Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[keras]

It does not say anything about 75 days beyond the end of the 7 years. Seventy weeks. Not Seventy weeks and 75 days.

They way Daniel 12:11-12 is written, the plain understanding is that the 1290 days [1260+30] and the 1335 days [1260+75] are both added onto the point when the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ.
After the 1260 days; Jesus will Return in glory, destroy the attacking armies, bind up Satan and then join His righteous Christian people in the celebration of the Marriage Supper for 30 days.
The plus 75 days will be the rededication of the Temple.

This all fits very well with the Fall Feasts: Trumpets; the Return, then Hanukkah 75 days after the Return. Note that Hanukkah celebrates the rededication of the Temple on Kislev 25, 124 BC 2 Maccabees 1:18

 

[keras]

If you want the tribulation experience RB, go for it

The Lord will give it to you .... no doubt .... unless you die before it comes

And if so your fate may be something that you do not want

I have to tell you that His "coming" is involves much more than you think

Instead of dire predictions against those who have different beliefs than you, plus your very unchristian attitude, the proper way to convince others is to post proofs of what you think will happen.
The real problem that you have with the 'rapture to heaven' idea, that there is no scripture verse that says such a thing will happen. Dr John Walvrood of the Dallas Seminary said just that and the only way to contrive a rapture removal out of the Bible, is to use conjecture and surmise and outright misinterpretation of scripture.

So because you can't prove your beliefs by scripture, you and others here, too, resort to threats of tribulations for your opponent's, as you do above, and character assassinations.
I put it to you, Straightshot, you are acting in a very poor manner, not becoming of a brother Christian.
I have already suggested that you pause from posting for a while, you just dismissed that idea, but you really do need to spend some time carefully and prayerfully studying the Bible, find out for yourself what God really plans for His people.

 

[Douggg]

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Daniel is wondering how long to the end? End of what? What is the beginning? Daniel tells us in verse one:

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

This time of trouble, according to other scriptures, will begin shortly after the exact midpoint of the week. OF COURSE Michael shall stand up, for Rev. 12 tells us that he will go to war with Satan. So the beginning is the midpoint abomination, NOT anything like 1185 but in truth, the point that divides the week into two equal halves: 1260 -|exact midpoint|- 1260.

in Revelation 12:6, first is the 1260 day first half. Then in the text is the war in heaven. We aren't told how much earth time passes as that war takes place, but it eats into the second half. So Satan is cast down with less than the full second half left. His time left is a time, times, half a time which is less than 1260 days, and less than 42 months. The time, times, half times does not represent exactly 3 1/2 years.

The bible knows how to say 3 1/2 because the two witnesses ascend after laying in the streets for 3 1/2 days. But Satan, when he is cast down, it does not say 3 1/2 years, but a time, times, half times which is a lesser timeframe...not at the exact midpoint.

Plus the abomination of desolation being setup is not synonymous with Satan being cast down anyway. The abomination of desolation is the image made of the slain and comeback to life beast. The 1290 days and the 1335 are based upon the abomination of desolation setup - not Satan being cast down, which is not at the exact midpoint anyway.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days [to the end Daniel is asking about].

So again the start in the exact midpoint established in verse one. But the end has been extended past the 1260 day with 30 days later. If we look in Revelation, perhaps there is 30 days between the 7th vial that ends the week and the time Jesus gets on the white horse to descend. The daily sacrifice will be stopped the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god: the 1260th day into the 70th week.

No the starting place is not the exact midpoint. You have misunderstood that Satan being cast down and having the time, times, and half times left is not exactly 3 1/2 years, but a lesser amount.

The only fixed point on the seven year timeline to understand what is meant is the last day that Jesus returns - blessed is the person who makes it to that day. Day 2520 on the timeline, the last day of the 70th week.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So counting back 1335 days from the last day of the 70th weeks is day 1185 on the 7 year timeline. Then 1290 days forward from day 1185 is day 2475, 45 days before Jesus returns, on day 2520.

On day 2475, the events of the heavens parting and the world seeing Jesus before the thone of God, in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, puts the fear of God into the wicked men of the world. There are 45 days left till Jesus descend to earth.

It will take the convincing of the beast, the false prophet, and Satan, for the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon during the 45 days, and take half of the city of Jerusalem captive as hostages (Zechariah 14) before Jesus descends to the Mt. of Olives to rescue them and execute judgment on the armies gathered against him (Revelation 19:19).

