Let us talk masturbation.

"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -Matthew 5:28

So if you are looking at or even thinking about a person while doing it, then according to the bible, you are committing adultery, which is a big sin. And I've never heard of somebody masterbating without lusting, you only get turned on when you are sexually attracted to something. And if you act on it, that's lusting.[FONT=Corbel, Verdana, sans-serif]
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Fallior said:

"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." -Matthew 5:28

So if you are looking at or even thinking about a person while doing it, then according to the bible, you are committing adultery, which is a big sin. And I've never heard of somebody masterbating without lusting, you only get turned on when you are sexually attracted to something. And if you act on it, that's lusting.[FONT=Corbel, Verdana, sans-serif]
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Even nocturnal emissions are associated with very sexualized dreams.

OGM said:

Even nocturnal emissions are associated with very sexualized dreams.

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I would doubt that this applies to all nocturnal emissions.

Here we go again! Ha! Ha!

Well, interestingly enough, I've been trying to wean myself off of 'the habit' for a little while now. Not because it's a sin - (because I don't agree with shaming yourself into making a decision) but because masturbation, for me, seems to lead to procrastination.

I also believe that all of that pent up energy 'held within' could be better utilised if it is channelled positively, and perceived by me in a different light to be used in a much more constructive manner. Surely all of that burning passion and desire can be turned on its head and used to aid a project, my career, or a passion of mine? Perhaps all three if I actively make the time? AND the effort.

It's just a case of energy transfer, and to challenge your perception of a situation. Is high testosterone a reason to 'release' yourself? Or can it be a tool used for an energy, focus, and confidence increase?

But anyway, if you DO want to become abstinent then do it for the right reasons - don't do it because you feel you SHOULD. If you do chose to, then try not to dwell on your sexual thoughts - be aware of them, but don't acknowledge the thought of acting on them - because as humans, we do a very good job of defeating ourselves before we've given ourselves a chance - so don't see yourself as weak, because if you do you'll almost certainly give in.

On the same token, it's not a weakness TO give in. But if you feel that you'll benefit from NOT masturbating then pray for the strength to continue on without it. It's all in the mind. You don't have to acknowledge the thoughts, you can just keep aiming to improve yourself with your new found energy and focus.

However, if you chose to continue masturbating then don't EVER feel guilty or shameful about it. It's the most natural thing you can do - just don't place it above reading the bible, saying your prayers, or cracking on with those niggling chores! God comes first, your career prospects second...

Ultimately it's your choice. But I do recommend a short hiatus - (say, a week?) to see how you do. Incidentally, the first week tends to be the hardest.


*Edit; this post isn't aimed at anyone in particular.

IAmAKaur said:

I would doubt that this applies to all nocturnal emissions.

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Dreams are not necessarily remembered once the person wakes up hours later. If a person wakes up as the event occurs...the dream will probably be remembered.

OGM said:

Even nocturnal emissions are associated with very sexualized dreams.

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That doesn't apply because you aren't in control of your dreams. Obviously God is talking about intentional lust, even if the dream is remembered.

OGM said:

Dreams are not necessarily remembered once the person wakes up hours later. If a person wakes up as the event occurs...the dream will probably be remembered.

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Surely a man cannot be held accountable for something of which he is ignorant?

Fallior said:

That doesn't apply because you aren't in control of your dreams. Obviously God is talking about intentional lust, even if the dream is remembered.

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An uncontrolled dream will often go in a much, much wilder direction than a controlled event...

OGM said:

An uncontrolled dream will often go in a much, much wilder direction than a controlled event...

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That does not matter, if it's out of control, like the guy above said, you shouldn't be held accountable. Of course that doesn't apply to everything, such as getting into a car accident, but your dreams have a mind of it's own. It will think of things that you would never think of consciously.



Also, on a side note. RIP Robin Williams. He just died about an hour or 2 ago.

Fallior said:

That does not matter, if it's out of control, like the guy above said, you shouldn't be held accountable. Of course that doesn't apply to everything, such as getting into a car accident, but your dreams have a mind of it's own. It will think of things that you would never think of consciously.

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I close analogy would be relieving bodily waste. One can hold it and ulitimately go in ones cloths while sleeping. Waking up in one's own mess. Or a person can control themselves and not make a mess of themselves.

I find it curious that we discuss and debate and indeed argue over whether or not it's okay to diddle ourselves. I have arrived at the idea that I won't ever convince anyone it's right or wrong, so I voiced my opinion previously, but it's interesting how some of you carry on as if you're trying to convince others. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's somewhat entertaining.

So if you are looking at or even thinking about a person while doing it, then according to the bible, you are committing adultery, which is a big sin.

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Yet again, the context is adultery. If you are a married man and you lustfully look at or fantasize about another woman you may as well already be sleeping with her, you are betraying your wife in your heart. That's the point. Likewise, if you are a single guy lustfully looking at and lusting after another man's wife, same point applies. The context is ADULTERY. Never forget the context.

