Let's clear up the Eschatology Scripture?

[iamlamad]

No, he is not. The abomination of desolation will be the image the false prophet has made (by the people of the earth) of the beast. And that image is not made until after the person has been slain, and comes back to life.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

He is slain for committing the transgression, that is, going into the temple and claiming to be God. After he is brought back to life - then the false prophet has the image made of him and placed in the temple, which that image is the abomination of desolation..

It's not that complicated, Straightshot.

You can be wrong, if you choose to be - and it seems that is what you have chosen. Paul tells us exactly what happens: the man of sin, a GENTILE enters the temple, then the Holy of Holies, and declares he is god. Instantly the temple is defiled, and the daily sacrifices must cease - exactly what Dan. 9:27 tells us. LATER, after the False Prophet shows up, THEN an image will be created.

If you would only read instead of speculate, the wound is on ONE OF SEVEN HEADS, and the seven heads are NATIONS WITH KINGS. It is only a MYTH that the man of sin turned Beast will be killed.

Did you ever consider that IRAQ is the old Babylon, one of the 7 heads? Did you ever consider that the "king" of Iraq was hung? Would that be a "deadly wound?" I suspect Iraq will become another Muslim Brotherhood nation again. The "wound" will be healed.

 

[Straightshot]

"--The agenturs of Satan (illuminatis) plan to put it in place after their planned WW3 ...."


You are chasing the conspiracy theory buffs of the tabloids RB .... dump this junk and return to your Bible

 

[Douggg]

This is a theory. That is all it is. Suppose you show us some scripture that backs this theory up.

the 3 years, 3 months into the 7 years, the Aod setup to be worshiped

Actually, scripture is against this part of your theory. The Beast is revealed at the exact midpoint by the man of sin entering the temple and declaring he is god.

Where in the bible are you reading "the beast revealed" ? The person is not the beast at the time of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - revealing himself as the man of sin.

The False Prophet shows up some time later. We have no idea how much later, for John does not tell us. It is the False Prophet that persuades the Beast to create an image. You want this image to show up early. It will not happen.

The False Prophet does not persuade the beast to create an image. It is not in the bible.

Read Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


First you say "the beast revealed", but the bible says "the man of sin revealed". Then you say "the
false prophet persuades the beast to create an image", but the bible says the false prophet say to the inhabitants of the earth to make the image".

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease...

When a Gentile enters the Most Holy place in the temple, the temple will be defiled and all sacrifices MUST CEASE. So it is the man of sin entering the temple that will divide the week into two equal halves. I suspect LATER, after the False Prophet shows up, that the image is created and placed in the Most Holy place.

Where does it say Gentile in that verse ? Where does it say in the exact midpoint that he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease? It says midst - that means middle part - not the exact mid "point" day 1260.

 

[iamlamad]

Where in the bible are you reading "the beast revealed" ? The person is not the beast at the time of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - revealing himself as the man of sin.

You are right: he is the man of sin when he enters the temple, but when he comes out, or very shortly thereafter, he will become the Beast. It is very close after the midpoint abomination (7th trumpet) that John saw the Beast rise up.

The False Prophet does not persuade the beast to create an image. It is not in the bible.

Read Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

You are right; he persuades PEOPLE to make an image. My point is made though, and confirmed: the image is not created until AFTER the False Prophet shows up, which is AFTER the Beast rises up.

First you say "the beast revealed", but the bible says "the man of sin revealed". Then you say "the
false prophet persuades the beast to create an image", but the bible says the false prophet say to the inhabitants of the earth to make the image".

The Beast and the man of sin are the same being; the difference is TIME. You are right: I should have said "man of sin" revealed. When he is revealed, he will be revealed AS THE BEAST of Rev. 13. And You are right again: the false prophet persuades PEOPLE to build the image. I stand corrected. But why did you not say you were wrong in your timing? You want this image to exist before the midpoint of the week. That theory is impossible.

Where does it say Gentile in that verse ? Where does it say in the exact midpoint that he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease? It says midst - that means middle part - not the exact mid "point" day 1260.

Can you divide something in half? Do you know how to divide by two? Of course you do: but you have preconceived glasses on.

360 times 7 = 2520
2520 divided by 2 = 1260

"Midst" = "chetsiy"
Chetsiy: (Strongs)

1. 
   
   
   • half
     1. half
     2. middle

Here is absolute proof that both God, Daniel and John knew how to divided in half:

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (1260 days)

You and I BOTH know that Jesus said they were to flee the moment they see the abomination. They will flee and be protected for 1260 days which is exactly ONE HALF (Chetsiy) (Midst) of the week.

Daniel was right on - to the very day. He said that this abomination event would divide the week into two exact halves. John proves this with the 1260 days of fleeing.