What you have done in re-stating the specific time values written in the bible as 3 1/2 years alters the meaning - which in turn, you much assert a faulty claim that the 1290 days and the 1335 days extend beyond the 70th week violating the timeframe determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people.

You in your exact midpoint misunderstanding are not following the context - but are changing the context from a time, times, half times to 3 1/2 years. The exact midpoint is not a factor for anything except being the day that the two witnesses are killed.

 

[Douggg]

They way Daniel 12:11-12 is written, the plain understanding is that the 1290 days [1260+30] and the 1335 days [1260+75] are both added onto the point when the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ.

We don't know the exact day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, and claims to be God (which is not the abomination of desolation anyway, but the transgression of desolation spoken of in Daniel 8). So even though we don't know the exact day, the TOD has to take place before AOD, because the person will be killed for the TOD act, and brought back to life - THEN the AOD is made of him.

I explained in my post 243 to lamad, how the 1335 days and 1290 days fit into the 70th week.

The AOD is setup on day 1185, then 1290 days from then, the heavens part and the world sees Jesus before the throne of
God, on day 2475. During the 45 days that follow, the kings of the earth prepare their armies and take half of Jerusalem as hostage, Zechariah 14, which Jesus rescues them by his foot touching down on the Mt. of Olives, on day 2520, the last day of the 70th week.

There are 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people Israel, not 70 weeks plus. All of the timeframes fit, with no overruns.

 

[keras]

I explained in my post 243 to lamad, how the 1335 days and 1290 days fit into the 70th week.

And I explained how you could be wrong.
It's not a salvation issue, we will see the truth in due course.

 

[iamlamad]

"It does not say anything about 75 days beyond the end of the 7 years. Seventy weeks. Not Seventy weeks and 75 days."


What is "it" Doug? the scriptures "say" nothng .... you have to read them

The Lord is the One who has revealed this truth


Daniel
12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


See if you can figure this out .... 1260 days + 1260 days + 30 days + 45 days

There other related scriptures necessary for the complete rendering

If not I can explain it to you

Great Post.

 

[iamlamad]

We don't know the exact day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, and claims to be God (which is not the abomination of desolation anyway, but the transgression of desolation spoken of in Daniel 8). So even though we don't know the exact day, the TOD has to take place before AOD, because the person will be killed for the TOD act, and brought back to life - THEN the AOD is made of him.

I explained in my post 243 to lamad, how the 1335 days and 1290 days fit into the 70th week.

The AOD is setup on day 1185, then 1290 days from then, the heavens part and the world sees Jesus before the throne of
God, on day 2475. During the 45 days that follow, the kings of the earth prepare their armies and take half of Jerusalem as hostage, Zechariah 14, which Jesus rescues them by his foot touching down on the Mt. of Olives, on day 2520, the last day of the 70th week.

There are 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people Israel, not 70 weeks plus. All of the timeframes fit, with no overruns.

It is a theory: it just does not fit any scripture anywhere. No commentary agrees.

 

[iamlamad]

in Revelation 12:6, first is the 1260 day first half.

You have started out wrong. How then can anything else be truth? Did you just forget what Jesus said? They were to flee when they see the abomination. Whether or not you believe it, it will be the event that will divide the week. And it will be that event that causes those in Judea to FLEE. 12:6 shows us this fleeing. They BEGIN their flight maybe 2 seconds after they see the abomination that Jesus spoke of. The 1260 days of fleeing tell us this happens exactly at the midpoint of the week. So their fleeing will be for the LAST 1260 days.

Then in the text is the war in heaven. We aren't told how much earth time passes as that war takes place, but it eats into the second half. So Satan is cast down with less than the full second half left. His time left is a time, times, half a time which is less than 1260 days, and less than 42 months. The time, times, half times does not represent exactly 3 1/2 years.

This is confusion gone to seed: ALL the times given: 42 months, 1260 days, 1260 days, time, times and half of time, and 42 months are all speaking of the SAME TIME PERIOD: the last half of the 70th week. However, that said, the 42 months of trampling count will be first, then the 1260 days count of testifying second, etc. There will be around 3.5 days difference of when the 42 months of trampling, and the 1260 days of testifying begin, versus when the 1260 days of fleeing begin. In other words, the 1260 days of testifying will begin 3.5 days before the 1260 days of fleeing. The 1260 days of testifying will STOP 3.5 days before the fleeing will stop.

