Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[Another Lazarus]

So Let me Jump to the Seals
- Break out of a War
- Economic Collapse
- Famine, Plague (Disease breakout), and attack from animals
- A Cosmic Catastrophe that affects earth too

You missed the 1st seal of white horse/antichrist comes to make peace in the world, especially between Arab Israel
after wars was made to create a New World Order.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[iamlamad]

Much of Revelation is comprised of segments of the 7 years. The segments cover either the full 7 years or the second half of the seven years. This corresponds to Daniel 9:27 , which also covers the entire 7 years, and the second half of the seven years

Here is the straight through breakdown of Revelation 6 to 20.

Revealing of the seven years the seals, seals 1-6 chapter 6
MYTH. ERROR. The seals, all but the 6th and 7th are HISTORY.
Revealing of the trumpet judgments, second half chapter 7, chapter 8, chapter 9
Chapter 7 is an intermission and has nothing to do with the trumpets; except what comes in the intermission must come first.
Revealing of the seven years according to the little book chapter 10, chapter 11
There is no scripture tying the little book with the 7 years.
Revealing of the seven years relevant to Israel chapter 12
From chapter 12 on it is only the LAST HALF of the week
Revealing of the second half of the seven years after the two witnesses are gone chapter 13, chapter 14
More Error, placing the two witnesses' coming in the first half of the week, and ending them near the midpoint. They show up and BEGIN to testify just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint of the week.
Revealing of the bowls of wrath during the second half chapter 15, chapter 16
Finally you got one right.
Revealing of the woman and the beast, and the mystery of the heads and horns chapter 17
Another right.
Revealing of the judgement on Babylon the great chapter 18
Good.
Revealing of the Lord Jesus Christ's return to earth. chapter 19, chapter 20

Very good! But you only got 4 out of nine. That would be a failing grade in school.

Revelation chapter 6 is the Revealing of the the seven years the seals, seals 1-6. The seven years starts with the rider on the white horse, a false messiah, riding a white horse like Jesus the true messiah. During the seven years the intensity of the troubles increases. War, the red horse. Then food shortages, and famine, the black horse. Then death, the pale horse, to a fourth of the world, followed by Hell. So the great tribulation is near it's end.

More myth. The first five seals were broken around 32 AD and have ZERO to do with the 70th week. So in your mind the Antichrist or false messiah came in 32 AD! Your theories are simply wrong. Worse yet, you don't KNOW they are wrong. In chapter 6 the 70th week has not yet even started! Your timing is like 2007 years off! (2000 on the first seal and 7 years the start of the week.

In Matthew 24:29, Jesus indicated that at the end of the great tribulation,

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

matching Revelation 6, the sixth seal...

WRONG! MYTH. One can SEE a blood red moon. One cannot see the moon in total darkness. There has to be sunlight reflected off the moon for us to see it. The sign after the days of GT will be total darkness - not even the stars will give their light.

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So in both Mattew 24:29 and Revelation 6:13-14, the stars fall to earth, actually appear to fall to the horizon to
the inhabitants of the earth. It is not a natural disaster, but supernatural act... that will cause men's hearts to fail them.

Of course we know this is not speaking of real stars. Your theory is FALSE. No matter how many times you write it it is false. Worse yet, you don't even know it is false.

In matthew 24: 30 after the powers of the heavens shaken and the stars fall from heaven - the world see the sign of the Son of man in heaven....

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Well, to your credit, both verses are about the Son of Man. But there will be signs in the heavens TWICE. But they will be different. In verse 30 above, JESUS COMES WITH THE CLOUDS. There is no coming with the signs of the 6th seal. His coming then was BEFORE the signs to get His church. This coming, FOR His church will have no signs.

What is the sign of the Son of man in heaven ? It is Jesus Himself before the throne of God. Which the entire world sees. And is in Revelation 6:16

Does it really say in so many words that they SEE HIM? Or do they just know the great earthquake came from Him seated on the throne in heaven? Even if they do actually SEE Him, He is seated, not coming. So this verse does NOT match the Matthew 24 verse.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Notice there ARE mountains here. But at the 7th vial the mountains disappear. So when Jesus comes as in Rev. 19, NO MOUNTAINS - PROOF they are speaking of different signs at different times for different events.

