Let's Talk About Hell

[Der Alte]

Actually a guy who is supposedly being burned alive chatting with Lazarus about dipping His finger in some water for His tongue while the rest of Him is on fire?

That's pretty inconsistant!

Inconsistent with what?

Have you ever seen someone burning alive?

Yes, and I put of some of them in that position!

Have you ever burned yourself?

Many times! Once I received a 3d degree burn to the back of my right hand from a trip flare.

How about this, you PM me your phone number and arrange for me to ring you a certain time so you can heat up the stove and then We'll talk on the phone for about 20 seconds while you hold your hand on the stove and We'll see how you go!

Why don't you tell me where you live and I'll come over and put you through that?

And yes you said that you heard that some people say that when the Rich man asked for some water that it was possibly just an incoherent noise.
Since you mentioned it that makes you guilty of alligning yourself with those people who don't believe what is written!

Which puts you with the group unfamiliar with the truth. I did not say I agreed with that view. In fact I have been arguing just the opposite all along. And OBTW I did not say "incoherent noise." I said, "Some people say that the rich man's request for a drop of water to cool his burning tongue was an incoherent or irrational exclamation!"

I have found that it is very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it.

Now there is another possiblity and that is that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is exactly that.

A Parable!

Actually wasn't it you who said that Jesus only spoke to His disciples in parables?

Are you suggesting then that the Pharisees and the Scribes were Jesus disciples?

Wrong again! I said that Jesus spoke to the , noit his disciples, in parables!

I presented a lengthy discussion, with support from the ECF, why Luke 16:19-48 is not a parable!

If it is a parable, Jesus never identified it as a parable or explained it to his disciples! And if you goggle "rich man and Lazarus" you will see scores of explanations what the alleged parable, "really means."

Have you ever read Luke 16:1 and 17:1 which indicates who Jesus' audience was? In Luke 16:14 the Pharisees happened to overhear what Jesus was saying.

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

 

[martymonster]

So ets get this out in the open, did Jesus speak in parables and who was it to?

Bare this in mind though, whoever you decied that Jesus spoke to in parables, He spoke only to them in parables because He says so!

So who was it that He spoke only to in parables to then?

 

[Der Alte]

So ets get this out in the open, did Jesus speak in parables and who was it to?

Bare this in mind though, whoever you decied that Jesus spoke to in parables, He spoke only to them in parables because He says so!

So who was it that He spoke only to in parables to then?

Be careful that you actually read what I said! You are implying I said something I did not say!

Mat 13:10-11
(10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
(11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
​

 

[martymonster]

Be careful that you actually read what I said! You are implying I said something I did not say!

Mat 13:10-11
(10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
(11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
​

Christ spoke to the multitudes in parables and who was He speaking to when the Pharisees started deriding Him?

The multitudes!

That makes the story of the Rich man and Lazarus a Parable!

Yes, it is a parable, no matter how badly you want it to be otherwise!!!

Although, I'm pretty sure you won't let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

 

[Der Alte]

Inconsistent with what?

Yes, and I put of some of them in that position!

Many times! Once I received a 3d degree burn to the back of my right hand from a trip flare.

Why don't you tell me where you live and I'll come over and put you through that?

Which puts you with the group unfamiliar with the truth. I did not say I agreed with that view. In fact I have been arguing just the opposite all along. And OBTW I did not say "incoherent noise." I said, "Some people say that the rich man's request for a drop of water to cool his burning tongue was an incoherent or irrational exclamation!"

I have found that it is very helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it.

Wrong again! I said that Jesus spoke to the multitudes, not his disciples, in parables!

I presented a lengthy discussion, with support from the ECF, why Luke 16:19-48 is not a parable!

If it is a parable, Jesus never identified it as a parable or explained it to his disciples! And if you goggle "rich man and Lazarus" you will see scores of explanations what the alleged parable, "really means."

Have you ever read Luke 16:1 and 17:1, which indicates who Jesus' audience was? In Luke 16:14, the Pharisees happened to overhear what Jesus was saying.

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

Be careful that you actually read what I said! You are implying I said something I did not say!

Mat 13:10-11
(10) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
(11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
​

Christ spoke to the multitudes in parables and who was He speaking to when the Pharisees started deriding Him?

The multitudes! [WRONG!]

That makes the story of the Rich man and Lazarus a Parable!

Yes, it is a parable, no matter how badly you want it to be otherwise!!!

Although, I'm pretty sure you won't let the facts stand in the way of a good story.

Ignoring my posts and ignoring scripture will NOT make you right no matter how badly you want to be! Luke 16:1, see above, Jesus was speaking to his disciples! Luke 16:14, the Pharisees happen to overhear Jesus speaking to his disciples! Luke 17:1, see above, Jesus continues speaking to his disciples! The multitudes are nowhere mentioned in Luke 16 or 17!

 

[martymonster]

No sorry!

Christ was talking to the multitude and the Pharisees derided Him.

