Let's Keep an Eye on Texas and Mississippi

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
California has a mask mandate (though will ease for areas with low numbers) and looks like this:

Screenshot 2021-04-23 2.38.30 PM.png



Texas was on a downswing, and some are still wearing masks and being careful, so I don't think removing the mask mandate is responsible for the numbers in Texas. It is more involved than that.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes, because there is more to the dip which was already occuring than masks mandates. That doesn't mean that masks are not protective or help decrease the numbers when the numbers are high.
If you are not around folks that have it, the mask then is incidental. IF you are around folks that have it, masks help by stopping the droplets on which is the virus from being inhaled or exhaled out.

Michigans numbers went up for a number of reasons. One, the rules were relaxed. A number of schools reopened. The numbers increased in that group. Two, folks were noncompliant with the mask mandate in many places, particularly if they were drinking. Three, a whole bunch of folks traveled from Michigan to Florida (it is like a religion in Michigan to do that) for winter break or spring break or seniors for the winter. In Florida, the numbers werevery high when the post Christmas travel started. My brother was there and mentioned how few wore masks. He was thinking Florida must be doing great but then realized that the day they arrived in Florida, Michigan only had 34 new cases and Florida had over 12,000 new cases. Lots of seniors and then younger folk traveled there and then came home. Michigan numbers went up.

I hope Texas stays low, but if it does, it will be due to the vaccine and to those being careful.
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Seems that across the south, numbers are down except Florida.

Then we agree; The viral spread is regional and seasonal, and the mitigation measures we've put in place don't make a bit of difference.

With or without mask mandates, with or without lockdowns, with or without event closures, the biggest predictor of where case numbers will surge next has consistently been region and season. What's amazing to me is that this was common knowledge prior to the pandemic, but it's taboo to even suggest it now.

Texas isn't just open without a mask mandate. They're holding stadium sized events with tens of thousands of people, mostly unmasked, and seeing NO negative repercussions from it. What about all the spring-breakers that were going to cause super-spreading? Have you heard anything about that lately? No? Because it never happened. Being outside in the sun and on the beach is probably the safest place for you to be. Yet public health wants you locked up at home, inside with 2 masks on your face.

Each day that passes provides yet another data point that shows all of our mitigation measures are in vain. India is just the latest example of the complete and utter failure of masking to control the spread of the virus. On December 30, the Wall Street Journal published an article talking about how India was being "consumed" by the virus until nearly everyone was wearing masks. But as we all now see, that article didn't age well. Mask compliance didn't change, but the virus spiked out of control anyway. And because we continue to shun the principles of focused protection, such as making sure the elderly that have thousands of times more risk of dying from the virus are vaccinated before we worry about vaccinating 16-year olds that have almost no risk at all, many more people will die.

I honestly believe that when people look back and analyze the response to this pandemic, this will be regarded as one of the most catastrophic public health failures of all time.

IndiaEveryoneWearingMasks.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hammster
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
IF you are around folks that have it, masks help by stopping the droplets on which is the virus from being inhaled or exhaled out.
Except we have known for quite some time that the virus is not primarily transmitted by droplets, but rather it is through airborne transmission on aerosols that are far too small to be stopped by even surgical masks. 6 feet or 60 feet... doesn't matter according to new research. What matters is how long you share the airspace with people who are infected.

mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
As of yesterday, the top 7 states in number of people hospitalized adjusted for population that all have higher than average hospitalization ALL have mask mandates. But we keep hearing "masks save lives". The gaslighting from public health needs to stop. Masks are not helping, and anyone that looks at the data objectively can clearly see that.

HighestInfections0425.jpg
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,924
5,005
69
Midwest
✟283,519.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Then we agree; The viral spread is regional and seasonal, and the mitigation measures we've put in place don't make a bit of difference.
What about India? If masks and social distancing make no difference why is it so bad there?
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
India never had a high percent of people wearing masks. That was posted earlier in the thread. Add to that the overpopulation and proverty in areas like New Delhi, it was ineviitable.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Then we agree; The viral spread is regional and seasonal, and the mitigation measures we've put in place don't make a bit of difference.

No, we do not agree.
 
