Liberal Christians

[christdiedforus]

There's an actual liberal approach to theology and Scripture,

Again what in the world does that even mean. That's ok I know when I am not wanted so you all can have it. Sorry to have bothered you.

 

[hedrick]

Again what in the world does that even mean. That's ok I know when I am not wanted so you all can have it. Sorry to have bothered you.

You're wanted, at least by me, if you are actually interested in understanding our ideas. On the other hand, if your continued questions represent a refusal to understand, as most of the other participants concluded long ago, then it's not worth the time of either of us.

[Incidentally, I have no idea how I ended up in a thread here. I typically wouldn't post in a conservative group. Perhaps there was some kind of pointer from the liberal group and I didn't realize I was going into a different group. It's not my intent to invade another congregational forum.]

 

[christdiedforus]

You're wanted, at least by me, if you are actually interested in understanding our ideas. On the other hand, if your continued questions represent a refusal to understand, as most of the other participants concluded long ago, then it's not worth the time of either of us.

I have yet to get any kind of explanation of what you all mean when you say "liberal way of thinking." If you can't understand why that is not clear then I don't know what else to say. Liberal way, liberal methodology, etc. is not self explanatory and leave much to be interpreted because there is no clarity there at all. Why would I keep asking if it were clear? There is nothing clear about saying that anymore than there is clarity is saying "the conservative way to think". Since people are individuals I have a hard time understanding how there is any specific way to think, behave, discern, or operate.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have yet to get any kind of explanation of what you all mean when you say "liberal way of thinking." If you can't understand why that is not clear then I don't know what else to say. Liberal way, liberal methodology, etc. is not self explanatory and leave much to be interpreted because there is no clarity there at all. Why would I keep asking if it were clear? There is nothing clear about saying that anymore than there is clarity is saying "the conservative way to think". Since people are individuals I have a hard time understanding how there is any specific way to think, behave, discern, or operate.

Liberal (and conservative) are just general purpose buzzwords. There are no hard and fast definitions for either. Both represent diverse groups of individuals. You can ask 10 different people for definitions of each and get 10 different answers.

Don't get frustrated because you don't understand. No one truly does!

 

[BondiHarry]

Liberal (and conservative) are just general purpose buzzwords. There are no hard and fast definitions for either. Both represent diverse groups of individuals. You can ask 10 different people for definitions of each and get 10 different answers.

Don't get frustrated because you don't understand. No one truly does!

However, if God has truly entered our lives, we will come to understand many things about His word by diligent study of the Bible and the guidance of His indwelling Holy Spirit. Carnal man cannot understand the Bible because he has no spiritual discernment nor will he believe the Bible because the wisdom of God will seem like foolishness to him. Carnal man CAN have a religion of course and that is one of the problems he has, he confuses having a relationship with a religion as having a relationship with God and Matthew 7 makes clear there is a difference between the two.

One telling difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative' Christians is the belief among the 'liberals' that the Bible is flawed but they are qualified not only to catch the 'flaws' but to correct them. Therefore we see support for things like abortion, gay marriage and the state run welfare state despite all the Bible has to say that condemns the shedding of innocent blood, the abomination of homosexual sex or that marriage is the union of a man and a woman or that coveting and stealing are sins and we as Christians are NOT to put our trust in princes (government).

None of us understands all that God has to say but if you are in God and He is in you then understanding will come in some things and trust in His word on the things we don't understand will also come.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

However, if God has truly entered our lives, we will come to understand many things about His word by diligent study of the Bible and the guidance of His indwelling Holy Spirit. Carnal man cannot understand the Bible because he has no spiritual discernment nor will he believe the Bible because the wisdom of God will seem like foolishness to him. Carnal man CAN have a religion of course and that is one of the problems he has, he confuses having a relationship with a religion as having a relationship with God and Matthew 7 makes clear there is a difference between the two.

One telling difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative' Christians is the belief among the 'liberals' that the Bible is flawed but they are qualified not only to catch the 'flaws' but to correct them. Therefore we see support for things like abortion, gay marriage and the state run welfare state despite all the Bible has to say that condemns the shedding of innocent blood, the abomination of homosexual sex or that marriage is the union of a man and a woman or that coveting and stealing are sins and we as Christians are NOT to put our trust in princes (government).

None of us understands all that God has to say but if you are in God and He is in you then understanding will come in some things and trust in His word on the things we don't understand will also come.

I have no comment on the rest, but no liberal I know of has tried to make a Biblical case for abortion being ok. And if they have I will say right here they are wrong.