Finally, do you imagine that the man of sin is Jewish? It is far more likely that he is Syrian. (Assyria) No, there is no verse that tells us directly that he is a Gentile. And there certainly is no verse that tells us an image will be placed in the temple before day 1260 (midpoint) or even slightly after.

 

[Douggg]

You can be wrong, if you choose to be - and it seems that is what you have chosen. Paul tells us exactly what happens: the man of sin, a GENTILE enters the temple,

Where, the exact verse that Paul says the man of sin is a gentile?

 

[Douggg]

You are right: he is the man of sin when he enters the temple, but when he comes out, or very shortly thereafter, he will become the Beast. It is very close after the midpoint abomination (7th trumpet) that John saw the Beast rise up.

Where does it say when he comes out of the temple he will become the beast? When the person goes into the temple sits, claiming to be God - how long is the person in that room? I am trying to show you that you make off-handed comments that are not in the bible. You just make commentary and use terminology that is not in the bible - like "midpoint abmonination" , that no-one can relate to. I would suggest that you do more copying and pasting of verses and underline the exact words.

 

[Douggg]

You are right; he persuades PEOPLE to make an image. My point is made though, and confirmed: the image is not created until AFTER the False Prophet shows up, which is AFTER the Beast rises up.

There is presentation order - which John sees the second beast after the first beast, agreed. And the image is not made until after the beast is slain and comes back to life, agreed.

The beast rising up out of the sea, is reference to the beast as a kingdom. And we can conclude that the person, the beast, comes from the gentile nations. But that does not mean he is a gentile. There are Jews in the gentile nations around the world.

On a timeline order, the kingdom, associated with the beast, starts before the last 42 months, and before the seven years begin. It is the fourth empire, the feet of iron and clay mixed, which I conclude is the EU.

 

[iamlamad]

Where does it say when he comes out of the temple he will become the beast? When the person goes into the temple sits, claiming to be God - how long is the person in that room? I am trying to show you that you make off-handed comments that are not in the bible. You just make commentary and use terminology that is not in the bible - like "midpoint abmonination" , that no-one can relate to. I would suggest that you do more copying and pasting of verses and underline the exact words.

EVERYONE should relate to "Midpoint abomination" because of Dan. 9:27. Google gives us 245 results of "Midpoint abomination" with the quotes. I know that in Dan. 9:27 it is the ceasing of the daily sacrifices that is written. But what causes the sacrifices to cease? Paul tells us: the man of sin enters the temple. ONLY the High Priest is allowed to enter the most holy place and that only once a year. So Jew OR Gentile, it is for sure that the "man of sin" will not be the high priest.

Again, I think most people think the Antichrist Beast will be a Gentile. I do too. Yes, I know "Antichrist Beast" is not in the bible either. But MANY people call the Beast of chapter 13 the "Antichrist." I think that term is justified. We could also call him the "Leopard Beast." Would that term be more scriptural? Some people say it is not scriptural to call him the "Antichrist." I think it is justified because John wrote "ye have heard that antichrist shall come."

NO ONE knows how long he will be in the temple after declaring he is God. But the point is, what was Paul's meaning of the man being "revealed?" Revealed as WHOM? I think it is understood he will be revealed as the Beast of Revelation, the Antichrist, or whatever other name you wish to title him with. He will be revealed as the man who will do the abomination and divide the week. When those living in Judea SEE the man of sin in the Holy of Holies declare he is god, he will CERTAINLY be revealed to those who flee as the one who commits the abomination.

You are right: I write too much from memory when I should quote actual scripture. The only excuse I can offer is the time. If I took a lot of time on each post I would do nothing else. As it is, my prayer life suffers because I spend too much time here.

 

[iamlamad]

There is presentation order - which John sees the second beast after the first beast, agreed. And the image is not made until after the beast is slain and comes back to life, agreed.

The beast rising up out of the sea, is reference to the beast as a kingdom. And we can conclude that the person, the beast, comes from the gentile nations. But that does not mean he is a gentile. There are Jews in the gentile nations around the world.

On a timeline order, the kingdom, associated with the beast, starts before the last 42 months, and before the seven years begin. It is the fourth empire, the feet of iron and clay mixed, which I conclude is the EU.

I don't think any scripture tells us the Beast (as a man) is slain. Neither do I find he comes back to life. I think this theory is myth. I find in scripture that ONE of the 7 heads (7 nations with 7 kings) gets a deadly wound. I think that could be Iraq.

Don't forget, many people think the prophets called him "The Assyrian." I am not sure this is true.

Many people think "Europe." Europe may be involved as some of the nations that come against Israel in the "last hour" to wipe Israel off the map (I am sure they are told that will be their purpose) will probably come from Europe.

