.

My personal view is that liberal Christianity is based on Scripture, whereas conservative Christianity unintentionally imports traditional cultural values. But Christian Advice is not the place to justify that.

JackRT · Nov 29, 2017

PeaceByJesus said:
Liberal is not freedom to choose their own spiritual path, but choosing a different one that that of Scripture, which liberals oppose.

That is a completely wrongheaded understanding of liberals. We seek truth. That sometimes means taking a different understanding of scripture than you do. Have you ever considered that your interpretation might be wrong? Liberals do that all the time. Liberals do not oppose scripture. They seek to understand it. Quit telling me what I believe! I know what I believe while you just seem to make up my beliefs for me. If you wish to oppose liberals, I suggest that you do that on the basis of fact and not on the basis of your imaginings.

Grip Docility · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
Bro! Never once did I say I believe in the "Republican" Jesus. I suggested that conservative beliefs, morals, values, and standards support Christianity, on the other hand Liberalism does not.

Slippery slope!

A bunch of people that claim moral high ground and say some sinners are bigger sinners than others ignores James chapter 2.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

JackRT said:
That is a completely wrongheaded understanding of liberals. We seek truth. That sometimes means taking a different understanding of scripture than you do. Have you ever considered that your interpretation might be wrong? Liberals do that all the time. Liberals do not oppose scripture. They seek to understand it. Quit telling me what I believe! I know what I believe while you just seem to make up my beliefs for me. If you wish to oppose liberals, I suggest that you do that on the basis of fact and not on the basis of your imaginings.

Okay, first off.. when we are talking about Liberal Christians, we are NOT talking about the way in which they interpret scripture. NO. Instead, we are talking about liberal beliefs, values, standards and how that does not support Christianity. Whereas conservative views do.

Kenny'sID · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
im a hardcore conservative Christian. I have always thought that conservative views go hand and hang with Christianity. Morals. Values. Standards. These are things I thought Christians should stand up for.

I can understand how some economic views such as capitalism and like healthcare can be controversial for anyone (including Christians) but issues such as abortion, gay rights, transgenderism, islam, - aren't these topics that all Christian's should be consistent with opposing? I mean, the Bible does support opposing it... so if Christians support scripture, why are some Christians liberal??? like shouldn't Christians be conservative?

I know a couple people who claim they are Christian but also have very liberal ideas. for example, this girl i met recently is basically a hardcore feminist, anti-trump, it seems her idealogy cannot support Christian values. This is just one example, I know so many Christians that are liberal. and i just dont understand

thoughts?

I dont wanna start a debate here, i am just genuinely concerned for the way our society is moving - LIBERAL.

I too know people who "claim" to be Christian, and that probably explains it all for me.

majj27 · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
I never thought this would turn into a debate, nor did I intend it to. I genuinely thought I would receive Christian support that conservatism backs up Christian views. BUT it resulted in the exact opposite... ugh modern Christians *eye roll*

Well, I'm sorry that I don't appear to measure up to your standards of being a Christian.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

Grip Docility said:
Slippery slope!

A bunch of people that claim moral high ground and say some sinners are bigger sinners than others ignores James chapter 2.

Again, never once did I say that some sins are bigger than others. I have not said that, for for example homosexuality or murder (abortion), is way worse than lying. NO. I said that if the Bible opposes the sin of homosexuality and murder, why would we as Christians want to make it legal. Please explain yourself.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

majj27 said:
Well, I'm sorry that I don't appear to measure up to your standards of being a Christian.

It is not my standards. It is the Bible's. Please get your facts straight and stop assuming standards I supposedly place on Christianity.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
I too know people who "claim" to be Christian, and that probably explains it all for me.

Yes. "Claim" meaning they say "I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose 3 days later". Is that not the very basic understanding of being a Christian?

JackRT · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
Okay, first off.. when we are talking about Liberal Christians, we are NOT talking about the way in which they interpret scripture. NO. Instead, we are talking about liberal beliefs, values, standards and how that does not support Christianity. Whereas conservative views do.

