Let's talk 1 Corithians. 6:12-15...

[k4c]

1 Corinthians 6:12-15 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!

Who would like to be first to testify for or against the importance of only clean foods for new covenant Christiants in light of these verses?

 

[Tim Myers]

"Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?"

I have often wondered what Paul's source was for this statement....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Who would like to be first to testify for or against the importance of only clean foods for new covenant Christiants?

I can't find a better way to describe my point of view on this subject than this:

"1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
​

BFA

P.S. I borrowed these words from Romans 14.

 

[k4c]

I can't find a better way to describe my point of view on this subject than this:

"1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
​

BFA

P.S. I borrowed these words from Romans 14.

I call these verses, conscious verses, because they speak to the conscience when no direct law is given. We know that eating meat and drinking wine is not a sin but to some it might be. Some people refer to the word, unclean, in these verses to mean unclean meat. I personally believe Paul was not referring to unclean meat, but rather, common meat because of the original language there is unclean meat and common meat, which are two different words referring to two different kinds of meat. Common meat was meat that was offered to idols. People refuse to eat it because it was offered to an idol but we know an idol is nothing. This is a conscious issue not a commandment issue as seen in God commanding His people not to eat unclean meat.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I call these verses, conscious verses, because they speak to the conscience when no direct law is given. We know that eating meat and drinking wine is not a sin but to some it might be. Some people refer to the word, unclean, in these verses to mean unclean meat. I personally believe Paul was not referring to unclean meat, but rather, common meat because of the original language there is unclean meat and common meat, which are two different words referring to two different kinds of meat. Common meat was meat that was offered to idols. People refuse to eat it because it was offered to an idol but we know an idol is nothing. This is a conscious issue not a commandment issue as seen in God commanding His people not to eat unclean meat.

Differing perspectives is what makes the world go around. Although I clearly see the references to clean and unclean meat and therefore believe they relate directly to you OP, I don't find anything in this passage on the subject of meat offered to idols. However, I do understand that this is the lens through which you view this passage.

BFA

 

[k4c]

Differing perspectives is what makes the world go around. Although I clearly see the references to clean and unclean meat and therefore believe they relate directly to you OP, I don't find anything in this passage on the subject of meat offered to idols. However, I do understand that this is the lens through which you view this passage.

BFA

What determines the lens I use is the word, unclean, in these verses. Look it up in the original language and you will see it's not referring to the unclean meat of Leviticus.

 

[k4c]

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

Differing perspectives is what makes the world go around. Although I clearly see the references to clean and unclean meat and therefore believe they relate directly to you OP, I don't find anything in this passage on the subject of meat offered to idols. However, I do understand that this is the lens through which you view this passage.

BFA
​

k4c: What determines the lens I use is the word, unclean, in these verses. Look it up in the original language and you will see it's not referring to the unclean meat of Leviticus.

Well, let me help you.

In Romans 14, the word, unclean, is the word, koinon, also known as, common in the english langauge. This word describes something that has become unclean, such as when a clean animal is offered to an idol. This animal is not unclean in of itself, but rather, it has become unclean based on the conscience. In other words, if a fish, which is clean, is offered to an idol it becomes unclean (koinon) because of the person's conscience, not based on creation.

The word, akatharton, is the word used for animals that are unclean in of themsleves. In other words, they were created unclean by God at creation and are not to be eaten. Peter used both koinon and akatharton in one sentence...

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”

I think if the translator used the right english word (common) in Romans 14 we would know he was referring to personal conscience convictions and not a command of God, then we wouldn't be having this conversaion.

Romans 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is common in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be common, to him it is common.

So you see, Romans is not saying unclean (akatharton) is now okay to eat.

Remember, before Leviticus God made a distinction between clean and unclean to Noah. Every unclean animal entered the ark in pairs. If Noah ate even one of the unclean animals that breed of animal would have ceased to exsist from that point on.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What determines the lens I use is the word, unclean, in these verses. Look it up in the original language and you will see it's not referring to the unclean meat of Leviticus.

KOINON is common, but -- based on the context -- it could become that which is outside the realm of "the approved" and hence “unclean.” That's why all English translations have rendered the word as "unclean." Context is key in determining how a word should be translated.


What is most compelling here is not the word Koinon, but phrases such as these:

• One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
• The one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
• If because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
• Do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
• The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Seems pretty compelling to me.

BFA

 

[k4c]

KOINON is common, but -- based on the context -- it could become that which is outside the realm of "the approved" and hence “unclean.” That's why all English translations have rendered the word as "unclean." Context is key in determining how a word should be translated.