Unless you think the Pharisees were present when Christ was speaking plainly to His desciples and thus letting the Pharisees in on the secrets of the Kingdom of God?

Plus if Christ spoke to His desciples plainly as you like to make out then how is it that Christ says to His disciples that the time is coming when He shall speak of the Father plainly to them?

 

[Der Alte]

No sorry!

Christ was talking to the multitude and the Pharisees derided Him.

Unless you think the Pharisees were present when Christ was speaking plainly to His desciples and thus letting the Pharisees in on the secrets of the Kingdom of God?

Still ignoring what scripture clearly says! The multitudes are not mentioned in chap. 16 or 17.

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.​

And while Jesus was talking to his disciples.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.​

Jesus continued speaking to his disciples!

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

Plus if Christ spoke to His desciples plainly as you like to make out then how is it that Christ says to His disciples that the time is coming when He shall speak of the Father plainly to them?

I wasn't the one who brought this up. You misrepresented something I said about Jesus speaking only parables to the multitudes. Read my in-depth discussion of Luke 16:19-48 Here!

 

[martymonster]

Still ignoring what scripture clearly says! The multitudes are not mentioned in chap. 16 or 17.

Luk 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.​

And while Jesus was talking to his disciples.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.​

Jesus continued speaking to his disciples!

Luk 17:1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!​

I wasn't the one who brought this up. You misrepresented something I said about Jesus speaking only parables to the multitudes. Read my in-depth discussion of Luke 16:19-48 Here!

I've already shown that you've got nothing to back up you claims that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is anything but a parable.

What more can I do?

Bye!

 

[Der Alte]

I've already shown that you've got nothing to back up you claims that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is anything but a parable.

What more can I do?

Bye!

Ignoring scripture and saying, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!" over and over does NOT show anything! So being bereft of any cogent response you are free to go.

 

[SkyWriting]

..you've got nothing to back up you claims that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is anything but a parable...

Biblical parables are all actual events retold for education purposes.
While analogy in common, fiction is not needed by God to make His point.

 

[SkyWriting]

"Some people say that the rich man's request for a drop of water to cool his burning tongue was an incoherent or irrational exclamation!"

Sure. But your always screwed if you ignore the face value and substitute an alternate view.

I say the man's tongue felt like it was burning and he thought water would help. Keeping in mind that he can still talk. So it wasn't that bad.
He was miserable. His tongue seems to have got him in this mess, and his response is to ask others to
get him some water and
relay some messages to his bro's.

No effort to actually DO anything to help others.
Typical of the damned.
Reminds me of Dicaprio in Titanic.

 

[Der Alte]

"Some people say that the rich man's request for a drop of water to cool his burning tongue was an incoherent or irrational exclamation!"

Sure. But your always screwed if you ignore the face value and substitute an alternate view.

Are you implying that I, "ignore[d] the face value and substitute[d] an alternate view?"

I say the man's tongue felt like it was burning and he thought water would help. Keeping in mind that he can still talk. So it wasn't that bad.
He was miserable. His tongue seems to have got him in this mess, and his response is to ask others to
get him some water and
relay some messages to his bro's.

Being tormented in flames seems bad enough to me. Assuming that the rich man's tongue got him into his situation, is ignoring the face value and substituting an alternate view.

No effort to actually DO anything to help others.
Typical of the damned.
Reminds me of Dicaprio in Titanic.

Other than send a warning, what exactly do you think the rich man could have actually done from his position/circumstances?

 

[SkyWriting]

Are you implying that I, "ignore[d] the face value and substitute[d] an alternate view?"

Only if the shoe fits.

Being tormented in flames seems bad enough to me. Assuming that the rich man's tongue got him into his situation, is ignoring the face value and substituting an alternate view.

Though suggesting the idea as a possibility does not.

Other than send a warning, what exactly do you think the rich man could have actually done from his position/circumstances?

He already has asked for three things and was refused or denied due to circumstances. All three could have been a offer to help of some kind. They also may have been denied.
Instead he asked others to do things for him.

 

[Duckybill]

I've already shown that you've got nothing to back up you claims that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is anything but a parable.

What more can I do?

Bye!

The parables teach Truths indeed!

Luke 16:23-26 (NKJV)
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

 

[martymonster]

The parables teach Truths indeed!

Luke 16:23-26 (NKJV)
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

Um sorry, what was your point?

 

[Duckybill]

Um sorry, what was your point?

That eternal punishment is real, terrible, hot, and a permanent nightmare come true.

 

[martymonster]

That eternal punishment is real, terrible, hot, and a permanent nightmare come true.

Ha!
Believe whatever you want, it's your loss.

 

[Duckybill]

Ha!
Believe whatever you want, it's your loss.

What loss? Could it be that Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell? Sure makes you wonder.

 

[Der Alte]

[ . . . ]He already has asked for three things and was refused or denied due to circumstances. All three could have been a offer to help of some kind. They also may have been denied.
Instead he asked others to do things for him.

IOW you did not have a point, just being argumentative!