From Daniel 12:11-12, we can know the exact day on the 2520 day timeline that the sixth seal events take place.

Only in your mind, not in reality. That theory is false also: complete myth.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed ishe that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The abomination of desolation will be setup on day 1185 of the 2520 day 7 year timeline. 1335 days before the actual day Jesus descends down to earhth.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing forward 1290 days fro the abomination of desolation setup day 1185, takes us to day 2475 - 45 days before day 2520 the actual day that Jesus descends from heaven in Revelation 19.

Why the 45 day interval? Because the kings of the earth have to assemble their armies at Armageddon in preparation to fight Jesus, to stop his return to earth to carry out judgment on them.

Complete myth.

That concludes the sixth seal and the
Revealing of the seven years the seals, seals 1-6 chapter 6

Then Revelation goes to chapter 7, beginning with an "I saw" as the 144,000 are being sealed prior to the trumpet judgments to begin....

Revealing of the trumpet judgments, second half chapter 7, chapter 8, chapter 9

Complete myth. ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be proven wrong. Just wait. Yours WILL BE proven wrong.

 

[iamlamad]

You missed the 1st seal of white horse/antichrist comes to make peace in the world, especially between Arab Israel
after wars was made to create a New World Order.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

Sorry, first seal was broken around 32 AD when Jesus ascended. See Rev. 5. The first seal is the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL.

 

[iamlamad]

Since the dawn of man, the conspiracy has existed. Down thru the ages it has had a solitary, albeit sinister goal. It is so ancient, but worthy of noting for all time, that the Bible itself warns us of it by fifteen verses into the third chapter of Genesis, where God foretells of the epic war between the Morning Star Christ and the Morning Star Satan via the seed of Satan against the seed of Adam. God further indicates that this same war between what will become the elite controllers of this world, ultimately against the rest of mankind, reflects that of Heaven's First War, when Lucifer announced his 5 "I Wills" and so desired to place himself as God, to rule over all. As such, while God no longer allowed Satan to reside next to His Throne, God allowed Satan's mutiny, knowing that it would end one day in the Antichrist and an Apocalypse, on earth, resulting in either a soul's elevation back to God, or eternal damnation with Satan, if one so chooses it. In this way, God only receives souls unto Him that would never later rise up in mutiny, as Lucifer had done, they knowing full well the price of such sin.

Wow.

 

[keras]

Here is the straight through breakdown of Revelation 6 to 20.

Here is Dougg's opinion of Revelation.
Nowhere in Revelation does it say the events described are 'revealed' rather than they actually take place in the sequence as Written. Of course, after Revelation 6:11, all the events are still future for us, as anyone with a knowledge of history can know.
We await the great Day of the Lord's wrath, a Day that will change everything: Zephaniah 1:14-18, when He makes a sudden and terrible end to all who dwell in the [holy] Land. Jeremiah 10:18

 

[Postvieww]

Like a black blood pudding, Dougg?
Come on, admit your error and your shuffling of scripture. The Sixth Seal must happen before the GT and the return.
And there is no need to write out screeds of scripture, they just serve to compound your mistakes.
Isaiah 2:12-21 The Lord of Hosts has a Day of doom in store.....they will hide among the rocks on His Day of terror.
The glorious Return of Jesus is NOT a Day of terror.

The glorious Return of Jesus is NOT a Day of terror. It is if one is not in Christ

 

[Postvieww]

Very good! But you only got 4 out of nine. That would be a failing grade in school.


More myth. The first five seals were broken around 32 AD and have ZERO to do with the 70th week. So in your mind the Antichrist or false messiah came in 32 AD! Your theories are simply wrong. Worse yet, you don't KNOW they are wrong. In chapter 6 the 70th week has not yet even started! Your timing is like 2007 years off! (2000 on the first seal and 7 years the start of the week.

WRONG! MYTH. One can SEE a blood red moon. One cannot see the moon in total darkness. There has to be sunlight reflected off the moon for us to see it. The sign after the days of GT will be total darkness - not even the stars will give their light.


