• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Letter from Elder Evthymios of Kapsala of Mt. Athos on Coronavirus

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,651
3,637
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟274,013.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I watched the video by Father Peter regarding this letter a couple of days ago. I will post the letter and the video. I thought it was important to share here.

Elder Evthymios is a spiritual son of Saint Paisios. This letter was written/came out on April 14, 2020.

The letter:

The critical days that we are traversing and the sacredness of the days of Holy Week command rather silence and prayer.

Nevertheless, because some opinions were recently circulated under my name on the internet, I shall mention the following so that the truth may be re-establish and harm be avoided:

I have never told people to store food because of an impending war, and I have never prophesied the end of the threat of the virus, as some have irresponsibly and falsely diffused.

Also, without my permission they have posted my discussions with inexact and self-contradictory views of mine concerning the coronavirus, which caused questions. My views are clear in what follows. They are completely personal, without any desire of imposing them on others.

To the many unbearable problems which men have, the threat of the virus has now been added too, which has ended up a nightmare. People suffer more from their fear, panic, and involuntary reclusion than they do from the virus.

The [Greek] state has taken protective measures, but the Church has her own means of confronting the virus. Now, humbled as never before, weakened and bound by the state, she is unable to grant them to her faithful.

In older times and in similar cases of deadly epidemics, she would perform sanctifications of the waters (αγιασμός) and go out in procession with the sacred icons and holy relics. Why should these not be done today as well? “Is the Lord’s hand unable” to help us in these days too (cf. Is. 59:1)?

During the third decade of the twentieth century, my village was struck by a plague which killed fifty little children in a few days. They could not dig the graves fast enough.

Then they brought the skull of Saint Charalampes from Saint Steven’s in Meteora and the plague immediately ceased.

Ever since the Lord performed the Mystical Supper and handed down the most holy mystery of the Divine Eucharist, the world-saving Divine Liturgy has not ceased to be celebrated to this day.

Neither Diocletian, nor the Turks, nor the communists in Russia, nor the Germans during the years of the occupation managed to stop the Divine Liturgy and the faithful from approaching Holy Communion.

And now, with the fear of the virus, the churches have closed down and the faithful are deprived of the saving grace of the mysteries, of which they have so great a need. On the contrary, while everyone here [in Greece] remains fearfully silent, in the Orthodox Churches of Serbia, Bulgaria, and Georgia divine worship continues unhindered, the churches are open, Divine Liturgy is celebrated, and the faithful are not afraid of being affected by the virus.

The protective measures employed by the present government are unconstitutional, unbearable, extreme, and unfair to the Greek Orthodox, while they have also created an atmosphere of terrorism, which the media aggravate.

Yes,the virus exists and we must protect our health and the health of those around us. Fear, however, must vanish, because when man is in a state of fear he cannot think and act rationally and discreetly.

In a similar case, when the eruption had occurred at Chernobil, people had then panicked and were examining the vegetables and fruits in order to eat those that had the least exposure to radiation.

When Saint Païsios was asked, he said that we should do the sign of the cross and eat fearlessly, which he himself first did, setting an example.

Were he alive today, it would be inconceivable for us to see him wearing a mask and gloves, carrying a little bottle of alcohol in his pocket and avoiding people or speaking to them from a distance.

He would surely be pacifying the people, he would be helping them put away fear, and most of all he would be saddened by the closing of the churches. Such a fear is unbefitting for Christians inspired by the example of the God-Man and by the Martyrs of our faith.

Many are anxiously expecting the defeat of the coronavirus by the invention of the vaccine, which will be obligatory for all. As for us, we refuse to be vaccinated.

Whoever is afraid, let him receive as many vaccines as he likes, but he should know that they may produce unforeseen and grave side-effects, as was the case a few years with the vaccines against the bird flu done to children, many of whom became paralysed.

Likewise, many of those who received the vaccine against hepatitis B contracted multiple sclerosis, and the same happens with other vaccines as well. Unless God guard us, what can vaccines and medicine do?

The godless Kazantzakis was vaccinated so as to be protected from cholera during a trip of his, and he still fell ill.