What is most compelling here is not the word Koinon, but phrases such as these:

• One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
• The one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
• If because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
• Do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
• The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Seems pretty compelling to me.

BFA

The issue was eating meat vs eating only vegetables, days esteemed by man, not God. These are conscience verses and not commandment verses. It goes on to say that if anyone thinks it's a sin then it's a sin for him. That is a conscience statement, not a commandment statement. The whole argument ends with eating meat and drinking wine in front of a weaker brother. These are conscience issues otherwise it might as well say, a person must not commit adultery in front of a weaker brother.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

As far as 1 Cor. 6:12-15 goes, it's talking about sexual immorality. Paul started on this topic in the previous chapter, when he was taking the church to task for failing to disfellowship a member who was banging his stepmother.

As far as Romans 14 goes, there are two clues. Verse 2 where Paul speaks of the weaker brother eating vegetables only. Some meat was clean acconding to the Law, but in Rome virtually all meat had been sacrificed to idols. Also, verse 21 says "it is good not to eat meat or drink wine". Why is wine mentioned? It was not unclean under the Law. It was, however, often dedicated to idols.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The issue was eating meat vs eating only vegetables, days esteemed by man, not God. These are conscience verses and not commandment verses. It goes on to say that if anyone thinks it's a sin then it's a sin for him. That is a conscience statement, not a commandment statement. The whole argument ends with eating meat and drinking wine in from of a weaker brother. These are conscience issues otherwise it might as well say, a person must not commit adultery in front of a weaker brother.

So what should we make of statements such as "the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Doesn't this passage provide clear guidance against judging one another based on the meat he eats or the vegetables he eats?

BFA

 

[Cribstyl]

So what should we make of statements such as "the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Doesn't this passage provide clear guidance against judging one another based on the meat he eats or the vegetables he eats?

BFA

 

[k4c]

So what should we make of statements such as "the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Doesn't this passage provide clear guidance against judging one another based on the meat he eats or the vegetables he eats?

BFA

In the context of the verses Paul is referring to things that are good.

Romans 14:16-17 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

The kingdom of God in not in whether you eat meat or drink wine.

Romans 14:21 It is good to not eat meat (eating), drink wine (drinking), nor do anything by which your brother stumbles, is offended, or is made weak.

Eating meat or drinking wine is not a sin and is not what the kingdom of God is all about but I can tell you that gluttony and drunkenness will prevent you from entering in.

Deuteronomy 21:20-21 The parents must say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.' "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

Proverbs 23:20-21 Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.

Philippians 3:19 They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

 

[Joe67]

When the Almighty God, the Sovereign Lord, gave Abraham the duty of circumcision it was a command. Abraham obeyed that day. It was a sign, a seal of the everlasting covenant, in the flesh of Abraham. It was binding upon all the offspring and house of Abraham.

Today, outward circumcision or uncircumcision avails nothing. What avails is the righteousness which is of faith, faith which works by love, the keeping of the commandments. This is the circumcision of the heart, the inward man.

Foods and days come short of this fulfillment of love, except wherein we restrain our activities for the sake of the weaker brethren; which circumcises our liberty in Christ.

Righteousness which is of faith hallows the name of our Father in heaven in our Lord Jesus Christ at our Father's right hand. This is our foundation upon which we stretch out ourselves.

This faith works by our Father's love in ministry to our weaker brethren on earth. This is grace working in and through us.

Loving our neighbor as ourselves is the fulfilling/keeping of the commandments. This is our covering with which we are fully clothed.

Joe

 

[Ivan25]

Title : The Holy Bible, International Standard Version
Edition : Second
Copyright : Copyright © 1999 by The Learn Foundation, Santa Ana, CA. All rights reserved internationally. Electronic Edition STEP Files Copyright © 1999, Parsons Technology, Inc.

Matthew 15:10-20 ( ISVNT )

Then he called to the crowd and said to them, “Listen and understand!
It is not what goes into the mouth that makes a person unclean. It is what comes out of the mouth that makes a person unclean.”
Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you realize that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?”
He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be pulled up by the roots.
Leave them alone. They are blind guides of the blind. If one blind person leads another blind person, both will fall into a ditch.”
Then Peter said to him, “Explain to us this parable.”
Jesus said, “Are you still so ignorant?
Don’t you know that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and then is expelled as waste?
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and it is those things that make a person unclean.
For it is out of the heart that evil thoughts come, as well as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, stealing, false testimony, and slander.
These are the things that make a person unclean. But eating with unwashed hands doesn’t make a person unclean.”