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
145,053
17,407
USA
✟1,751,296.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
As of yesterday, the top 7 states in number of people hospitalized adjusted for population that all have higher than average hospitalization ALL have mask mandates. But we keep hearing "masks save lives". The gaslighting from public health needs to stop. Masks are not helping, and anyone that looks at the data objectively can clearly see that.

View attachment 298155
snap in time. It ebbs and flows. Michigan is high now after many traveled to Florida and when they started opening schools and places like bars.

Screenshot 2021-04-26 11.15.29 AM.png



Screenshot 2021-04-26 11.25.08 AM.png


As to large events in Texas, there are some. Others were canceled:
When Texas ended its mask mandate, the event cancellations started — and the losses are adding up

At least four organizations canceled conferences or conventions in Austin, citing health concerns after Texas ended its statewide mask mandate earlier this month. The cancellations cost the Hilton Austin hotel $350,000 in revenue, according to Austin Convention Enterprises, a city-created corporation that owns and manages the hotel.​


And a number of Texas businesses still require masks:
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/coronavirus/article249656878.html

And there are citiies in Texas requiring masks:
Texas’ largest cities will keep requiring masks in municipal buildings even after statewide mandate ends.

Mayors in some of Texas’ biggest cities announced that they will still mandate the use of masks in municipal buildings, even after the statewide mask order ends next week.

Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and El Paso’s leaders announced Wednesday and Thursday that masks will be required to enter city-owned indoor spaces like libraries, police and fire department headquarters, convention centers and transportation hubs.

“I am going to issue an order mandating masks at all city-owned buildings. We have to do what we are legally allowed to do to get people to wear masks,” Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson said on Twitter Thursday morning. “We also still need to practice social distancing. And we still need to avoid taking unnecessary risks. The pandemic is not over.”​

Unfortunately, testing is down in Texas.
 
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,924
5,005
69
Midwest
✟283,519.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
India never had a high percent of people wearing masks. That was posted earlier in the thread. Add to that the overpopulation and poverty in areas like New Delhi, it was inevitable.
It has been argued here that Masks are irrelevant. What is it about overpopulation and poverty that would make it inevitable if social distancing is also not relevant, as has been argued here?
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
India never had a high percent of people wearing masks.
That's just not true. On December 30, the Wall Street Journal reported that (emphasis added) "Covid-19 was Consuming India, Until Nearly Everyone Started Wearing Masks."

Covid-19 Was Consuming India, Until Nearly Everyone Started Wearing Masks

From the article;
"One of the main reasons, Indian health officials say, is that the country has managed to encourage and enforce almost universal acceptance of masks without much debate."

So the statement that India never had a high percent of people wearing masks is patently false. That was in December. And now here we are, with India leading the world in cases despite all of the super effective mask wearing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The article does not discourage masks at all.
I never said it did. But if you'll recall, you said that masks block "droplets". And if you'll also recall, we were originally told that masks were necessary when you could not social distance. But now new research finds that social distancing doesn't make you safe. And we know that masks don't block aerosols. And we know that COVID is airborne. And we know that masks don't protect you from airborne aerosols.

We know lots of things now, yet the recommendations have failed to evolve with new information. We continue to do "what we know works" when there are literal mountains of evidence that show it does not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, we do not agree.
Sure we do. We just agreed again right here.

snap in time. It ebbs and flows.

I agree. Regional and seasonal ebbs and flows are what determines where the next outbreak will occur, not compliance with completely ineffective mitigation measures.

Michigan is high now after many traveled to Florida and when they started opening schools and places like bars.
Supposition completely unsupported by facts and 100% anecdotal. Do you think Michigan is the only state where people traveled to Florida and came back? Of course not. Yet the same thing is not happening in those other states where people traveled to Florida and came back.

And you really ought to read up on open schools. Scientists and public health experts have known since last summer that open schools do not drive case numbers, which is why it is such an atrocity that so many schools are still closed and we are still damaging our children. Public health failing us again.

As to large events in Texas, there are some. Others were canceled:
When Texas ended its mask mandate, the event cancellations started — and the losses are adding up

At least four organizations canceled conferences or conventions in Austin, citing health concerns after Texas ended its statewide mask mandate earlier this month. The cancellations cost the Hilton Austin hotel $350,000 in revenue, according to Austin Convention Enterprises, a city-created corporation that owns and manages the hotel.​
First of all, that article is a month old.