We have superior vaccines and the “medicine of immortality”, the holy Mysteries. We have time-tested doctors, specialists on viruses, Saint Charalampes, Saint Bessarion of Dousikou Monastery, who are for the plague, and so many other saints. Now, however, with the strict limitations the people remains helpless and uncomforted.

And while everyone is struggling to confront the virus, some people have other things in mind and as their goal. Top doctors and scientists are pointing out that what is happening is a discipline test: the goal is to manipulate the people in the direction they want.

This seemed strange and incredible until recently, but it is not imaginary, since men are now publicly saying that “The coronavirus pandemic has brought to the fore the need for a world-wide democratic government” (George Papandreou) and proposing that “each man have on him a microchip with biometrical data in relation to this virus or to other epidemic measurements” (Evangelos Venizelos).

These people are openly speaking of mark [of the Antichrist] and world-wide dictatorship, but do we get it? And what are we doing? Saint Païsios has spoken and written so much about this topic.

Can we possibly trust these men who have enslaved us to the foreign lenders and who are now leading us into slavery to the Antichrist?

Foretelling the future hardships, Saint Païsios would emphasise: “Only with a good spiritual life shall we make it through”. God has permitted this great trial because our sins.

We have need for sincere repentance, inexhaustible patience, and unceasing prayer, which strengthens our faith. We wish our brethren a good Resurrection under whatever circumstances.

May the Risen One, the Lord of life and Vanquisher of death, comfort and enlighten all of us by the light of His Resurrection, and may He give power and endurance to His people. By His grace may we arrive at the day of our deliverance from sin and from all evils. Amen.

With pain of heart

And sincere brotherly love,

Priestmonk Euthymius

Video:
 
Last edited:

archer75

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2016
5,931
4,650
USA
✟301,272.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
What the Elder says here doesn't really address what's happening.

At first he says that we must protect the health of those around us, but then goes on to suggest that St. Paisios wouldn't wear a mask or use hand sanitizer, which means we shouldn't either.

But when we talk about feeding the poor, we always say that it's WE who have to do it in the name of the Lord. Not for some other "professional" Christians.

So...why exactly should we not wear masks to protect others? We should. This thing is extremely contagious, even when people have no symptoms.

He says we shouldn't live in fear, but then suggests that using precautions...is the same as living in fear? It's not. Not any more than driving carefully to avoid killing people is.

God often acts through people. No? Why can't we ask God to work through us, despite our weaknesses, to protect people?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Paidiske
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,514
New York
✟227,464.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
At first he says that we must protect the health of those around us, but then goes on to suggest that St. Paisios wouldn't wear a mask or use hand sanitizer, which means we shouldn't either.
He is refering to the irrational fear some have and the draconian enforcement by the law.
It would be odd for St. Paisios to give spiritual advice to one of his spiritual children while standing 10 feet away wearing a surgical mask. Likewise with today's policies in Greece a casual conversation in the open would have him arrested or heavily fined.
The policies of the Greek state such as texting a message to a government phone number for an authorization code for you to go to the super market or be harassed by cops and fined is over the top. Fines of 150-5000 Euros for a populace with high unemployment and an average monthly salary of 800€ is preposterous. Whose going to pay half their annual salary because they got caught on the sidewalk talking to their neighbor?
And no exit plan except for "big brother" (the EU) to give them a vaccine in a few months while times past the church would have a procession and soecial prayers offered.
 
Upvote 0

archer75

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2016
5,931
4,650
USA
✟301,272.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
He is refering to the irrational fear some have and the draconian enforcement by the law.
It would be odd for St. Paisios to give spiritual advice to one of his spiritual children while standing 10 feet away wearing a surgical mask. Likewise with today's policies in Greece a casual conversation in the open would have him arrested or heavily fined.
The policies of the Greek state such as texting a message to a government phone number for an authorization code for you to go to the super market or be harassed by cops and fined is over the top. Fines of 150-5000 Euros for a populace with high unemployment and an average monthly salary of 800€ is preposterous. Whose going to pay half their annual salary because they got caught on the sidewalk talking to their neighbor?
And no exit plan except for "big brother" (the EU) to give them a vaccine in a few months while times past the church would have a procession and soecial prayers offered.
If the letter is specifically in reference to measures taken by the civil government of Greece, it would be helpful if it said so. Or if a note accompanying its circulation in English said so.

