Liberal Christians

[BondiHarry]

The Pharisees were not a religious group, but a political party. Certainly they remained Pharisees after they came to faith, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea being the two known examples.

Really? Jesus apparently thought otherwise. http://www.bible-history.com/pharisees/PHARISEESJesus_and_the_Pharisees.htm

 

[lismore]

The Bible says that God is many things, love being one of them, but liberals tend to focus on the "love" and believe it excuses all manner of behaviour because to criticise would be un-"loving"...typically avoiding the fact that God is also judge who will one day cast the unrepentant into eternal fire.

A balanced message is required then? Neither just God's mercy or just his justice, but both.

 

[IisJustMe]

Really? Jesus apparently thought otherwise. Jesus and the Pharisees

Not a condemnation for being a Pharisee. Condemnation for being an unbeliever. Nicodemus and Joseph both became believers, as evidenced by their burying Christ's body just before the Sabbath. That didn't negate their being Pharisees. Just like Democrats and Republicans, there are good ones and bad ones, believers and unbelievers.

 

[BondiHarry]

Not a condemnation for being a Pharisee. Condemnation for being an unbeliever. Nicodemus and Joseph both became believers, as evidenced by their burying Christ's body just before the Sabbath. That didn't negate their being Pharisees. Just like Democrats and Republicans, there are good ones and bad ones, believers and unbelievers.

Jesus CONDEMNED certain Pharisee practices and beliefs ... when we come to Christ we abandon our former un-Godly ways and it is absurd to claim that the Pharisees were not a religious group when Jesus understood that they were.

 

[IisJustMe]

Jesus CONDEMNED certain Pharisee practices and beliefs ... when we come to Christ we abandon our former un-Godly ways and it is absurd to claim that the Pharisees were not a religious group when Jesus understood that they were.

Well, you feel free to call them what you want. The fact that they were one of four political viewpoints based on traditional Jewish teaching represented on the Sanhedrin shouldn't inhibit your view, I suppose.

 

[Leggomyegolas]

There wasn't any division between church and state back then. So the 4 political parties could just as well be called 4 denominations.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Liberal Christians seem to be more Christlike than Conservative ones in my honest opinion.

Definitely more loving and warm-hearted, has been my experience. I speak as one who leans toward the liberal, politically, but I hold very conservative religious beliefs. I am more comfortable in the conservative crowd when discussing Biblical doctrine, but more comfortable in the liberal crowd when socializing, or when discussing almost anything other than the Bible.

What this says to me is that conservatives would do well to work on their personalities and how they present the message. It has been my experience that people will not come to Christ or embrace sound doctrine if they feel that they are going to be rejected, judged, or in any way looked down upon. Not that all conservatives automatically would, but enough will to make it a legitimate fear.

Let me give an example: I was a teenage unwed mother. My backsliding led me back to the Lord and to church, where I was given a Bible because at the time I didn't have one. One woman who considered herself conservative saw me reading that Bible, and told me that the sight of it offended her. Because I was pregnant and unmarried, I was a sinner and had no right to read it! Was she correct? Of course not! My very conservative Sunday School class reacted in shock when I told them that story. If anyone NEEDS to be reading the Bible, it's a sinner!

But her attitude is what many unsaved may, unfortunately, mistake for something typical of a conservative.

 

[Leap]

One woman who considered herself conservative saw me reading that Bible, and told me that the sight of it offended her. Because I was pregnant and unmarried, I was a sinner and had no right to read it! Was she correct?

Possibly, yes:

"Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you." (Matt 7:6)

She may well have, understandably, looked upon you as cheapening something precious. The key is whether you are (or are hovering on the edge of being) a repentant sinner or not.

 

[Albion]

Liberal Christians seem to be more Christlike than Conservative ones in my honest opinion.

Everyone's entitled to his own opinion, whether it's based on reality or not, you know.

In this case, the facts don't square with the impression you have, however. Numerous studies have shown that conservatives give more to charity and volunteer their time and energy for charitable projects more than liberals do In my own opinion, liberal Christians and liberals in general are more active in trying to give other people's money to charity...which isn't charity at all when you think about it. It's actually politics in operation, not their religious convictions.