Right, we are not told how long the war will take. One day? One week? One month? It cannot take too long, for the 42 months of authority starts after the war. Your theory of the time, times and half of time is BOGUS. Or should I say MYTH? All five of these times run concurrenly: it is all the very same LAST HALF of the week. The time, times and half of time relate directly with the 1260 days of fleeing; only John added that they will be protected and feed. Since it is all the same last half of the week, time means one year, times means 2 years, and half of time means 1/2 of a year, so added they come out to 3 1/2 (360 day) years. 3.5*360=1260

The bible knows how to say 3 1/2 because the two witnesses ascend after laying in the streets for 3 1/2 days. But Satan, when he is cast down, it does not say 3 1/2 years, but a time, times, half times which is a lesser timeframe...not at the exact midpoint.

The three and a half years (12:14) are in reference to those that flee, NOT TO the Dragon. All John says about the dragon in reference to time is that "he hath but a short time." His time will relate pretty much directly with the 42 months of authority given to the Beast.

Plus the abomination of desolation being setup is not synonymous with Satan being cast down anyway. The abomination of desolation is the image made of the slain and comeback to life beast. The 1290 days and the 1335 are based upon the abomination of desolation setup - not Satan being cast down, which is not at the exact midpoint anyway.

This is so far off the truth I will not bother to answer. Let the readers decide if the extra 30 and then 45 days comes AFTER the 1260 or somewhere in the middle of the 70th week.

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

No the starting place is not the exact midpoint. You have misunderstood that Satan being cast down and having the time, times, and half times left is not exactly 3 1/2 years, but a lesser amount.

If it starts a week after the exact midpoint, it will still be for 3.5 years. If it starts a month after the midpoint, it will still be for 3.5 years. However, I don't think it will take Michael and the angels for a few minutes to defeat Satan.

The only fixed point on the seven year timeline to understand what is meant is the last day that Jesus returns - blessed is the person who makes it to that day. Day 2520 on the timeline, the last day of the 70th week.

Except Jesus does not return on the last day. Go back and read. He does not return in chapter 16. He returns in chapter 19. All those events in chapters 17 and 18 will not take place instantly. Neither will the marriage and supper take place instantly. Go back and read it again. Jesus does not return until after the marriage and supper. Neither can you move the marriage and supper back in time. that will not work either.

12

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So counting back 1335 days from the last day of the 70th weeks is day 1185 on the 7 year timeline. Then 1290 days forward from day 1185 is day 2475, 45 days before Jesus returns, on day 2520.

STOP! Waiting is NOT counting backwards! It is waiting for time to pass. Go back and read it again. Your theory is MYTH. Give it up!

On day 2475, the events of the heavens parting and the world seeing Jesus before the thone of God, in Revelation 6, the sixth seal, puts the fear of God into the wicked men of the world. There are 45 days left till Jesus descend to earth.

It will take the convincing of the beast, the false prophet, and Satan, for the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon during the 45 days, and take half of the city of Jerusalem captive as hostages (Zechariah 14) before Jesus descends to the Mt. of Olives to rescue them and execute judgment on the armies gathered against him (Revelation 19:19).

What you have done in re-stating the specific time values written in the bible as 3 1/2 years alters the meaning - which in turn, you much assert a faulty claim that the 1290 days and the 1335 days extend beyond the 70th week violating the timeframe determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people.

You in your exact midpoint misunderstanding are not following the context - but are changing the context from a time, times, half times to 3 1/2 years. The exact midpoint is not a factor for anything except being the day that the two witnesses are killed.

All this is myth based on false theories. No commentary will agree with your theory.

 

[Douggg]

You have started out wrong. How they can anything else be truth? Did you just forget what Jesus said? They were to flee when they see the abomination. Whether or not you believe it, it will be the event that will divide the week. And it will be that event that causes those in Judea to FLEE. 12:6 shows us this fleeing. They BEGIN their flight maybe 2 seconds after they see the abomination that Jesus spoke of. The 1260 days of fleeing tell us this happens exactly at the midpoint of the week. So their fleeing will be for the LAST 1260 days.

That the 7 heads have their crowns in Chapter 12 indicates that the prophecy of the 7 kings is fulfulled because the full 7 years are in Chapter 12 as 12:6 + the time,times, half times.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days

The woman, Israel, is back in the land of Israel, that is the place prepared for her of God. She is fed the word of God for 1260 days, as the two prophets testify to her. The 1260 days is not due to the abomination being setup. However, near the end of the 1260 days, at day 1185, the AOD will be setup and the Jews begin fleeing to the mountains.