Of course we know this is not speaking of real stars. Your theory is FALSE. No matter how many times you write it it is false. Worse yet, you don't even know it is false.


Well, to your credit, both verses are about the Son of Man. But there will be signs in the heavens TWICE. But they will be different. In verse 30 above, JESUS COMES WITH THE CLOUDS. There is no coming with the signs of the 6th seal. His coming then was BEFORE the signs to get His church. This coming, FOR His church will have no signs.

Does it really say in so many words that they SEE HIM? Or do they just know the great earthquake came from Him seated on the throne in heaven? Even if they do actually SEE Him, He is seated, not coming. So this verse does NOT match the Matthew 24 verse.

Notice there ARE mountains here. But at the 7th vial the mountains disappear. So when Jesus comes as in Rev. 19, NO MOUNTAINS - PROOF they are speaking of different signs at different times for different events.
Only in your mind, not in reality. That theory is false also: complete myth.
Complete myth.
Complete myth. ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be proven wrong. Just wait. Yours WILL BE proven wrong.

I challenge you to show us two coming of the Lord passages anywhere in scripture that are identical in wording. This method of interpreting scriptures based solely on minor differences in wording and declaring that is proof of a different event is false.

 

[keras]

The glorious Return of Jesus is NOT a Day of terror. It is if one is not in Christ

At His Return, Jesus will dispose of the armies of the Anti-Christ [Satan] and chain him up. This is in no way similar to the terrible worldwide Day of the Lord's wrath against the nations. Habakkuk 3:12, 2 Peter 3:7

I challenge you to show us two coming of the Lord passages anywhere in scripture that are identical in wording. This method of interpreting scriptures based solely on minor differences in wording and declaring that is proof of a different event is false.

There are 2 Days of the Lord, the first is the one where He judges and punishes the nations. Psalms 110:5-6 and over 100 other prophesies that detail the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, that will affect all the earth. He won't be seen on that Day. Psalms 11:4-6
Then, at least 7+ years later. Jesus will Return in glory, visible to all the world, on the great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b

 

[Riberra]

At His Return, Jesus will dispose of the armies of the Anti-Christ [Satan] and chain him up.

At The 6th seal [Revelation 6:12]/the great worldwide earthquake will surely cause many millions of people worldwide to die.


At His Coming All the armies of the World [Revelation 16:14-16]will be there assembled at Armageddon PLUS all the civilians with the mark of the Beast those taken by the angels to where the birds will eat their flesh Luke 17:34-37 ie the Armageddon battle field Revelation 19:17-21) ....this represent billion of people....even if we consider that 1/3 of humanity will be killed by the strange horses like supernatural creature of Revelation 9:12-21.
Note also that the Earthquake such as no one before since the creation of the world of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17-21)and the falling of the 100 hundred pound HAIL STONE will surely cause even more death than the earthquake at the 6th seal.

 

[keras]

At The 6th seal [Revelation 6:12]/the great worldwide earthquake will surely cause many millions of people worldwide to die.

One of the major differences between the Sixth Seal and the Return of Jesus, is the first is a worldwide disaster, albeit focused on the Middle East. The Return will be seen by the world, but the destruction of the armies attacking Jerusalem, is local to the holy Land.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry, first seal was broken around 32 AD when Jesus ascended. See Rev. 5. The first seal is the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL.

The Gospel is never rerpesented with a bow.

The rider is the Antichrist, the false messiah.

Revealing of the seven years the seals, seals 1-6 chapter 6

There have been wars and famines before 32 AD and that the red horse and black would be more of the same for 2000 years until Jesus returns is not what is being revealed.

Revelation 6-20 reflects the last week of Daniel 9. The prince who shall come, who will be crowned the King of Israel - the rider on the white who is given a crown, making him the Antichrist - and a crown was given unto him. The church, the bride of Christ, herself is not a king.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

His being crowned the King of israel, is at the start of the seven years. The other riders are due to the judgments taking place during the great tribulation - as resources for food and energy causes nations to go to war with one another, and eventually leading to gobal famine and disease, and predation by the animals on humans as their food chain is destroyed.. And the martyrs who will refuse the mark, and refuse worship of the beast and his image.

