Let's Talk About Hell (2)

[theWaris1]

According to Romans 11 Jews will predominate among the 144,000, and presumably the lesser more numerous of the simply saved.

How so? 12,000 from each tribe. Jews are supposedly of Judah we've been told but Jews are distinctly different than those belonging to Judah. see 2nd Kings 16
Some people believes that the 144,000 is part of an old prophecy that was already fulfilled after the Babylonian captivity. Nevertheless Jews are not of the northern 10 tribes of Israel. People are so confused over Judaeans, Jews, Galileans, Hebrews and Israelites. etc.

 

[Ron Cooke]

God does not require a person to be a Christian in order to get into heaven.
God does require us to accept and live by the values God has taught us.
That means: most of the people who make the transition to the Spiritual Universe will not be white, will not be American and most certainly will not be middle class. It's just a matter of demographics. With 6.5 billion souls on our planet, there are plenty of people who yearn for the peace of an afterlife.

 

[createdtoworship]

I want to bring up a different subject. What is the difference between the Lake of Fire, the Abyss and the Outer Darkness?

some people believe outer darkness refers to being outside of the city in the millenium. I don't know about that. I kinda think it is an allegory for the lake of fire.

The Abyss is where satan is held captive before being tossed in the lake of fire. I think.

The lake of fire is hell.

 

[createdtoworship]

God does not require a person to be a Christian in order to get into heaven.
God does require us to accept and live by the values God has taught us.
That means: most of the people who make the transition to the Spiritual Universe will not be white, will not be American and most certainly will not be middle class. It's just a matter of demographics. With 6.5 billion souls on our planet, there are plenty of people who yearn for the peace of an afterlife.

depends on your definition of Christian. The bible uses the word christian, so it's okay.

* Acts 11:26, "and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came about that for an entire year they met with the church, and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch."
* Acts 26:28, "And Agrippa replied to Paul, "In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian."
* 1 Peter 4:16, "but if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed, but in that name let him glorify God."

 

[createdtoworship]

I submit that the vast majority of people who make it to heaven will be white, American, and middle class.

We all are given the chance to accept Christ? Yeah, if your born in a western country where Jesus is a household name. But if your an innuit far up north, or a monk high up in the himalayas, your pretty much out of luck. Heck Christianity didn't spread very far in its first couple hundred years or so of existance. Generations of humans lived and died without knowing Christ. But hey, they "chose" to reject God. Of course. Choosing would require that you have another option.

I could probably go on about people who have been driven away from Christianity by christians. You know the whole verse, "A healthy tree bears good fruit", some of the people i've met(and befriended) think Christianity is rotten to the core, and won't have any of it. Such as a wiccan who was bullied by self-professing Christians, or an athiest who was intimidated by the surrounding "christian" community. Ironic then, that the very instrument of salvation(witnessing christians) turned them away.

have you ever heard of the Gospel in the Stars theory? It's interesting. I don't know if I agree, but it poses some interesting questions as to "the heavens declaring the glory of God"

http://ldolphin.org/studynotes/stars.htm

 

[Timothew]

This thread should be moved back to general theology, so that it can be discussed.

 

[ghendricks63]

This thread should be moved back to general theology, so that it can be discussed.

Is there some restriction on discussing it here?

 

[Timothew]

Is there some restriction on discussing it here?

It amounts to an admission that annihilationism is unorthodox and untrue and that eternal torture is orthodox and true.

I reject that completely, and so I will not discuss it here.

Until it is moved to the proper forum, I will not discuss it, except to say that it should rightfully be moved to general theology and only the moderators fear of the truth is preventing the move to general theology.

 

[ghendricks63]

It amounts to an admission that annihilationism is unorthodox and untrue and that eternal torture is orthodox and true.

I reject that completely, and so I will not discuss it here.

Until it is moved to the proper forum, I will not discuss it, except to say that it should rightfully be moved to general theology and only the moderators fear of the truth is preventing the move to general theology.

Though I agree with your position...I see little hope of influencing anyone by remaining silent in protest.

 

[Timothew]

Though I agree with your position...I see little hope of influencing anyone by remaining silent in protest.