Secondly, even if some places are still canceling events, that's not really the point. The point is there are sold-out, maskless baseball games happening in Texas, and no case spike to speak of. The "neanderthal thinking" comment from our President has been proven false. There is no overrun of hospitals in Texas. There is no surge in cases. None. And all of the people that predicted doom and gloom were demonstrably wrong, no matter how much they try to gaslight us otherwise.
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I have an analogy that describes how I see our current public health measures and government response to COVID;

Imagine a house is on fire. The fire department shows up, but at the wrong house. They quickly begin the process of unrolling the hose, hooking it up to the closest fire hydrant and spraying the house. But it's the wrong house. The neighbors see all the commotion and they come over and start a bucket brigade. Countless people begin scurrying about, filling and passing buckets down the line and throwing the water... on the wrong house. They're all busy and "doing something", but none of what they're doing is actually helping to put the fire out. So they start yelling at the bystanders, blaming them that the fire isn't out because they too are not throwing water on the wrong house. All the while the house burns to the ground, but they feel good about themselves because at least they were "doing something".

This is what all of our current mitigation efforts look like. As was pointed out above, a cherry-picked snapshot in time deceives people into thinking what they're doing is working (or not). But that never ages well. It becomes clear as time passes that they were putting all their effort into things that absolutely did not help. The fire rages on, and they blame other people for not joining them in their futile, ineffective measures. It never seems to occur to them as they encounter failure after failure after failure that perhaps what they're doing just isn't effective. No, the logical explanation, to them at least, is that it has to be all those other people who haven't bought into the mystical capabilities of the mask talisman. They are the reason we have such a problem.

This would be fine if it were just everyday people, but this has also been the approach of our public health "experts", who really ought to know better. Instead of doubling and tripling down on efforts that continually fail, you would think that the health "experts" would realize that we cannot stop the spread of this virus, and therefore it is VITALLY important to FOCUS our protection on the most vulnerable to reduce the number of deaths. You would think they would realize that vaccinating the elderly is of utmost importance while not worrying so much about whether we can safely vaccinate our toddlers, which have almost zero risk of any kind of complications from COVID. You would expect people who allegedly care about others so much would RUSH to the aid of India, sending them as much vaccine as possible, or to states that were out of control. But no, the director of the CDC says, eh, clearly it didn't work the first time, but let's try locking down again and again, because we "know what works".

The illusion of knowledge is the enemy of progress, and as long as public health and government continues to believe and push this illusion that masks and social distancing are effective, the pandemic will continue to rip through and many more people will die needlessly as they fail to focus the protection where it is needed most.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hammster
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What about India? If masks and social distancing make no difference why is it so bad there?
Or what about Japan? Japan clearly has had high masking and compliance since even BEFORE the pandemic, but now health experts say Japan should reconsider the Tokyo Olympics because they failed to control the virus spread, despite 97% compliance with mask wearing;

JapanOlympics.jpg


There are endless examples of masking failing to control the spread of the virus, yet we still cling to it as if it is the magic bullet that makes everything "safe".
 
Upvote 0

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

probinson

Legend
Aug 16, 2005
22,326
2,955
46
PA
Visit site
✟135,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Just how bad is the messaging of public health and the media, and just how misinformed are people concerning the severity of the virus? Well...

The U.S. public is also deeply misinformed about the severity of the virus for the average infected person. In December, we asked, “What percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?”

The correct answer is not precisely known, but it is highly likely to be between 1% and 5% according to the best available estimates, and it is unlikely to be much higher or lower. We discuss the data and logic behind this conclusion in the appendix.

Less than one in five U.S. adults (18%) give a correct answer of between 1 and 5%. Many adults (35%) say that at least half of infected people need hospitalization. If that were true, the millions of resulting patients would have overwhelmed hospitals throughout the pandemic.

Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to overestimate this harm. Forty-one percent of Democrats and 28% of Republicans answered that half or more of those infected by COVID-19 need to be hospitalized. Republicans were also far more likely to get the correct answer, with 26% correctly identifying the risk compared to just 10% of Democrats.

Source:
How misinformation is distorting COVID policies and behaviors
 
Upvote 0