In an anglophone American context, it seems very easy to take this to mean "don't take precautions, because God rules the universe." That last bit is true, but we don't act at any other time like it therefore follows that we should be careless with others' lives.
 
Upvote 0

KernelPanic

Active Member
Jan 13, 2017
82
58
36
US
✟34,712.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Whoever is afraid, let him receive as many vaccines as he likes, but he should know that they may produce unforeseen and grave side-effects, as was the case a few years with the vaccines against the bird flu done to children, many of whom became paralysed.

Likewise, many of those who received the vaccine against hepatitis B contracted multiple sclerosis, and the same happens with other vaccines as well. Unless God guard us, what can vaccines and medicine do?
What utter anti-vax nonsense. There's been no link to hepatitis B and MS nor has there been any link to recent H1N1 vaccines and paralysis. You have to go back to 1976 where there was speculation that there was a slight risk.

Guillain-Barré Syndrome Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Hepatitis B Vaccine and Multiple Sclerosis History | Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

If he believes that vaccines are nonsense, there's no one stopping him from going into infected areas. Or maybe he should go visit the graves of those who died because there was no vaccine. I posted this before, but it bears repeating again.

Lessons from a Kansas graveyard: What a 1903 outbreak of diphtheria can teach us today
 
Upvote 0

Antoni

Active Member
Aug 17, 2019
210
427
NorthEast
✟66,338.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
What utter anti-vax nonsense. There's been no link to hepatitis B and MS nor has there been any link to recent H1N1 vaccines and paralysis. You have to go back to 1976 where there was speculation that there was a slight risk.

Guillain-Barré Syndrome Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Hepatitis B Vaccine and Multiple Sclerosis History | Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

If he believes that vaccines are nonsense, there's no one stopping him from going into infected areas. Or maybe he should go visit the graves of those who died because there was no vaccine. I posted this before, but it bears repeating again.

Lessons from a Kansas graveyard: What a 1903 outbreak of diphtheria can teach us today

The elder did not say that all vaccines are bad, he has made the point that not all vaccines are good or safe, which is a completely accurate statement. Not all vaccines are safe or necessary, and I do not allow any of my family members to get the yearly influenza vaccine or many of the other vaccines which are pushed on our children such as the HPV vaccine. I did however have my children get the MMR and certain other vaccines. Thus I am not anti-vax, but rather cautious and judicious in what is being jabbed into my loved one’s bodies.

I am an emergency physician in the New York City area, and I have seen the devastation this virus can cause. I spend my entire shift donned in full PPE and witness the entire gamut of severity in patients coming in, young and old. I wake up every day wondering if I will develop a fever and eventually end up like some of my colleagues, on a ventilator or in the morgue.

Nevertheless, the origins of this virus, the misinformation and misdirection given out by certain globalist agencies early on in this pandemic, the media-driven hysterical push for a vaccine (which will make some very rich and powerful people even more rich and powerful) and the denial of certain less costly and safe treatment options, are hallmarks of something possibly very sinister taking place. Especially when tied to an election year with a very polarizing and anti-globalist President of the US running for re-election. Also especially when you have people like Bill Gates, who has strongly advocated for depopulation in the past and whose vaccine record has been absolutely atrocious, at the helm. I would be very hesitant in taking any vaccine which is rushed out or tied into some tracking system, and whose long term effects are unknown and whose ties are with individuals and organizations which are godless. In fact, I wouldn’t take it.

I agree with the elder’s comments regarding not allowing fear to dominate us and allow us to lose faith. Truly, I say to you, I have seen 80 year olds with barely a sniffle with this disease and other young patients with no past medical problems dying. While the older are at much greater risk, it is a mystery who will die and who will remain asymptomatic. But should we live in fear? Did Christ not warn us what to expect as we march closer and closer to the end of time? Did He not tell us to have no fear? We will all die. Human life has 100% mortality rate. The question is, will we live a life of faith and of courage and trust in God? Will we forfeit our humanity for the illusion of safety? Is the quantity of years which are relatively a blip on the screen worth more than the quality of life? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Should we be careful and thoughtful and vigilant, considering our neighbors and those around us? Yes, we should, without losing our faith and courage. Should we, like sheep to the slaughter, follow false and godless teachers and run to them for an illusion of security to save us from a disease which still has many more unanswered questions than answers? I don’t believe so. There is more evil in this world than a human mind can begin to fathom. The human mind cannot scratch the surface of it. Better to put on the armor of God and put all our trust in Him, live as godly a life as possible, in repentance and charity, and if we catch this virus and get barely a sniffle, than Glory to God, for He has granted us more time to repent! And if we die, than Glory to God, for He has called us home to Him! May He forgive us our many sins and grant us great mercy.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