What you are doing is thinking - the woman has fled into the wilderness, that must be because the abomination of desolation was setup right before the 1260 days. But you are wrong in your thinking - because after the 1260 days in 12:6 is followed by the war in heaven and Satan cast down for a time, times, half times....and the woman flys into the wilderness.... from the face of the serpent.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The woman is not in the literal wilderness for 7 years, 1260 days before the war in heaven, and the time, times, half times after the war in heaven.

The problem with your interpretation, you have no way of accounting for the crowns on the seven heads - if both the 1260 days in 12:6 and the time, times, half times of 12:14 are talking about the same period, the second half. And the war in heaven in the text is between 12:6 and 12:14 also contradicts your view.

 

[Douggg]

In other words, the 1260 days of testifying will begin 3.5 days before the 1260 days of fleeing. The 1260 days of testifying will STOP 3.5 days before the fleeing will stop.

In you theory, what day on the 7 year timeline do the two witnesses begin testifying ? Show me how you can determine that day with out subtracting.

 

[Douggg]

The 1260 days of testifying will STOP 3.5 days before the fleeing will stop.

So in your theory, you have the Jews fleeing during the great tribulation - instead of before it gets going like Jesus said for them to do?

And in your theory, while the armies of the world near the end of the seven years are engaged in huge battles in Daniel 11:40-45 against the beast, and the heavens part revealing Jesus before the throne of God in heaven, men seeking to hide themselfs in caves, and hoping the moutains will fall on them in fear - under those conditions you are having the world partying and celebrating, exchanging gifts over the death of the two witnesses. Do you realize how preposterous that is?

 

[Douggg]

And I explained how you could be wrong.
It's not a salvation issue, we will see the truth in due course.

I agree it is not a salvation issue.

 

[Riberra]

I think that it is about time to clear up Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy about when it was fully accomplished.
The Angel Gabriel explain the vision and give understanding to Daniel.
Verse 24: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The people of Israel were given Seventy weeks which in term of prophecy means 490 years to accomplish what is written in Daniel 9:24 if that was not accomplished including -and to anoint of the most Holy- a terrible punishment will come upon them...Firstly the Messiah that they were commanded to anoint will be cut off in the middle of the LAST week ...
i believe that the killing of Jesus was the abomination which caused their desolation in 70 AD by the roman emperor of the time (Daniel 9:26)



Daniel 9
21
...Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[iamlamad]

So in your theory, you have the Jews fleeing during the great tribulation - instead of before it gets going like Jesus said for them to do?

And in your theory, while the armies of the world near the end of the seven years are engaged in huge battles in Daniel 11:40-45 against the beast, and the heavens part revealing Jesus before the throne of God in heaven, men seeking to hide themselfs in caves, and hoping the moutains will fall on them in fear - under those conditions you are having the world partying and celebrating, exchanging gifts over the death of the two witnesses. Do you realize how preposterous that is?

Wow! You simply amaze me. Did you not read in Rev. 12 that the very moment Satan is cast down, he goes immediately after those who have fled? I suspect it will take seconds or at the most minutes for Michael to cast Satan down. That is why Jesus told them there will be NO TIME to do anything but run. No time to grab a coat - no time to fix a sandwich - no time to call a cousin - no time for anything but run for your life. Satan will be AFTER THEM, but God will protect them.

So let's get the timing right: the man of sin enters the temple and says "I am God." The 7th trumpet sounds in heaven "marking" the exact midpoint. Those in Judea see this, probably on all the TV stations. It is perhaps 2 seconds now after he has said, "I am God." They begin to flee. Satan is cast down, and IMMEDIATELY goes after them. It is now maybe a few minutes into the last 1260 days. Satan tries his best to kill those that fled, but in failing that, turns after any who believe in Jesus Christ: the "remnant" of the seed of the woman, or the Christians left on earth after the rapture (including any new believers). Perhaps now it is a day or two, or a week or two into the last half. The days of great tribulation are starting.