I don't know if you have heard of him, but less than a year ago, and 15 year old Jewish boy died and was taken to heaven to see the end of this age play out. He was world war 3, for example. He saw the two witnesses. He saw the great battle of Armageddon. He said 70 nations together come against Israel for that great battle. He even told us who would be leading them. This leader he mentioned probably shocked some people, but he said this was who was leading the 70 nations: He SAW him as he was seeing this play out in heaven. I believe what he saw was truth. You can find it on youtube. Hmmm. It has been rumored on the news that this man is even a JEW! He has said he is a Jew.

 

[Douggg]

The Beast and the man of sin are the same being; the difference is TIME. You are right: I should have said "man of sin" revealed. When he is revealed, he will be revealed AS THE BEAST of Rev. 13. And You are right again: the false prophet persuades PEOPLE to build the image. I stand corrected. But why did you not say you were wrong in your timing? You want this image to exist before the midpoint of the week. That theory is impossible.

I am not wrong in my timing.

lamad, here is what I suggest. On a piece of paper draw a long horizontal line with day 1 on the left and day 2520 on the right. And start putting events on the timeline. Like Jesus returns, note that on day 2520. Everything has to fit on the 7 year timeline - because it is 70 weeks determined on the Jews, until the Most Holy is anointed - which is Jesus returning to earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

The only text that pinpoints the day that the Abomination of desolation is setup is in Daniel 12:11-12. The 1335 days has to fit within the 7 year timeline.

There is nothing that says the AOD is setup on the exact midPOINT, the exact middle of the week. It says in the midst of the week, the middle part. day 1185 is in the middle part of the week.

 

[Riberra]

I don't think any scripture tells us the Beast (as a man) is slain. Neither do I find he comes back to life. I think this theory is myth. I find in scripture that ONE of the 7 heads (7 nations with 7 kings) gets a deadly wound. I think that could be Iraq.

That is one of the 7 Kings/Rulers (a very charismatic man and great defender of the cause of Israel on the world scene at the time) who will receive what seem a ''deadly wound'' at the head and comes back to life.At that point he will become the Antichrist/ Beast.
Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads AS IT were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

, but less than a year ago, and 15 year old Jewish boy died and was taken to heaven to see the end of this age play out. He saw world war 3,

The State of Israel was created in 1948 after WW2 for the only reason to be one day the ''sparking plug'' starting WW3.

http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil.
------------
Note :that makes the news nearly every weeks.
The terrorists attack perpetrated worldwide by the Muslims extremists ISIS and Al Quada and their supporters.(agenturs)


Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time." 4

Since the terrorist attacks of Sept 11, 2001, world events, and in particular in the Middle East, show a growing unrest and instability between Modern Zionism and the Arabic World./ This is completely in line with the call for a Third World War to be fought between the two, and their allies on both sides. This Third World War is still to come, and recent events show us that it is not far off.

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

False dreams purported to be from the Lord should always be suspect

The only truth has already been scripted by the Lord and His Bible prophets .... anything else is always a perversion .... always has been always will be

The boy gave a false hood .... the beast in the little horn will not be a "Jew"

 

[Douggg]

Where in the bible are you reading "the beast revealed" ? The person is not the beast at the time of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God - revealing himself as the man of sin.



The False Prophet does not persuade the beast to create an image. It is not in the bible.

Read Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


First you say "the beast revealed", but the bible says "the man of sin revealed". Then you say "the
false prophet persuades the beast to create an image", but the bible says the false prophet say to the inhabitants of the earth to make the image".



Where does it say Gentile in that verse ? Where does it say in the exact midpoint that he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease? It says midst - that means middle part - not the exact mid "point" day 1260.

 

[Douggg]

iamlamad said: ↑
This is a theory. That is all it is. Suppose you show us some scripture that backs this theory up.

the 3 years, 3 months into the 7 years, the Aod setup to be worshiped

Actually, scripture is against this part of your theory. The Beast is revealed at the exact midpoint by the man of sin entering the temple and declaring he is god.

The AOD will be setup 1335 days before Jesus returns on day 2520 of the seven years. Based on Daniel 12:12.

That math works out to day 1185 on the 7 year timeline.

Day 1185 in years is 3 years 3 months 15 days from day 1.

The AOD is setup after the person becomes the beast. The person does not become the beast until after he is slain and comes back alive. The person is not slain until he commits the act of the transgression of desolation, going into the temple claiming to be God.

The only thing that we can pinpoint exactly on a timeline is Day 1185 the AOD setup day. The things in blue and brown above we can not put an exact day on the timeline because there is not information avialable.