 

[Douggg]

Here is Dougg's opinion of Revelation.
Nowhere in Revelation does it say the events described are 'revealed' rather than they actually take place in the sequence as Written. Of course, after Revelation 6:11, all the events are still future for us, as anyone with a knowledge of history can know.
We await the great Day of the Lord's wrath, a Day that will change everything: Zephaniah 1:14-18, when He makes a sudden and terrible end to all who dwell in the [holy] Land. Jeremiah 10:18

The word "revealing" as how I used it my explanation of the book of Revelation chapters 6-20, is meaning making something known that was previously unknown.

 

[iamlamad]

Here is Dougg's opinion of Revelation.
Nowhere in Revelation does it say the events described are 'revealed' rather than they actually take place in the sequence as Written. Of course, after Revelation 6:11, all the events are still future for us, as anyone with a knowledge of history can know.
We await the great Day of the Lord's wrath, a Day that will change everything: Zephaniah 1:14-18, when He makes a sudden and terrible end to all who dwell in the [holy] Land. Jeremiah 10:18

While you are awaiting the Day of Wrath, I am awaiting the Coming and our gathering. This event will be the trigger for the Day of Wrath. Anyway, I want to see my real home.

 

[iamlamad]

The Gospel is never rerpesented with a bow.

The rider is the Antichrist, the false messiah.

Revealing of the seven years the seals, seals 1-6 chapter 6

There have been wars and famines before 32 AD and that the red horse and black would be more of the same for 2000 years until Jesus returns is not what is being revealed.

Revelation 6-20 reflects the last week of Daniel 9. The prince who shall come, who will be crowned the King of Israel - the rider on the white who is given a crown, making him the Antichrist - and a crown was given unto him. The church, the bride of Christ, herself is not a king.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

His being crowned the King of israel, is at the start of the seven years. The other riders are due to the judgments taking place during the great tribulation - as resources for food and energy causes nations to go to war with one another, and eventually leading to gobal famine and disease, and predation by the animals on humans as their food chain is destroyed.. And the martyrs who will refuse the mark, and refuse worship of the beast and his image.

I could say the same thing: the Antichrist is never represented with a bow. This bow is a TOXIN bow, meaning a bow used to shoot arrows meaning a weapon type bow. But the church needs to physical weapons, for our weapons are mighty for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds. I think the bow represents spiritual weapons. In this case I disagree with Strong's theory that "bow" is a simple ribbon of some kind.

Next, if you imagine "antichrist" you are pulling the first seal out of its context. If you are ever going to understand the first seals, you must first understand the vision of the throne room, and accurately answer these questions:
1. Why was Jesus not in the throne room in chapter 4?
2. Why was Jesus not found in the first search that ended in failure?
3. Why was the Holy Spirit in the throne room in chapter 4, when Jesus said as soon as He ascended He would send Him down?
4. What is being meant by the "lamb having been slain" suddenly appearing in the throne room?
5. What changed so that Jesus WAS found in the search AFTER the search that ended in failure when John wept much?

When you answer these questions correctly, you will know the CONTEXT of the first seal, and will know what it is meant to represent.

By the way, There are crowns waiting for the church. Paul says "but we an incorruptible [crown]." (1 Cor. 9:25)
Paul said we get a crown of righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

1 Peter 5:4
And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

Revelation 3:11
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown

There have been wars and famines OUTSIDE of the 1/4 of the earth these horsemen were limited to also. That means nothing. These riders represent the devil's attempts to stop the gospel. He was sure he could prevent the gospel from excaping his 1/4 of the earth. As we know now, he failed miserably.

I will allow you this much: since these horsemen represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel, it is very likely that wars, famines, pestilences and death that has plagued that 1/4 of the earth (represented by these three horsemen) will continue on through the 70th week until Jesus comes in power.

Remember, until you understand the CONTEXT, you will never be right on the first seals, and will continue to teach false doctrine. Does this bother you?

 

[iamlamad]

I challenge you to show us two coming of the Lord passages anywhere in scripture that are identical in wording. This method of interpreting scriptures based solely on minor differences in wording and declaring that is proof of a different event is false.