I've sent a request to the mods, which was shot down in fear.
Now I've sent another one.

They don't wish to discuss the truth and are only interested in annihilating anyone who disagrees with them. There is no point in discussing the truth here in unorthodox theology, where the debate is decided before it has begun.

My silence is pure disgust at the attitutes here.

 

[Timothew]

When the truth is called unorthodox lies, and lies are called orthodox truth something is very wrong.

 

[theWaris1]

I've sent a request to the mods, which was shot down in fear.
Now I've sent another one.

They don't wish to discuss the truth and are only interested in annihilating anyone who disagrees with them. There is no point in discussing the truth here in unorthodox theology, where the debate is decided before it has begun.

My silence is pure disgust at the attitutes here.

It is no different elsewhere. I've seen many Christians throw fits of rage and even violate the ten commandments during a poor defense of the orthodox teachings that is so common in churches. Most people only know what they are taught and they are not open to scriptures.

 

[Hillsage]

Is there some restriction on discussing it here?

No, actually there is a restriction on us, if we go to the orthodox forum and strongly defend our 'unorthodox' view there. I was warned by a former forum moderator, as to that fact, a while back on another 'similar topic'.

 

[theWaris1]

No, actually there is a restriction on us, if we go to the orthodox forum and strongly defend our 'unorthodox' view there. I was warned by a former forum moderator, as to that fact, a while back on another 'similar topic'.

Then this should be the appropriate place to argue unorthodox views.

 

[Timothew]

Then this should be the appropriate place to argue unorthodox views.

I argue that demons with pitchforks tormenting unbaptized babies for all of eternity in a fiery cavern lake is unorthodox.

The wages of sin being death should be viewed as "orthodox" but for some reason, it isn't. What the hell?

 

[Hillsage]

Then this should be the appropriate place to argue unorthodox views.

That's the way it was told to me. And that is the description given in the 'unorthodox theology' heading which says:
"A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism) Orthodox* and Unorthodox members welcome"

We have the liberty to 'strongly defend', not believing in eternal hell here, but in the general theology forum we don't. It's 'administration's' way of protecting the innocent lambs from us ravaging wolves...so to speak.

And if you look at it from their point of view I'd have to agree. I'm just glad they give us a place where those who are seeking the 'truth', (wherever it may be) can find us on this website. So I am truly thankful they give us that liberty. And if we can't respond to them with the very character of the God of Love whom we so espouse, then we could easily fall to a judgment of loosing that privilege.

 

[Hillsage]

I argue that demons with pitchforks tormenting unbaptized babies for all of eternity in a fiery cavern lake is unorthodox.

It's not 'unorthodox' Timothew...it's 'ungodly'. Orthodox by definition is that doctrine which is commonly held to be true by the majority of denominationalism. The same holds true for 'heresy'. That's defined as doctrine which is against the 'orthodox church', or the majority churches. Thankfully, Martin Luther was a heretic whose heresy happened to be the truth that we 'protestants' hold so dear to. Being called 'unorthodox' or a 'heretic' doesn't bother me, nor should it you. The apostle Paul, was a self admitted heretic.

[KJV] ACT 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

The wages of sin being death should be viewed as "orthodox" but for some reason, it isn't. What the hell?

"Should be"...I agree, but it isn't. So, unless we show more love to them than they are showing to 'dying unbelievers' why should they change their view? Pursue love toward them bro.

 

[theWaris1]

I'm very unorthodoxed so therefore Imma in the right place.

 

[CLM9999]

God does not require a person to be a Christian in order to get into heaven.
God does require us to accept and live by the values God has taught us.
That means: most of the people who make the transition to the Spiritual Universe will not be white, will not be American and most certainly will not be middle class. It's just a matter of demographics. With 6.5 billion souls on our planet, there are plenty of people who yearn for the peace of an afterlife.

I hope nobody actually believes the above, I mean that heaven is gonna be mostly white. Right now the country with by far the most Christians is China and it will stay that way for decades to come...

 

[RND]

I hope nobody actually believes the above, I mean that heaven is gonna be mostly white. Right now the country with by far the most Christians is China and it will stay that way for decades to come...

Um, you might want to re-read what Ron said. Just sayin'.