engaged in huge battles in Daniel 11:40-45 against the beast
Sorry, but these battles will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week. 12:1 is at the midpoint.
The two witnesses will have been testify for a few days. The city will have been trampled for a few days. And those fleeing will have a long ways to go on foot to get to the city of Petra, if this is where their place is. So OF COURSE they will begin to flee some short time before Satan goes after them. Since he is trying his best to KILL them, the days of great tribulation will have begun. But since the mark and image have not yet been created, at least one could buy some water, if there was some along the way for sale. They will have supernatural protection ALL DURING the days of GT. It seems you have rearranged Revelation in your theory. Always remember, ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be proven wrong. If they were to flee in the first half, then the abomination must be in the first half. It is not.

the heavens part revealing Jesus before the throne of God in heaven, men seeking to hide themselfs in caves
This is at the 6th seal, before the 70th week even begins. Again you are messing with John's chronology in your theories. Leave his chronology alone and form your doctrine as Revelation is written, and you will be far closer to truth. I think you really need to LOCATE the 70th week in Revelation before you go any farther. Pinpoint it! It is clearly marked!

under those conditions you are having the world partying and celebrating, exchanging gifts over the death of the two witnesses.
No, actually under WORSE conditions: the two witnesses are killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial ends the week. At this time all but the 7th vial will have been poured out. The world will be in darkness. Men will be sitting in the dark, moaning for the pain. The only water to drink will be in stores. All the seas and all the fresh water will have turned to blood. Yes, it is at THIS time that men will be rejoicing that the two witnesses - whom they blame for their problems - will be killed.
Preposterous? No, it is the truth of scripture. We don't have any right to rearrange what John has written. What this tells us is that although times will be TERRIBLE, it will not be so terrible for the leaders of nations and those will lots of money. They will have water and food. After all, they have the mark.

 

[iamlamad]

In you theory, what day on the 7 year timeline do the two witnesses begin testifying ? Show me how you can determine that day with out subtracting.

Actually, I DO subtract. Suppose they begin testifying exactly at the midpoint, and testify for the last 1260 days. That is very close, but not exact according to scripture. Why? Because they begin BEFORE the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint. If we think about it, they begin 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint, because they will lie dead for 3 1/2 days.

So on a time line, they suddenly show up 3 1/3 days before the midpoint, testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. They are killed, lie dead for those 3 1/2 days, then rise up with all the saints on the last day of the Week, at the 7th vial. I guess I did not have to subtract. John gave us the 3 1/2 days.

 

[Douggg]

Actually, I DO subtract. Suppose they begin testifying exactly at the midpoint, and testify for the last 1260 days. That is very close, but not exact according to scripture. Why? Because they begin BEFORE the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint. If we think about it, they begin 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint, because they will lie dead for 3 1/2 days.

So on a time line, they suddenly show up 3 1/3 days before the midpoint, testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. They are killed, lie dead for those 3 1/2 days, then rise up with all the saints on the last day of the Week, at the 7th vial. I guess I did not have to subtract. John gave us the 3 1/2 days.

So on what day of the 2520 day 7 year timeline, do the two witnesses begin their testimony? day ????

 

[iamlamad]

That the 7 heads have their crowns in Chapter 12 indicates that the prophecy of the 7 kings is fulfulled because the full 7 years are in Chapter 12 as 12:6 + the time,times, half times.

This is simply wrong thinking, leading to wrong theories. So what if the 7 heads have their crowns? This is on SATAN, not on the Beast. Please show us what scripture you are looking at for the 7 kings. I HOPE not Rev. 17! Why? Because that is about 3 1/2 years FUTURE to chapter 12.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This is ANCIENT history, probably before earth was created. If not, then before Adam was born. Satan had already been cast out when Adam was created.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This one sentence tells us of Jesus' birth. HE is to rule the earth with a rod of Iron. He is the child that the woman (Israel) brought forth. Jesus' words to me concerning these 5 verses:

"I also CHOSE to show John what the devil did when I was born. These first five verses were a 'history lesson' for John."

In other words, these 5 verses are to show what the devil did using King Herod to attempt to murder Jesus as a child. These 5 verses are written as a parenthesis with no bearing on chronology at all. They are about Christ's birth.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days

This is exactly what Jesus said: the moment they SEE the abomination, they are to flee: so probably a few seconds after the exact midpoint.

The woman, Israel, is back in the land of Israel, that is the place prepared for her of God. She is fed the word of God for 1260 days, as the two prophets testify to her. The 1260 days is not due to the abomination being setup. However, near the end of the 1260 days, at day 1185, the AOD will be setup and the Jews begin fleeing to the mountains.