Trying to force two events into one is false. One can SEE a blood red moon. I have seen it. But when both the sun and moon are darkened, along with stars darkened, God is telling us it will be total darkness. Can one see the sun when it is on the opposite side of the planet? No! We don't see the sun at night. Just imagine a night so dark not one star can be seen, and no moonlight. It is going to be darker than midnight in a coal mine.

 

[Douggg]

lamad quoted me and wrote;


Douggg said: ↑
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

lamad wrote: Notice there ARE mountains here. But at the 7th vial the mountains disappear. So when Jesus comes as in Rev. 19, NO MOUNTAINS - PROOF they are speaking of different signs at different times for different events.

The events of the sixth seal take place corresponding to the sixth vial events in Revelation 16. The seventh vial come after the sixth vial. So there is no conflict with the mountains being leveled in the seventh vial.

 

[Postvieww]

Trying to force two events into one is false. One can SEE a blood red moon. I have seen it. But when both the sun and moon are darkened, along with stars darkened, God is telling us it will be total darkness. Can one see the sun when it is on the opposite side of the planet? No! We don't see the sun at night. Just imagine a night so dark not one star can be seen, and no moonlight. It is going to be darker than midnight in a coal mine.

Matthew 24:9 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. Nothing in the text says the moon will be as you described it. An eclipsed moon does not give its light as normal and perfectly fits the text. It is you who are "forcing " meaning into the words that is not there. I knew you wouldn't take the challenge, because you can't . It is you who redefines words to suit your narrative and make two events out of one.

 

[iamlamad]

The events of the sixth seal take place corresponding to the sixth vial events in Revelation 16. The seventh vial come after the sixth vial. So there is no conflict with the mountains being leveled in the seven vial.

Picture a rolled up scroll sealed with a seal. Then another scroll rolled around it, and sealed with a seal. then another scroll rolled around it and sealed. Picture 7 scrolls rolled up, on inside another. And inside the 7th seal, the bottom one, is the rest of the book rolled up. In our book that would be from chapter 8 to the end of the book.

Written on the outside is information concerning WHO would be worthy to break the seals. It seems it had to be someone who defeated death. So the first seal is broken, and the first scroll is unrolled and read. At that point in time, NO OTHER scroll can be read, or no other seal can be read, until another seal is broken.

Now imagine the first five seals have been broken and opened, and under the 5th seal we find a long period of waiting.
Finally Jesus comes, the church is taken out of the world, and the 6th seal is broken. Picture it? There is STILL a rolled scroll with NOTHING VISIBLE except the last seal. No one can read what is inside (Except John who saw it in a vision).

In other words, everything still sealed INSIDE the scroll, is hidden and cannot come to pass until TIME PASSES and the last seal is broken so the contents of the book can be seen, read and come to pass.

In other words, as with your other theories, this theory is simply IMPOSSIBLE and is of course a FALSE theory. In your theory the seals are all broken, everything is torn up and then pieced back together in the order you imagine they should go. Of course, Postvieww's theory on how they should go would differ from yours, and everyone else's who think nothing of rearranging God's book.

I have an idea: DUMP all your theories into file 13 and start over, since few or none of them can be proven by a sound exegesis of scripture. Begin with this axiom:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

With this start, perhaps you can come up with GOD's intent when He caused John to write.

Another hint on correct exegesis of end times scripture: since God is a self revealing God, and over time reveals more and more, start with the latest revelation - which would of course be Revelation. It is the most complete write up of end time events. Then fill in missing pieces with older scriptures and scriptures not so complete.

 

[iamlamad]

The events of the sixth seal take place corresponding to the sixth vial events in Revelation 16. The seventh vial come after the sixth vial. So there is no conflict with the mountains being leveled in the seventh vial.

Only in your theory. At least you go the timing write on the 6th and 7th vials. All I can say is, since you rearrange, your theories will be proven wrong.

 

[Douggg]

I could say the same thing: the Antichrist is never represented with a bow.

I never wrote that the Antichrist is represented by a bow. The Antichrist has a bow.

You were saying the rider is the church and the Gospel is the bow. The gospel is never represented by a bow (metaphorically of course).