buzuxi02

Veteran
May 14, 2006
8,608
2,514
New York
✟227,464.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
If the letter is specifically in reference to measures taken by the civil government of Greece, it would be helpful if it said so. Or if a note accompanying its circulation in English said so.
The letter does mention the Greek state as the object of his concerns and even names two of the Greek politicians one calling for a global democracy and other with a method of tracking people who've had it.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,651
3,637
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟274,013.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
The elder did not say that all vaccines are bad, he has made the point that not all vaccines are good or safe, which is a completely accurate statement. Not all vaccines are safe or necessary, and I do not allow any of my family members to get the yearly influenza vaccine or many of the other vaccines which are pushed on our children such as the HPV vaccine. I did however have my children get the MMR and certain other vaccines. Thus I am not anti-vax, but rather cautious and judicious in what is being jabbed into my loved one’s bodies.

I am an emergency physician in the New York City area, and I have seen the devastation this virus can cause. I spend my entire shift donned in full PPE and witness the entire gamut of severity in patients coming in, young and old. I wake up every day wondering if I will develop a fever and eventually end up like some of my colleagues, on a ventilator or in the morgue.

Nevertheless, the origins of this virus, the misinformation and misdirection given out by certain globalist agencies early on in this pandemic, the media-driven hysterical push for a vaccine (which will make some very rich and powerful people even more rich and powerful) and the denial of certain less costly and safe treatment options, are hallmarks of something possibly very sinister taking place. Especially when tied to an election year with a very polarizing and anti-globalist President of the US running for re-election. Also especially when you have people like Bill Gates, who has strongly advocated for depopulation in the past and whose vaccine record has been absolutely atrocious, at the helm. I would be very hesitant in taking any vaccine which is rushed out or tied into some tracking system, and whose long term effects are unknown and whose ties are with individuals and organizations which are godless. In fact, I wouldn’t take it.

I agree with the elder’s comments regarding not allowing fear to dominate us and allow us to lose faith. Truly, I say to you, I have seen 80 year olds with barely a sniffle with this disease and other young patients with no past medical problems dying. While the older are at much greater risk, it is a mystery who will die and who will remain asymptomatic. But should we live in fear? Did Christ not warn us what to expect as we march closer and closer to the end of time? Did He not tell us to have no fear? We will all die. Human life has 100% mortality rate. The question is, will we live a life of faith and of courage and trust in God? Will we forfeit our humanity for the illusion of safety? Is the quantity of years which are relatively a blip on the screen worth more than the quality of life? What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Should we be careful and thoughtful and vigilant, considering our neighbors and those around us? Yes, we should, without losing our faith and courage. Should we, like sheep to the slaughter, follow false and godless teachers and run to them for an illusion of security to save us from a disease which still has many more unanswered questions than answers? I don’t believe so. There is more evil in this world than a human mind can begin to fathom. The human mind cannot scratch the surface of it. Better to put on the armor of God and put all our trust in Him, live as godly a life as possible, in repentance and charity, and if we catch this virus and get barely a sniffle, than Glory to God, for He has granted us more time to repent! And if we die, than Glory to God, for He has called us home to Him! May He forgive us our many sins and grant us great mercy.
Well said!
 
Upvote 0

KernelPanic

Active Member
Jan 13, 2017
82
58
36
US
✟34,712.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
First, I want to say thank you for putting your life on the line. You're a better person than I am in that regard. That being said....