Again, liberal and conservative are buzzwords constructed by our modern world. Neither one is actually in the Bible! We must keep it in our minds that this is so. They have no bearing on our faith. There is an entire spectrum of beliefs out there and the two terms do not even begin to describe them. I myself only use either term for general reference. To do much more is to drift into some pretty gaping inaccuracies.

 

[hedrick]

I've removed this posting. I believe a conservative who actually wants to know what liberal believe would be welcome in WWMC, and that discussions between groups (unfortunately) should occur in GT.

I'm also concluding that I've been overly optimistic by interpreting statements like "what does this mean?" as indicating an actual desire to understand.

I think there are large-scale misrepresentations of liberals views and motivations here, but the purpose of congregational forums, which I support, makes it difficult to figure out how to correct them. Any member of this forum who is interested in what liberal actually believe is welcome to contact me via PM, or to ask in an appropriate place.

 

[christdiedforus]

Any member of this forum who is interested in what liberal actually believe is welcome to contact me via PM, or to ask in an appropriate place.

I am not a member of any forum, rather I am a member of the human race and an adopted child in the family of God and I can tell you right now that I am not welcome in that forum nor was anything that I said anything less that interpreted in a negative way. Questions are not welcome and answers must coincide with those that post there, apparently. A warm reception I did not get. Openness apparently is only for those that conform, to what I have still yet to understand. In fact the brief encounter was very unsettling and has yet to make any sense to me at all. Never the less I can tell when it is time to move on. So I came over here to post because I figured that I may not get asked to leave or sit down and shut up either.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I am not a member of any forum, rather I am a member of the human race and an adopted child in the family of God and I can tell you right now that I am not welcome in that forum nor was anything that I said anything less that interpreted in a negative way. Questions are not welcome and answers must coincide with those that post there, apparently. A warm reception I did not get. Openness apparently is only for those that conform, to what I have still yet to understand. In fact the brief encounter was very unsettling and has yet to make any sense to me at all. Never the less I can tell when it is time to move on. So I came over here to post because I figured that I may not get asked to leave or sit down and shut up either.

You really are being overly dramatic. If you want answers, just show a little patience.

 

[hedrick]

You really are being overly dramatic. If you want answers, just show a little patience.

Well, it's hard to know what to do with someone who replies to everything with "what does that even mean?" and similar one-liners. Someone with better communications skills them me is going to have to help him.

Other members clearly thought he was being intentionally obtuse. I think they may be misjudging him, but that's the basis on which he was regarded as disruptive. But as a hint to anyone else that wants to understand: try asking a specific question. Maybe "What do you guys think about ... and why?", and not just sticking one-line comments after other people's postings. (But make it a question that we can answer without getting in trouble with the CF censors.)

 

[christdiedforus]

Someone with better communications skills them me is going to have to help him.

One liners are appropriate when the comments are not clear. There was no clarity and none was given. WalksWithChrist gave me the clearest answer of all and I wasn't even asking him to clarify a statement that he didn't make.

Obviously some folks here have preconceived ideas about what people say when they don't even know them. Sorry but I find that hard to deal with and if people don't like one liners, as you say, then they need to be clear in their statements. I clarified mine above yet no clarity has been given to me yet. Is that typical of most folks?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

One liners are appropriate when the comments are not clear. There was no clarity and none was given. WalksWithChrist gave me the clearest answer of all and I wasn't even asking him to clarify a statement that he didn't make.

Obviously some folks here have preconceived ideas about what people say when they don't even know them. Sorry but I find that hard to deal with and if people don't like one liners, as you say, then they need to be clear in their statements. I clarified mine above yet no clarity has been given to me yet. Is that typical of most folks?

I think some of the lack of clarity is due to this medium of communication being inherently awkward. Missing are inflections, tone, body language and other communication cues that we would normally use to make ourselves understood. And yes, you will find that some do indeed have preconceived ideas and respond accordingly. Both here and in WWMC.

And that you for the feedback. I'll take feedback wherever I can get it!

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I've removed this posting. I believe a conservative who actually wants to know what liberal believe would be welcome in WWMC, and that discussions between groups (unfortunately) should occur in GT.

I'm also concluding that I've been overly optimistic by interpreting statements like "what does this mean?" as indicating an actual desire to understand.

I think there are large-scale misrepresentations of liberals views and motivations here, but the purpose of congregational forums, which I support, makes it difficult to figure out how to correct them. Any member of this forum who is interested in what liberal actually believe is welcome to contact me via PM, or to ask in an appropriate place.