And most liberal Christians would say that their beliefs, values and standards support authentic Christianity whereas some conservative views do not. A very great deal of that does come down to how scripture is interpreted.

In the words of the warden in Cool Hand Luke --- "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

When you are ready to communicate I think that you would find that we have far more in common than you now believe.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 29, 2017

Celticroots said:
Of course life isn't going to be all lollypops and kittens, but to suggest that someone must go back to an abusive spouse is not right. For abusers, some will say they have changed to get their partner to come back to them, and then start the whole cycle of abuse over again. Abusers are about manipulation and control.

I remember reading a post from a woman who was in an abusive marriage, whose husband "repented" only to return to his behavior. She did the right thing, the courageous thing, and divorced him. If I were in her shoes, I'd do the same thing. Oh, and she also said that she was sick of being judged by those who had never been in her position. I am sure that others who have been in abusive relationships share her sentiment.

Obviously they need to do more than repent towards her. They need to repent towards the Lord Jesus Christ. Without that, there is no true healing. So I am not suggesting they run back into his arms at the first sign of worldly revival. Such sickness needs to be healed by Christ. But our life is not our own. We are bought and paid for with a price. Scripture says all those who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. I am not saying they should go back and be abused. No, no. I am saying they should heal their lives together with Jesus. It's the only way. If they are unwilling to change, then the other partner needs to stay away but not divorce them. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever say the Christian life is an easy one.

majj27 · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
It is not my standards. It is the Bible's. Please get your facts straight and stop assuming standards I supposedly place on Christianity.

Deleted... WAY too snarky. Apologies.

Kenny'sID · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
Yes. "Claim" meaning they say "I believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and rose 3 days later". Is that not the very basic understanding of being a Christian?

They "say"?...no, not my understanding at all, far from it. There are several threads on Faith only or "saying" we believe is all there is too it, but best not debate it here.

PeaceByJesus · Nov 29, 2017

Violet Edge said:
I never thought this would turn into a debate, nor did I intend it to. I genuinely thought I would receive Christian support that conservatism backs up Christian views. BUT it resulted in the exact opposite... ugh modern Christians *eye roll*

I could have told you. Welcome to Burger King Christianity: have it your way. you like it.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

JackRT said:
And most liberal Christians would say that their beliefs, values and standards support authentic Christianity whereas some conservative views do not. A very great deal of that does come down to how scripture is interpreted.

In the words of the warden in Cool Hand Luke --- "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

When you are ready to communicate I think that you would find that we have far more in common than you now believe.

I would love to communicate. Please, start off by explaining which conservative views do not support Christianity. And next, explain how conservatives are not interpreting scripture properly. Thanks.

Violet Edge · Nov 29, 2017

PeaceByJesus said:
I could have told you. Welcome to Burger King Christianity: have it your way. you like it.

Right. It's as if Christians these days are trying to make sense of scripture in a way that supports what they want. Example, Liberal: "Jesus loves and forgives homosexuals, so lets support and make legal gay marriage". Another example, "Jesus loves and forgives me even if I am homosexual, so it's fine -I'm forgiven". Stop twisting the truth, liberals.

Grip Docility · Nov 29, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Jesus was talking about His mission. He did not come to condemn (i.e. to bring judgment), but to save man from his sins on the cross and then conquer the penalty for our sins with raising from the dead. However, do not be mistaken: Jesus condemned sins plenty of times. See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 10:33.

For as Paul says, be not deceived,
The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

In fact, Jesus did die for us so as to give us a license to sin (or that we can sin and still be saved). That would make us just as bad as the Pharisees of whom Jesus condemned because they lived hypocritically.

Jesus died (gave Himself) for the church so as to present to Himself a church that is without spot, and who is holy and without blemish.

25 "even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

Jesus gave Himself for us (the church) so that He might redeem us from all iniquity (sin) and so that He will purify unto Himself a peculiar people who are zealous of good works.

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).

Right.

We’re the Sinners. He’s the Sinless.

He gave Himself for ALL Humanity! Hebrews 2:9

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