Levels of EvC belief

[Strathos]

What you're not getting is that even if it is temporary, it shows a consistent history leaving only two possible options: either it actually happened or it was deliberately arranged to deceive us.

 

[dad]

What you're not getting is that even if it is temporary, it shows a consistent history leaving only two possible options: either it actually happened or it was deliberately arranged to deceive us.

Not at all. If we do not reject His word and record, how would we be deceived? If we do...how would we NOT be deceived? Deception is the main business of demon possessed so called science.

 

[Strathos]

Not at all. If we do not reject His word and record, how would we be deceived? If we do...how would we NOT be deceived? Deception is the main business of demon possessed so called science.

Scientific results can be replicated by anyone with the right equipment. If you investigated for yourself you would find out that nature contains this information. You can call it all a lie, but that means you are calling nature itself a lie.

 

[pitabread]

I believe dandelions should be sprayed in the fall when you don't see them, not in the Spring when you do.

My liberal city has a 'no spray' policy regarding dandelions on public greenways. This guarantees that all adjacent properties will be seeded by these green spaces and thus will need to spray every season. And because Ortho and other companies want to sell more chemicals their tv ads show people happily spraying flowering dandelions in the Spring, thus guaranteeing that they will never rid themselves of dandelions and will continue to pour gazillions of gallons of Weed-B-Gone into the environment every year.

Funny... It's almost like you are suggesting that what is "obvious" may not necessarily be what is correct.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Funny... It's almost like you are suggesting that what is "obvious" may not necessarily be what is correct.

I think that's what you are suggesting.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Other people might have the same experiences with a different response.
Image any of your family members becoming "more like you" after the same experience?
Likely the thought wouldn't even cross your mind.

That doesn't diminish the value of my experiences to me personally.

I wish that my late brother and sister had been more like me regarding their health. They might be alive today.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Not at all. If we do not reject His word and record, how would we be deceived?

By the deity you worship, or even an entity posing as it. The basis of your religion depends upon the Christian god being honest about the afterlife, etc., on top of it actually existing. If it did exist but lied to you about the afterlife, you'd view that as pretty close to as terrible, if not worse, than the deity not existing at all.

If we do...how would we NOT be deceived?

If the deity doesn't actually exist, or if it is dishonest, rejecting its word means you wouldn't be deceived.

Deception is the main business of demon possessed so called science.

And yet, are you doing your part by performing exorcisms in the streets? I'm not kidding, the NT commands its followers to do that.

 

[SkyWriting]

And yet, are you doing your part by performing exorcisms in the streets? I'm not kidding, the NT commands its followers to do that.

This is a historical account:

10 uAnd he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.

If completely accurate and literal, it still only literally includes 12 people.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This is a historical account:

10 uAnd he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every affliction.

If completely accurate and literal, it still only literally includes 12 people.

-_- you assumed my reference was Matthew 10, but I was actually looking at the verses from Luke 10, in which Jesus grants 72 disciples the authority to cast out demons, etc.

Plus, Matthew 17: 14-20 shows that exorcising demons will not work if the person performing it is not a true believer, making the activity also a test of faith. Is there any reason given that you would conclude the same doesn't apply today?

Plus, Ephesians directs believers to treat all people kindly, and hope that YHWH has mercy on them and drives demons out of them if need be. I view this as the same as any exorcism; they need not be elaborate and most of the ones in the bible aren't.

Plus, plenty of people do view these verses as commands for all followers; with such variable interpretations and translations, it can become difficult to have any certainty of what the bible actually says.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

-_- you assumed my reference was Matthew 10, but I was actually looking at the verses from Luke 10, in which Jesus grants 72 disciples the authority to cast out demons, etc.

Plus, Matthew 17: 14-20 shows that exorcising demons will not work if the person performing it is not a true believer, making the activity also a test of faith. Is there any reason given that you would conclude the same doesn't apply today?

Plus, Ephesians directs believers to treat all people kindly, and hope that YHWH has mercy on them and drives demons out of them if need be. I view this as the same as any exorcism; they need not be elaborate and most of the ones in the bible aren't.

Plus, plenty of people do view these verses as commands for all followers; with such variable interpretations and translations, it can become difficult to have any certainty of what the bible actually says.

God's will for the individual is spiritually discerned (spirit-led), not literally dictated. Different members of Christ's body have different abilities and functions, and are exercised as God wills. God and Christ are more concerned with those they have called than those we have tried to call.

 

[RealityCheck01]

17 May 2018 dad: Quote what God told us about tree rings so this does not become a lie.

Genesis 2
"Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed". Some unspecified time later, there is the eating of a fruit from one of those trees. It is reasonable to assume that at some time other fruit was eaten but not to fantasize that this happened a week after Eden was planted.