We can only know that before the AOD is setup, the person has to become the beast (1), and before then, the person has to commit the act of the transgression of desolation (2).

But the 3 years, 3 months into the 7 years is an approximation in terms of years and months..... that the person is the Antichrist. Once he commits the transgression of desolation act, revealing himself as the man of sin, the Jews mortified, will reject him as continuing as their king of Israel, ending his time as the Antichrist.

He is then shortly killed and brought back to life as the beast. And the AOD image of him setup on day 1185.

The Antichrist is just the forthcoming false king of Israel instead of Jesus the rightful King of Israel. It's not complicated. The other titles of the person, like little horn, revealed man of sin, the beast..... he is not the Antichrist in those. You don't read Antichrist in Revelation - because the person is no longer the Antichrist - king of Israel - when he is the beast.

 

[Straightshot]

Satan's beast in the little horn will be the ultimate "antichrist" Doug

The one who is "against" Jesus Christ .... not in place of ....he will blaspheme the Lord to His face

And this one will be an Assyrian, not the king of Israel

Jesus Christ is the Messiah and king of Israel .... always has been, always will be

 

[Douggg]

Satan's beast in the little horn will be the ultimate "antichrist" Doug

"ultimate antichrist" is not a bible term. Neither is "Satan's beast."

The one who is "against" Jesus Christ .... not in place of ....he will blaspheme the Lord to His face

And where in the bible does it say "not in place of" ? And where in the bible does it say "he will blaspmene the Lord to His Face?

And this one will be an Assyrian, not the king of Israel

Jesus Christ is the Messiah and king of Israel .... always has been, always will be

I don't think you understand that Jesus said that the Jews are not going to see him again - until they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord - Matthew 23:39

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, but he is not sitting on David's throne ruling Israel from Jerusalem. What does this say in Psalms 2, what is the event being referred to "who do the heathens rage and immagine a vain thing?

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. [begotten as what, straightforward? What day?]

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Is Jesus ruling the earth with a rod of iron right now ? If so, why are there so many dictatorship, abusive governments, and ISIS ? Does Israel acknowledge that Jesus is the son of David ? Rightful king of Israel ?

They do not, and will not, until after they go through the period of another, the Antichrist, as their perceived messiah King of Israel.

On the day that Jesus returns, the last day of the 7 years, as the kings of the earth have gathered their armies to fight him, on that day is the day God sets Jesus on David's throne in Jerusalem begetting him as the anointed King of Israel that day.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

To anoint the most Holy is Jesus sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

 

[Douggg]

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (1260 days)

You and I BOTH know that Jesus said they were to flee the moment they see the abomination. They will flee and be protected for 1260 days which is exactly ONE HALF (Chetsiy) (Midst) of the week.

Daniel was right on - to the very day. He said that this abomination event would divide the week into two exact halves. John proves this with the 1260 days of fleeing.

Finally, do you imagine that the man of sin is Jewish? It is far more likely that he is Syrian. (Assyria) No, there is no verse that tells us directly that he is a Gentile. And there certainly is no verse that tells us an image will be placed in the temple before day 1260 (midpoint) or even slightly after.

If the 1260 days in 12:6, all of it is the time of the woman fleeing - based upon the AOD setup - ending the 7 years at the end of the 1260 days of 12:6...... then what rationale can you possibly have that there follows that 1260 days, in Revelation 12:7-9, the war in heaven and Satan cast down a time, time, times after the seven years are over?

Daniel 9 does not divide the week into exact halfs according to when the abomination of desolation is setup.

 

[Straightshot]

"ultimate antichrist" is not a bible term. Neither is "Satan's beast."


Believe that Satan is the ultimate "antichrist" by his design

You have to use your brain Doug .... connecting the dots of scripture is essential for correct rendering

Your remark is a cop out ... obviously a debating tactic

This behavior weak and shows your intent

Who gives Abaddon his power and authority Doug?

 

[Riberra]

"--The agenturs of Satan (illuminatis) plan to put it in place after their planned WW3 ...."


You are chasing the conspiracy theory buffs of the tabloids RB .... dump this junk and return to your Bible

The Luciferian (Satan) conspiracy against humanity have begun in the Garden of Eden [Genesis 3 Satan is the talking serpent] and will be at its peak during the last 42 months preceding the Coming of Jesus in Glory [Revelation 13 ]. The ultimate goal is that all humans alive on the Earth at that time including Christians will not have access to Jesus' Salvation and will end in the lake of fire if they worship the Beast/AC and take his mark [Revelation 14:9-13].

 

[Douggg]

Satan's beast in the little horn will be the ultimate "antichrist" Doug

ultimate antichrist is not a bible concept or term. The person is no longer the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel, when he becomes the beast.