The elder did not say that all vaccines are bad, he has made the point that not all vaccines are good or safe, which is a completely accurate statement. Not all vaccines are safe or necessary, and I do not allow any of my family members to get the yearly influenza vaccine or many of the other vaccines which are pushed on our children such as the HPV vaccine. I did however have my children get the MMR and certain other vaccines. Thus I am not anti-vax, but rather cautious and judicious in what is being jabbed into my loved one’s bodies.

Nevertheless, the origins of this virus, the misinformation and misdirection given out by certain globalist agencies early on in this pandemic, the media-driven hysterical push for a vaccine (which will make some very rich and powerful people even more rich and powerful) and the denial of certain less costly and safe treatment options, are hallmarks of something possibly very sinister taking place. Especially when tied to an election year with a very polarizing and anti-globalist President of the US running for re-election. Also especially when you have people like Bill Gates, who has strongly advocated for depopulation in the past and whose vaccine record has been absolutely atrocious, at the helm. I would be very hesitant in taking any vaccine which is rushed out or tied into some tracking system, and whose long term effects are unknown and whose ties are with individuals and organizations which are godless. In fact, I wouldn’t take it.
This is the definition of anti-vax. You're basing your claims to not get certain vaccinations because of "globalist" or "godless" entities without citing proper evidence that vaccines are bad. I would assume as a physician you would value peer-reviewed research, but that seems to not be the case here. It's a bit ironic you're claiming the "pro-vax" people are pursuing an agenda when you're simply repeating stuff I've seen many times in far-right political circles. It has no scientific or truthful basis to it whatsoever.

Don't push your conspiracy theories on your children. Get them properly vaccinated. If they catch something that was treatable, it'll be 100% on your head. Don't gamble their lives on herd immunity.
 
Upvote 0

Antoni

Active Member
Aug 17, 2019
210
427
NorthEast
✟66,338.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
First, I want to say thank you for putting your life on the line. You're a better person than I am in that regard. That being said....


This is the definition of anti-vax. You're basing your claims to not get certain vaccinations because of "globalist" or "godless" entities without citing proper evidence that vaccines are bad. I would assume as a physician you would value peer-reviewed research, but that seems to not be the case here. It's a bit ironic you're claiming the "pro-vax" people are pursuing an agenda when you're simply repeating stuff I've seen many times in far-right political circles. It has no scientific or truthful basis to it whatsoever.

Don't push your conspiracy theories on your children. Get them properly vaccinated. If they catch something that was treatable, it'll be 100% on your head. Don't gamble their lives on herd immunity.

Thank you for the kind words. It has been a tough several weeks at work. If not for God’s great mercy, I don’t know how I could endure. I give Him all the credit and glory.

As for your comments about what research I study and value, what facts and truths I have surmised, what concerns I have with regards to certain agendas, and how I should raise my children, I will respectfully say that I do not take such decisions carelessly or lightly, and rather do so with fear and trembling before the Lord.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dorothea
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,651
3,637
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟274,013.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
First, I want to say thank you for putting your life on the line. You're a better person than I am in that regard. That being said....


This is the definition of anti-vax. You're basing your claims to not get certain vaccinations because of "globalist" or "godless" entities without citing proper evidence that vaccines are bad. I would assume as a physician you would value peer-reviewed research, but that seems to not be the case here. It's a bit ironic you're claiming the "pro-vax" people are pursuing an agenda when you're simply repeating stuff I've seen many times in far-right political circles. It has no scientific or truthful basis to it whatsoever.

Don't push your conspiracy theories on your children. Get them properly vaccinated. If they catch something that was treatable, it'll be 100% on your head. Don't gamble their lives on herd immunity.
Not every vaccine is NECESSARY. That's the problem. And demanding someone to get their kids vaccinated with any vaccination that comes along is both irresponsible and tyrannical, if I may be so blunt. And you speak in black and white terms and paint with a broad brush. Some vaccines are necessary and are worth having, and some aren't, and that's up to the individual and his/her family.

In order to be an anti-vaxer, you would be against ANY vaccine, not one or two. Again, you speak in an extremist manner. If you think all vaccines are safe and fine, go for it. But don't demand others do the same.