 

[Albion]

It has been my experience that people will not come to Christ or embrace sound doctrine if they feel that they are going to be rejected, judged, or in any way looked down upon. Not that all conservatives automatically would, but enough will to make it a legitimate fear.

Let me give an example: I was a teenage unwed mother. My backsliding led me back to the Lord and to church, where I was given a Bible because at the time I didn't have one. One woman who considered herself conservative saw me reading that Bible, and told me that the sight of it offended her. Because I was pregnant and unmarried, I was a sinner and had no right to read it! Was she correct? Of course not! My very conservative Sunday School class reacted in shock when I told them that story. If anyone NEEDS to be reading the Bible, it's a sinner!

But her attitude is what many unsaved may, unfortunately, mistake for something typical of a conservative.

I think you've hit the nail on the head in your closing comment. You have NOT been describing a Conservative but rather a Liberal's stereotype of a Conservative.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Are there really any good old fashioned conservative Christians out there anymore? If so, I want to find you! lol. I am so sad to see the Christian population has become so liberal in their morals, thinking etc....

Me too. Frankly, I think the terms 'liberal' and 'True Christian' are an oxymoron . This is assuming being liberal means what you have indicated with loose morals, thinking, ideology, and lifestyle choices. Jesus said the way to eternal life was VERY NARROW which few find -- that alone should cause concern for the many that attend Christian Churches yet are perfectly willing being infused with the cultures philosophies on living. I find it a shame that our Culture with its many land-mines dont pose any danger for those who label themselves : 'Christian' .

When i read the New Testament , I see Jesus being anything but Liberal (except when his righteous anger came out , liberally, against the Temple Money Changers) ...and definetly a conservative Evangelical by Nature and Character .

Im afraid that Satan has done a good job of pulling the veil over Church- goers eyes , Mind, and Heart....to distance them from an obedient committed life to Christ. In fact, i was at that place myself for quite awhile until God opened my blind eyes and pridefilled heart .

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Possibly, yes:

"Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you." (Matt 7:6)

She may well have, understandably, looked upon you as cheapening something precious. The key is whether you are (or are hovering on the edge of being) a repentant sinner or not.

I think the fact that I was going to church and had begun reading the Bible would indicate a desire to repent. How is an attitude of "you're swine, and you're not worthy of anything holy," going to lead a sinner to salvation? The verse you quote is true, and I have seen what swine do with pearls, but I don't think that should be *said* to the person, just in case there is that desire to repent, but the judgmentalism turns them away.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I think you've hit the nail on the head in your closing comment. You have NOT been describing a Conservative but rather a Liberal's stereotype of a Conservative.

I think you're correct, mostly, but the previous "pearls before swine" comment makes me wonder.

 

[Albion]

I think you're correct, mostly, but the previous "pearls before swine" comment makes me wonder.

Let's be clear that it wasn't I who used that phrase, please.

You didn't say what reading it made you wonder, but we probably had the same feeling--just too strong a comment to use here, even if it does come from the Bible.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Let's be clear that it wasn't I who used that phrase, please.

You didn't say what reading it made you wonder, but we probably had the same feeling--just too strong a comment to use here, even if it does come from the Bible.

Right, it wasn't you.

It made me wonder about the goal of salvation, versus the goal of feeling superior to others. I heard a story about a former prostitute who wanted to join a church. The congregation was adamant against having such a woman among them, until one deacon stood up and stated, "I suppose when we prayed for Christ to save sinners, we forgot to specify which sins."

Someone who tells a teenage unwed mother she should not be reading the Bible is not, IMO, doing the Lord's work. Just the opposite. That person can be turning people away from Him. I am glad to be educated enough to know now that the woman who said that to me is NOT a typical conservative, but the "pearls before swine" comment could cast doubt on that, if I didn't know better.

This said, I'll admit I felt similarly when a famous musician known to be a heavy pot smoker was performing on TV, and closed his show with a hymn. At the time I thought, "He shouldn't be singing hymns if he smokes pot." Now I correct that thought to, "He shouldn't smoke pot, if he's going to be singing hymns." The book of James, with its fountain gushing with both bitter and sweet water, comes to my mind.

 

[whitebeaches]

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[Leap]

I think the fact that I was going to church and had begun reading the Bible would indicate a desire to repent.