Genesis 8
"But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf!"

That is 1 occasion in which there is an implication of an olive tree growing in a week. No mention of the rings inside that tree. No mention of that olive tree or any other olive tree being used in modern dating . I have seen other people guessing that the fresh olive leaf was a survivor of the flood. Or even an olive tree growing under water! (miles under water?).

Bristlecone pines are dated to be older than the flood which should have killed them.

The Great Basin bristlecone pine (P. longaeva) has the longest life span of any conifer and is likely the oldest non-clonal tree on Earth. A stand of these pines on Wheeler Peak in eastern Nevada is known to contain several trees over 3,000 years old and was the site of the Prometheus tree, which was cut down and dated to be just under 5,000 years old. The Methuselah tree of the White Mountains of California is around 4,850 years of age and was once thought to be the oldest living bristlecone pine. It was surpassed in 2012 by the discovery of a nearby tree that is estimated to be more than 5,060 years old. Of the Rocky Mountain bristlecone pines (P. aristata), the oldest known individual is estimated to be over 2,480 years old.

17 May 2018 dad: Give your sources and evidence that the geological history of Oklo did not happen as geologists have found it to happen.

14 May 2018 dad: A lie that there is only a belief in past radioactivity.
14 May 2018 dad: Give your evidence that there the "different former nature allowed fast fast deposition".
14 May 2018 dad: Deep ignorance about seasons and a "religion is showing" lie.
15 May 2018 dad: A fantasy that summer only happens now (that is not what physics or the Bible says) !
15 May 2018 dad: How a fantasy of time changing to make layer deposition faster is deluded.
15 May 2018 dad: A "religiously assign dates" lie about radiometric dates of meteorites.
15 May 2018 dad: An unsupported fantasy of no radiation at all in the past?
15 May 2018 dad: An "items of faith", etc. lies.
15 May 2018 dad: A delusion of trees growing in weeks producing tree rings.
15 May 2018 dad: Some "Historical records? " gibberish.
15 May 2018 dad: A couple of lies about the Oklo natural nuclear fission reactor.
15 May 2018 dad: 7 years of total failure of showing that the Oslo natural nuclear reactor was not a natural nuclear reactor.
16 May 2018 dad: Unsupported rants about "magic" do not show that the geological history of Oklo did not happen
17 May 2018 dad: A lying question because he cited the evidence of a geologist giving the Oklo geological history!

 

[dad]

Scientific results can be replicated by anyone with the right equipment. If you investigated for yourself you would find out that nature contains this information. You can call it all a lie, but that means you are calling nature itself a lie.

No, nature is fine. Temporal, but great.

 

[dad]

By the deity you worship, or even an entity posing as it. The basis of your religion depends upon the Christian god being honest about the afterlife, etc., on top of it actually existing. If it did exist but lied to you about the afterlife, you'd view that as pretty close to as terrible, if not worse, than the deity not existing at all.

I trust Jesus, who laid down his life for me. No geologist did that for me.

If the deity doesn't actually exist, or if it is dishonest, rejecting its word means you wouldn't be deceived.

People I trust died to verify Jesus lived and died and rose from the dead. Only God could do that.

And yet, are you doing your part by performing exorcisms in the streets? I'm not kidding, the NT commands its followers to do that.

There is a time and place for everything. Right now I'm trying to exorcise science!

 

[PsychoSarah]

I trust Jesus, who laid down his life for me. No geologist did that for me.

Tons of people have had various individuals lay down their lives for them. -_- that usually doesn't end it worship.

People I trust died to verify Jesus lived and died and rose from the dead. Only God could do that.

There are martyrs for pretty much every religion.

There is a time and place for everything. Right now I'm trying to exorcise science!

Can an abstract concept like a field of study be possessed?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

No. It means there is 1% uncertainty. Not being certain of something being the case does not imply being certain something isn't the case.

Analogously, not believing in God does not imply believing there is no God.

Hey ty I honestly didnt get my head around that till you clarified it.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hey ty I honestly didnt get my head around that till you clarified it.

It's one of those logical issues that atheists encounter a lot on religious forums

 

[dad]

Can an abstract concept like a field of study be possessed?

Well, can it be inspired? If so, then yes, that inspiration can be from spirits not of God. By the results we know. The end result of the inspiration of science about origins is demonic fables.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nine.

 

[Inkfingers]

6 is the closest to my view, which is that the universe is billions of years old, the earth is around 4 or 5 billion years old, and that life evolved....with the whole process of the universe, including evolution, directed and guided by the Logos.

 

[pitabread]

Nine.

Odd, didn't you claim in another thread you're not a Young-Earther?