And btw, my kids are all vaccinated, except for the HVP. It's not necessary and some studies have shown it's not safe. I wouldn't have given my sons the chicken pox vaccine if it weren't forced on us for them to go to a private school in PA. That vaccine IS NOT NECESSARY, imo. Vaccines that are necessary are for illnesses that are deadly, and cause many deaths. Therefore, I had no problem with my sons getting the meningitis shot.

I'm tired of people who think they have the right to tell others what to do, especially on this issue. And I'm equally tired of the knee-jerk reactions over vaccines in general. Try looking at issues with a bit more consideration and realize that a one-size-fits-all, black and white viewpoint is not real life.
 
Upvote 0

KernelPanic

Active Member
Jan 13, 2017
82
58
36
US
✟34,712.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
In order to be an anti-vaxer, you would be against ANY vaccine, not one or two. Again, you speak in an extremist manner. If you think all vaccines are safe and fine, go for it. But don't demand others do the same.
It really doesn't matter whether you're arguing against one or all of them. If the results say that these vaccines are safe and you're arguing against it without providing peer-reviewed research, then you're part of the anti-vax movement. Why do you think we've seen an uptick in measles after being almost eradicated for decades? Those parents may not have been opposed to every vaccine either, but they employed similar lines of thinking that it was "unnecessary" and "unsafe". So, as a result, their children now have to pay the price for their stupidity.

Just keep in mind the person who originally claimed that vaccines caused autism was outed as a fraud and the original paper was retracted.
And demanding someone to get their kids vaccinated with any vaccination that comes along is both irresponsible and tyrannical, if I may be so blunt. And you speak in black and white terms and paint with a broad brush. Some vaccines are necessary and are worth having, and some aren't, and that's up to the individual and his/her family.
Because quite frankly, it is a black and white issue. You're either protected against the disease or you get sick and possibly die. As evidenced by this thread alone, leaving it up to individuals is a terrible idea because they would rather listen to their own confirmation biases instead of looking at the actual results. It's so bad that vaccine hesitancy is viewed as one of the top global health threats.

Opposition to vaccine legislation is also a hallmark of the anti-vax movment. To be blunt, mandatory vaccines are a good thing because it protects society from people like you. The freedom to infect other people is not a freedom I respect.
And btw, my kids are all vaccinated, except for the HVP. It's not necessary and some studies have shown it's not safe.
Why would you say it's unnecessary? The HPV vaccine has been proven to provide protection against certain type of cancers caused by the virus.

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccines

"In the trials that led to the approval of Gardasil and Cervarix, these vaccines were found to provide nearly 100% protection against persistent cervical infections with HPV types 16 and 18 and the cervical cell changes that these persistent infections can cause. Gardasil 9 is as effective as Gardasil for the prevention of diseases caused by the four shared HPV types (6, 11, 16, and 18), based on similar antibody responses in participants in clinical studies. The trials that led to approval of Gardasil 9 found it to be nearly 100% effective in preventing cervical, vulvar, and vaginal disease caused by the five additional HPV types (31, 33, 45, 52, and 58) that it targets (6). In a 2017 position paper, the World Health Organization stated that the HPV vaccines have equivalent efficacy (7). The Cervarix vaccine has been found to provide partial protection against a few additional HPV types not included in the vaccine that can cause cancer, a phenomenon called cross-protection (8)."

Unless your child has known risk factors for developing blood clots, the vaccine is safe and many people get it every year. So why not protect your children in that case? Or, as I suspect, is it because that it prevents an STD and therefore treating it would somehow lead to sinful behavior? Not very good reasoning in any case.
I wouldn't have given my sons the chicken pox vaccine if it weren't forced on us for them to go to a private school in PA.
Why? Yes, most instances of chicken pox won't kill you, but it can lead to problems with the shingles virus in the future as your immune system weakens after age 60. Complications from singles can cause eye damage and can infect others who never had chickenpox or never had the vaccine. Why put anyone through that risk?
Vaccines that are necessary are for illnesses that are deadly, and cause many deaths.
Each infectious disease always presents the risk of death. Polio may not always kill you, but it might leave you disabled for the rest of your life. Most of these diseases don't have any treatments once you are infected, so the rational choice is to be protected so you don't get it.
Try looking at issues with a bit more consideration and realize that a one-size-fits-all, black and white viewpoint is not real life.
Viruses and bacteria don't really care about your viewpoints or beliefs. The best way to prevent infection is to stop it from happening. That is the reality in front of you.