WRONG! The woman is Israel, yes. But SOME (probably few as a %) will flee from Jerusalem and head South-East for Petra. She is supernaturally fed FOOD! FOOD to eat! People running for their lives on foot across the desert will need WATER and FOOD. When God says "the woman were given two wings of a great eagle" it is to remind us that he carried the children of Israel "on Eagle's wings" as they walked out of Egypt, providing EVERYTHING they needed. God is tell us and those who will flee that again He will provide all they need. You cannot pull verse 14 out of its context! The contest is MIDPOINT of the week, and many fleeing for their life from the abomination they have just seen. They are following Jesus' command! Again, your theories are proven MYTH.

What you are doing is thinking - the woman has fled into the wilderness, that must be because the abomination of desolation was setup right before the 1260 days. But you are wrong in your thinking - because after the 1260 days in 12:6 is followed by the war in heaven and Satan cast down for a time, times, half times....and the woman flys into the wilderness.... from the face of the serpent.

This is confusing at best. I say the woman flees because they are following Jesus command.

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Is this difficult? It seems very straight forward. The REASON they are fleeing is because they have just seen the abomination. Fleeing is exactly what God told them to do. Untold millions of Christians believe this event will divide the week into two equal halves. John and the Holy Spirit PROVE this event will divide the week into equal halves because of the 5 mentions of the last half of the week. How much more proof do you need? John has given us this time in days, in months and in years! It cannot be that difficult to believe.

Look at this this way >>> 1260 days |abomination| 1260 days >>>

The abomination will probably come on the 1260th day of the first half of the week, the very last 24 hours. But it could come on the first day of the second half of the week. Either way, this event will divide the week into two exact halves of 1260 days each. Any other theory is MYTH. This is what is written.
after the 1260 days in 12:6

WHAT? No wonder you are struggling! Verse 6 STARTS the count of 1260 days! It will end on or very close to the 7th vial in Revelation 16!

Look, in NONE of these verses where time is mentioned does the count begin and run down in that one verse. That is silly! In 11:3, it is NOT 42 months after 11:2! In 11:4, it is NOT 1160 days after 11:3. The verse of mention is where the count BEGINS.

Five separate and parallel times running concurrently:
42 months of trampling
1260 days of testifying
1260 days of fleeing
1.5 years of protection and feeding (Manna again?)
42 months of authority

All speaking of the VERY SAME last half of the week. All of these counts will end at or around the 7th vial that ends the week.

In reality, the war in heaven will begin the moment Michael hears the 7th trumpet: that is his signal to go after Satan. That is when Satan loses and Jesus gains the kingdoms of the world.

Finally, verse 14 is associated with 12:6, NOT THE WAR. Satan is cast down FOREVER. He will never again after this point be allowed access to the heavenly realms.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The woman is not in the literal wilderness for 7 years, 1260 days before the war in heaven, and the time, times, half times after the war in heaven.

The woman - or that part of the woman who will see the abomination, remember the words of Jesus and flee, will CERTAINLY be in the wilderness for 1260 days or time, times and half of time. That is EXACTLY what these verses tell us! Go back and read 12:6 and 12:14 again, while imagining a group of people on foot, running for their life out of Jerusalem, heading for Jordan.

The problem with your interpretation, you have no way of accounting for the crowns on the seven heads - if both the 1260 days in 12:6 and the time, times, half times of 12:14 are talking about the same period, the second half. And the war in heaven in the text is between 12:6 and 12:14 also contradicts your view.

The crowns are the very least of your problems! The crowns are on Satan's head. The Dragon. If you only knew, those crowns were seen on his head in this vision at a time before Adam was created! See? You have created a theory involving crowns that is meaningless.

 

[iamlamad]

So on what day of the 2520 day 7 year timeline, do the two witnesses begin their testimony? day ????

I have said it several times now: 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint. If you force me, I can subtract:
1260 (first half) minus 3.5 = the 1256th day, plus a half day. It is MUCH easier to picture that they will suddenly show up just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint that will be marked by the 7th trumpet.

 

[Douggg]

the heavens part revealing Jesus before the throne of God in heaven, men seeking to hide themselfs in caves
This is at the 6th seal, before the 70th week even begins.

No, in Matthew 24, Jesus says after the great tribulation.

 

[iamlamad]

No, in Matthew 24, Jesus says after the great tribulation.

You are mistaken. Show us the exact verse in Matthew 24 you are thinking of and what verse in Rev. 6 you are associating it with.