Liberal Christians

[lismore]

Again, what is a Liberal Christian? If it was stated in other posts, please give the numbers. Thanks.

According to the dictionary 'liberal' has several definitions. For example:

1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

2. ( often initial capital letter

) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.

EXPAND4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.

10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.

11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.

12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.

13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.

14. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in politics or religion.
15. ( often initial capital letter

) a member of a liberal party in politics, especially of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Origin:
1325&#8211;75; Middle English < Latin l&#299;ber&#257;lis of freedom, befitting the free, equivalent to l&#299;ber free + -&#257;lis -al1

Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com

 

[lismore]

According to the dictionary 'liberal' has several definitions. For example:

if I could pick up on three:

free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
The bible says to be welcoming to strangers

given freely or abundantly

The bible says to freely give

of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

The early Christians were thrown to lions because they wouldnt submit to the tyrants of Rome. Christ not man is King

 

[christdiedforus]

if I could pick up on three:

free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

The bible says to be welcoming to strangers

given freely or abundantly

The bible says to freely give

of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

The early Christians were thrown to lions because they wouldnt submit to the tyrants of Rome. Christ not man is King

I don't think the dictionary can help in this discussion, thanks.

 

[lismore]

I don't think the dictionary can help in this discussion, thanks.

Getting the definition of a word definitely helps you to understand what it means.

God Bless

 

[BondiHarry]

Getting the definition of a word definitely helps you to understand what it means.

God Bless

Yes it can and now that we have it it is fairly clear the leftists in America claiming to be liberals are pretenders and not deserving of the term and the free market, Constitutionally restrained government advocates are the true liberals.

 

[VCViking]

According to the dictionary 'liberal' has several definitions. For example:

1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

2. ( often initial capital letter

) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.

3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.

EXPAND4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.

8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.

10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.

11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.

12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.

13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.

14. a person of liberal principles or views, especially in politics or religion.
15. ( often initial capital letter

) a member of a liberal party in politics, especially of the Liberal party in Great Britain.

Origin:
1325–75; Middle English < Latin l&#299;ber&#257;lis of freedom, befitting the free, equivalent to l&#299;ber free + -&#257;lis -al1

Liberal | Define Liberal at Dictionary.com

Thank you!

 

[christdiedforus]

Yes it can and now that we have it it is fairly clear the leftists in America claiming to be liberals are pretenders and not deserving of the term and the free market, Constitutionally restrained government advocates are the true liberals.

And that is exactly what I was alluding to. Considering the close mindedness of some that are even here who call themselves liberal. Nothing that you attempted to adhere to the majority of current day liberals either religiously or politically is applicable to the behavior that is exhibited.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

Well there is such a thing as being 'liberal about theology', or 'taking a very liberal approach to interpreting the Bible', and there are things like 'modern higher criticism' and 'liberal stances on abortion and sexuality', which, taken together, form a profile of 'liberal religious folk'

At some point one is so 'liberal' or 'free' with a text that it is debatable one is even interpreting the text, or one is so loose with theology that one can't say anything distinct about it (let alone intelligibly claim that it is Christian), or one's tolerant and free attitude is such that one doesn't bother to discourage various sins or identify sins as sinful, in which case it makes no sense to call it Christian morality.

But all of us might be 'liberal' or 'free' in various good ways. At some point it does cross the line. We can make a basic profile describing those who are distinctly 'liberal' and 'free' with doctrine, religion, morality, and approach to the Bible, to the point of not being recognizably Christian in their expressions.

 

[lismore]

Yes it can and now that we have it it is fairly clear the leftists in America claiming to be liberals are pretenders and not deserving of the term and the free market, Constitutionally restrained government advocates are the true liberals.

I think America was founded as a liberal country reacting against the conservatism of the British Monarchy.

I'm sorry I'm not up enough on the American political scene to have an opinion as to where you are now, but I do know that some Americans see themselves as Conservative. This is confusing, you dont have a hereditary monarchy, aristocracy, Lords and Bishops in parliament etc, all the hallmarks of the British Conservatives.

 

[BondiHarry]

I think America was founded as a liberal country reacting against the conservatism of the British Monarchy.

I'm sorry I'm not up enough on the American political scene to have an opinion as to where you are now, but I do know that some Americans see themselves as Conservative. This is confusing, you dont have a hereditary monarchy, aristocracy, Lords and Bishops in parliament etc, all the hallmarks of the British Conservatives.

We have the same problem when we talk about 'football'.

In a nutshell, the American conservative believes in limited government, the liberty of the individual to pursue his dreams without undue interference from other men, low taxes, to be able to act on ones own will so long as one does not initiate the use of force or fraud against their fellow man.

The American liberal on the other hand apparently believes that government is wise and benevolent and should be the manager of society directing the activities of the citizen. They believe in high, progressive taxes and that the government managed economy is superior to a free market economy.

So in reality the American conservative of today is the liberal at the founding of our country.

 

[christdiedforus]

The American liberal on the other hand apparently believes that government is wise and benevolent and should be the manager of society directing the activities of the citizen. They believe in high, progressive taxes and that the government managed economy is superior to a free market economy.