It seems to me any well thought out post should never be removed.

 

[BondiHarry]

I have no comment on the rest, but no liberal I know of has tried to make a Biblical case for abortion being ok. And if they have I will say right here they are wrong.

I have been assured by several 'liberal' Christians that a woman does have a right to end the life of the unborn child in her womb; that her choice trumps the life of that child. No Biblical case can be made for abortion but then no Biblical case can be made for marriage between members of the same sex, for sex between members of the same sex and for many other things that professing Christians choose to believe. If one has come to God I wonder how one can continue to cling to beliefs that do not come from God and indeed directly conflict with the word and will of God.

Again, liberal and conservative are buzzwords constructed by our modern world. Neither one is actually in the Bible! We must keep it in our minds that this is so. They have no bearing on our faith. There is an entire spectrum of beliefs out there and the two terms do not even begin to describe them. I myself only use either term for general reference. To do much more is to drift into some pretty gaping inaccuracies.

One is either a Christian or one is not. There are those who know they are not Christians, there are those who claim to be Christian but are not (and of these there are two types, those who knowingly act to undermine the gospel of Jesus Christ ie the wolves in sheeps clothing and there is also the Matthew 7 crowd which has convinced itself that they serve Jesus never mind they only partially obeyed Him and embraced the iniquity of the world in their lives) and there are those who truly are Christian and the Bible gives us quite a few clues about what a true Christian looks like. Scoffers like to bring up this silly 'no true Scotsman' argument to give birth to the idea that one can be a disobedient follower of Christ but Christ teaches otherwise ... "why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say". Ultimately there is no liberal or conservative Christian but only those who faithfully follow Him and those who will not preferring to embrace the doctrines of men over the doctrines of God.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have been assured by several 'liberal' Christians that a woman does have a right to end the life of the unborn child in her womb; that her choice trumps the life of that child. No Biblical case can be made for abortion but then no Biblical case can be made for marriage between members of the same sex, for sex between members of the same sex and for many other things that professing Christians choose to believe. If one has come to God I wonder how one can continue to cling to beliefs that do not come from God and indeed directly conflict with the word and will of God.



One is either a Christian or one is not. There are those who know they are not Christians, there are those who claim to be Christian but are not (and of these there are two types, those who knowingly act to undermine the gospel of Jesus Christ ie the wolves in sheeps clothing and there is also the Matthew 7 crowd which has convinced itself that they serve Jesus never mind they only partially obeyed Him and embraced the iniquity of the world in their lives) and there are those who truly are Christian and the Bible gives us quite a few clues about what a true Christian looks like. Scoffers like to bring up this silly 'no true Scotsman' argument to give birth to the idea that one can be a disobedient follower of Christ but Christ teaches otherwise ... "why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say". Ultimately there is no liberal or conservative Christian but only those who faithfully follow Him and those who will not preferring to embrace the doctrines of men over the doctrines of God.

I know some liberals who are not even Christians who believe firmly in the sanctity of life as much as I do. So I'm not sure how even a liberal Christian would feel that way about abortion.

As for your second paragraph, we're basically in agreement there.

 

[SharonL]

Present -

If you mean one that believes in God first, family and Country - believes in God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit - baptisim, filling of the Holy Spirit, communion and the Nicene Creed. Believes in the two Commandments that Jesus left us with - No other Gods before us, treat our neighbors as ourselves.

 

[CGL1023]

The book of 2 John has something to say On the subject of a

liberal vs conservative interpretation of the Word.

2 John 1:9-11 New King James Version

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine

of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the

doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this

doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet

him;

11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

We see from these passages that individuals either do have

the doctrine of Christ or they do not (one or the other).

There will not be multiple Doctrines of Christ; there will

be only one. With all the false doctrine floating around

in the world, it may be difficult to know the Doctrine of

Christ but it can be known based on verses 10 and 11.

 

[VCViking]

Are there really any good old fashioned conservative Christians out there anymore? If so, I want to find you! lol. I am so sad to see the Christian population has become so liberal in their morals, thinking etc....

What is a Liberal Christian?

 

[christdiedforus]

What is a Liberal Christian?

I think many of us would like to know clearly what that is or conservative as well. If you look around you'll see I asked that recently and got several good responses. In the end what liberal or conservative are is ill defined. Therefore I just say that we must be Christ's and that makes us Christians. Now we either follow Him or we don't. Any deviation makes us something less than a follower of the Savior.

 

[VCViking]

Again, what is a Liberal Christian? If it was stated in other posts, please give the numbers. Thanks.