Obviously at this point I can throw study after study at you and other people here, but you probably won't change your mind. It's rather sad to see so many Orthodox clergy and laity hopping on the anti-science, anti-vax bandwagon. The people who will pay the price for this won't be the vaccinated anti-vax parents, but their unvaccinated children.
 
Upvote 0

archer75

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 16, 2016
5,931
4,650
USA
✟301,272.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I know someone who has suffered seriously from shingles later in life. Now half his face is paralyzed. Of course, a chickenpox vaccine wasn't available when he was a kid, but I know he wishes it had been.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tapi
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,651
3,637
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟274,013.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It really doesn't matter whether you're arguing against one or all of them. If the results say that these vaccines are safe and you're arguing against it without providing peer-reviewed research, then you're part of the anti-vax movement. Why do you think we've seen an uptick in measles after being almost eradicated for decades? Those parents may not have been opposed to every vaccine either, but they employed similar lines of thinking that it was "unnecessary" and "unsafe". So, as a result, their children now have to pay the price for their stupidity.

Just keep in mind the person who originally claimed that vaccines caused autism was outed as a fraud and the original paper was retracted.

Because quite frankly, it is a black and white issue. You're either protected against the disease or you get sick and possibly die. As evidenced by this thread alone, leaving it up to individuals is a terrible idea because they would rather listen to their own confirmation biases instead of looking at the actual results. It's so bad that vaccine hesitancy is viewed as one of the top global health threats.

Opposition to vaccine legislation is also a hallmark of the anti-vax movment. To be blunt, mandatory vaccines are a good thing because it protects society from people like you. The freedom to infect other people is not a freedom I respect.

Why would you say it's unnecessary? The HPV vaccine has been proven to provide protection against certain type of cancers caused by the virus.

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) Vaccines

"In the trials that led to the approval of Gardasil and Cervarix, these vaccines were found to provide nearly 100% protection against persistent cervical infections with HPV types 16 and 18 and the cervical cell changes that these persistent infections can cause. Gardasil 9 is as effective as Gardasil for the prevention of diseases caused by the four shared HPV types (6, 11, 16, and 18), based on similar antibody responses in participants in clinical studies. The trials that led to approval of Gardasil 9 found it to be nearly 100% effective in preventing cervical, vulvar, and vaginal disease caused by the five additional HPV types (31, 33, 45, 52, and 58) that it targets (6). In a 2017 position paper, the World Health Organization stated that the HPV vaccines have equivalent efficacy (7). The Cervarix vaccine has been found to provide partial protection against a few additional HPV types not included in the vaccine that can cause cancer, a phenomenon called cross-protection (8)."

Unless your child has known risk factors for developing blood clots, the vaccine is safe and many people get it every year. So why not protect your children in that case? Or, as I suspect, is it because that it prevents an STD and therefore treating it would somehow lead to sinful behavior? Not very good reasoning in any case.

Why? Yes, most instances of chicken pox won't kill you, but it can lead to problems with the shingles virus in the future as your immune system weakens after age 60. Complications from singles can cause eye damage and can infect others who never had chickenpox or never had the vaccine. Why put anyone through that risk?

Each infectious disease always presents the risk of death. Polio may not always kill you, but it might leave you disabled for the rest of your life. Most of these diseases don't have any treatments once you are infected, so the rational choice is to be protected so you don't get it.

Viruses and bacteria don't really care about your viewpoints or beliefs. The best way to prevent infection is to stop it from happening. That is the reality in front of you.

Obviously at this point I can throw study after study at you and other people here, but you probably won't change your mind. It's rather sad to see so many Orthodox clergy and laity hopping on the anti-science, anti-vax bandwagon. The people who will pay the price for this won't be the vaccinated anti-vax parents, but their unvaccinated children.
It's simply NOT a black and white issue, and not all vaccines are safe. Period. That's right. And I could throw study after study that proves otherwise on certain vaccines. But this isn't the place. Reminder, if you want to debate, this forum isn't the place. You're in the Ancient Way. Try one of the other forums in this website.
 
Upvote 0