So in reality the American conservative of today is the liberal at the founding of our country.

That is an accurate statement. So if the supposedly progressives had it their way we would regress to what we revolted against in 1776. That isn't progressive it is regressive and it certainly is not what has made this nation great and free. In fact most "liberals" even deny that this nation was founded by Christian men based on Christian ideals when the evidence is clearly against them. These people have gone so far as to revise history to their own design. Unfortunately many people have bought into the revision instead of finding the truth. The real facts are available but many people don't look, know how to look, or expend the effort to look. People like the late Howard Zen twist the truth or omit any of the goodness that has been generated here and only focus on the negative or flat out lie about events, people, or outcomes. It is very sad that a whole generation has been duped by these people. Yet in the end God will reveal the lies to be just that, lies.

 

[christdiedforus]

Again, what is a Liberal Christian? If it was stated in other posts, please give the numbers. Thanks.

It was/is ill defined. Therefore judge the fruit of the person no matter what they claim they may be and you will see what sort of tree they truly are. This is the only definitive test we have been given by Christ to make any discernment about ourselves and others. Truly what is a liberal or conservative Christian, no one really knows and those that claim they do are only fooling themselves.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

It was/is ill defined. Therefore judge the fruit of the person no matter what they claim they may be and you will see what sort of tree they truly are. This is the only definitive test we have been given by Chris to make any discernment about ourselves and others. Truly what is a liberal or conservative Christian, no one really knows and those that claim they do are only fooling themselves.

 

[ToBeInChrist]

I think I agree somewhat, in that, up to a point, these terms are poorly/ill defined.

On the other hand, broadly speaking, there is such a thing as taking one's interpretation of the counsel of Scripture very 'freely' or 'loosely', or otherwise 'cautiously'

 

[lismore]

So in reality the American conservative of today is the liberal at the founding of our country.

Thanks!

 

[a pilgrim]

Use this as a scale for balance:

Prov. 14
[12] There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are theways of death.

Either side, when man becomes the judge instead of clear scripture or clear scriptural principles, then there is a problem. Don't look at the current benefit of the "liberty" or the "restriction," look at the fruit in ten years.

The aim slightly off seems o.k. now, but the target completely missed is the proof that the puddin wasn't good!

 

[lismore]

I have been posting on the liberal sub-forum here for a couple of years.

The question I asked at first was if it was be possible to be a 'liberal Christian' and still love the Lord, seek his will, try to live according to the teachings of Jesus?

I have met many people on that forum with compassion, who love the Lord and love to share his teaching.

So yes.

I think a lot of the misunderstanding between Conservatives etc/ liberals is over interpretation, not dedication to the cause.

 

[BondiHarry]

I have been posting on the liberal sub-forum here for a couple of years.

The question I asked at first was if it was be possible to be a 'liberal Christian' and still love the Lord, seek his will, try to live according to the teachings of Jesus?

I have met many people on that forum with compassion, who love the Lord and love to share his teaching.

So yes.

I think a lot of the misunderstanding between Conservatives etc/ liberals is over interpretation, not dedication to the cause.

There are some passages that like 'thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal, put not your trust in princes (ie government) nor in the son of man in whom there is no help, a man shall not lay with a man as with a woman it is an abomination' that some professing Christians somehow manage to 'interpret' to mean a government controlled welfare state is the way we should care for the poor or that God is fine with gay marriage. A lot of the 'misunderstanding' comes from some of us adhereing to what God actually says while others want to adhere to what they wish God had said but did not.

 

[lismore]

There are some passages that like 'thou shalt not covet, thou shalt not steal, put not your trust in princes (ie government) nor in the son of man in whom there is no help, a man shall not lay with a man as with a woman it is an abomination' that some professing Christians somehow manage to 'interpret' to mean a government controlled welfare state is the way we should care for the poor or that God is fine with gay marriage. A lot of the 'misunderstanding' comes from some of us adhereing to what God actually says while others want to adhere to what they wish God had said but did not.

Reagrding the Welfare State, we have had one for 60+ years, it was a Christian Politician, James Keir Hardie that first proposed the idea. Is there a passage of scripture that specifically forbids a welfare state?

 

[christdiedforus]

Reagrding the Welfare State, we have had one for 60+ years, it was a Christian Politician, James Keir Hardie that first proposed the idea. Is there a passage of scripture that specifically forbids a welfare state?

In like manner is there one that specifically supports it?

In the contemporary world, where left-wing attitudes are regarded as normative, it is a given that capitalism, with its free market and profit motive, emanates from and creates selfishness, while socialism, the welfare state and the "social compact," as it is increasingly referred to, emanate from and produce selflessness.The opposite is the truth.

If you have any interest in what the truth is the article is here. Dennis is spot on and his ability to be clear is second to none. Personally I would rather die on my own than to live supported by any state. I don't think I am alone in that desire but if I am so be it.

http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=b45d81c0-1cd6-4c8c-89bf-a4bc49d84269