Not necessarily. There are a fair number of liberal "churches" looking to twist scripture to their ends - seeing you in that condition it would be reasonable to assume such about you. Personally I am sick of having liberals wave Bibles around claiming (falsely) that it allows and justifies their perversions, degenerations and failings, so I can well understand her response.

How is an attitude of "you're swine, and you're not worthy of anything holy," going to lead a sinner to salvation?

Nobody deserves anything holy - judgementalism is intrinsic to Christianity because it says that all must repent. The difference is whether you approach in a spirit of repentance. If you are showing no signs of that, suspicion is a reasonable response.

 

[Your Friend Jacob]

Right here lol...very conservative good or bad thing don't know nor care...depends on your view of it I suppose....I am not a left brained thinker therefore far from liberal

 

[A New Dawn]

Definitely more loving and warm-hearted, has been my experience. I speak as one who leans toward the liberal, politically, but I hold very conservative religious beliefs. I am more comfortable in the conservative crowd when discussing Biblical doctrine, but more comfortable in the liberal crowd when socializing, or when discussing almost anything other than the Bible.

What this says to me is that conservatives would do well to work on their personalities and how they present the message. It has been my experience that people will not come to Christ or embrace sound doctrine if they feel that they are going to be rejected, judged, or in any way looked down upon. Not that all conservatives automatically would, but enough will to make it a legitimate fear.

Let me give an example: I was a teenage unwed mother. My backsliding led me back to the Lord and to church, where I was given a Bible because at the time I didn't have one. One woman who considered herself conservative saw me reading that Bible, and told me that the sight of it offended her. Because I was pregnant and unmarried, I was a sinner and had no right to read it! Was she correct? Of course not! My very conservative Sunday School class reacted in shock when I told them that story. If anyone NEEDS to be reading the Bible, it's a sinner!

But her attitude is what many unsaved may, unfortunately, mistake for something typical of a conservative.

I have found Liberals to be no different from Conservatives, they are intolerant, just about different things. Very few liberals are truly liberal. I have met two truly liberal people in my years of living and of posting on discussion boards. One was in real life and one was on a discussion board. None of the others who considered themselves liberal were warm and inviting in the least. What I have experienced is that while conservatives may hold specific values, they are more than willing to lay aside judgment to welcome you into their homes and fellowship with you. Well, let me clarify, if they are truly Christians. Unfortunately, some people put more value on appearance than they do on Christ's commandment to love all people, to me, they are legalists and have not produced fruit of the Spirit. They earn a bad name for all Christians, and, also unfortunately, those are the ones the world looks at to make the determination that Christianity is bad.

I do not believe it is up to other people when someone comes to Christ. That is God's prerogative, alone. The Bible is clear that no one, or no thing, can tear us from His hand. When we are His, we are His forever. And everything that happens, happens on God's timeframe.

I think the fact that I was going to church and had begun reading the Bible would indicate a desire to repent. How is an attitude of "you're swine, and you're not worthy of anything holy," going to lead a sinner to salvation? The verse you quote is true, and I have seen what swine do with pearls, but I don't think that should be *said* to the person, just in case there is that desire to repent, but the judgmentalism turns them away.

What I think might be a problem here (and this is speaking without seeing what was going on or hearing what was said) is communication of ideas. All of us are depraved, and in that condition, we are not worthy of anything. None of us. It's not that it's being said as a judgment, but as a statement of fact. The Bible is clear that without God working on our hearts, we will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. So someone saying that you're not worthy of anything holy is not saying something about your character, but about your depraved nature, your standing with God. Even those who are saved aren't worthy, but they are saved because Christ died for their sins. There is definitely a language barrier between a Christian and a non-believer. Heck, often there's a language barrier between Christians, especially if they are new Christians.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Not necessarily. There are a fair number of liberal "churches" looking to twist scripture to their ends - seeing you in that condition it would be reasonable to assume such about you. Personally I am sick of having liberals wave Bibles around claiming (falsely) that it allows and justifies their perversions, degenerations and failings, so I can well understand her response.

True of course that being liberal is no excuse for twisting scripture. Neither is being conservative. And we all have "pervasions, degenerations and failings", i.e. we are all sinners. Only one thing can justify us, the blood of Christ. Anyone who looks down on another of God's children is like the older brother in the Prodigal Son, and needs to repent of the sin of spiritual pride.