Being sexually attracted to a woman is not a sin, I'm sorry. Fantasizing about an imaginary woman and getting yourself off is not a sin my dude. Honestly I can't even find a scriptural basis for prohibition against fantasizing about a real woman as long as she isn't another man's wife, supposing you also are single, and so long as it is not done with ill intent.

Believe it or not, God designed us to want to have sex. He commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, and designed our biology to respond to this command beginning in our teenage years. Our culture hates marriage and tends to delay it until late young adulthood. It is quite frankly insane to consider it a sin for a single man or woman to pleasure themselves while they wait for their future spouse to come into their lives.

We can so easily get all wrapped up in the commandments of men, which may have an appearance of piety, but in the end are absolutely worthless. Sexual immorality involves fornication and adultery, not masturbation or wet dreams.

"If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence."
- Colossians 2:20-23

I find it curious that we discuss and debate and indeed argue over whether or not it's okay to diddle ourselves.

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I know, its hilarious isn't it? I'm just trying to drop some sanity into this thread.

OGM said:

I close analogy would be relieving bodily waste. One can hold it and ulitimately go in ones cloths while sleeping. Waking up in one's own mess. Or a person can control themselves and not make a mess of themselves.

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I doubt there's a single guy in the world who hasn't had a wet dream, or who could control it while sleeping, which is not under your control.

1 Peter 2:11 ESV

"Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul."

Masturbation is a passion of the flesh. The Lord repeatedly warns us to stay away from sexual immorality. Anything to do with your bits and pieces before marriage is sexually immoral.

Masturbation is a passion of the flesh.

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Where is that in scripture? Galatians 2 contrasts fruits of the flesh vs fruits of the spirit, and I've yet to find a mention of masturbation. By your logic any kind of sexual act, including marital sex, would be a "passion of the flesh". Are we to be celibate?

The Lord repeatedly warns us to stay away from sexual immorality.

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I've been involved in sexual immorality. And I mean real sexual immorality. Masturbation is not even in the same proximity. Again, where in scripture is masturbation regarded as sexually immoral?

Anything to do with your bits and pieces before marriage is sexually immoral.

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According to...you? Where do you find this in the bible? Fornication is prohibited, adultery is prohibited, masturbation is...well...not. We are not to add our own rules to scripture.

DarkWalker said:

I find it curious that we discuss and debate and indeed argue over whether or not it's okay to diddle ourselves. I have arrived at the idea that I won't ever convince anyone it's right or wrong, so I voiced my opinion previously, but it's interesting how some of you carry on as if you're trying to convince others. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's somewhat entertaining.

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Some people do change their minds about it, but it's mostly interesting to hear different perspectives on it. I'm intrigued by IAmAKaur's Eastern take on it. I hadn't thought about it in the Sikh context of earthly attachment.

Funny how it is not even mentioned In the Bible...yet is so polarizing.

The way I see it, there's no sin in touching yourself. The sin is in whether or not we think lustful thoughts. As with the debates surrounding porn or many other sexual things, it comes back to lust, and what the definition of that is. It is possible to touch without lust, but I don't think it's very advisable, given that lust could be just a step or two away at that point.

Paul makes the point in Scripture that all things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial. I can see that in relation to masturbation. Of course, this debate will spin in circles for a few more weeks or months before people finally lose interest. It's just fascinating how fascinated people are with the subject.

Depending on one's gender...the alternative is not too pleasant. In a male, nocturnal emissions can be akin to urinating in one's sleep. I guess some people are cool with that...more power to them.

The sin is in whether or not we think lustful thoughts

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But as far as I can tell there is only one reference to that in scripture and it is in the context of adultery. So you could make an argument that a married man masturbating while fantasying about a woman other than his wife would be sinful, but that's as far as you could really take it.

And what do we really mean by lust? Simple sexual attraction? Or a compulsive objectification of another person? Or something else? Plus we need to keep in mind that Jesus' words in the sermon on the mount, like much of the rest of his discourse, was meant to shatter a person's self-righteousness by revealing the perfect standard of God, thereby revealing the sin that dwells in us, and consequently our need of grace.

No one, not even a Christian, can perfectly obey the standard Jesus set. That is the point, of ourselves we can do nothing. We ought to be more concerned about what we are called to do rather than worrying about little ambiguous personal actions that are not even referenced in scripture. Think about how much better off we'd all be in our spiritual walk if we spent as much time worrying about feeding the poor as we do worrying about whether its Ok to touch ourselves.

Again the problem comes down to Christians pulling a single verse way out of its context and using it to justify man-made religious rules. How many of you would defend the words of Jesus with the same intensity If I threw out the verse about selling everything you have and giving it all to the poor? If any of you think that you can follow Jesus perfectly, start there and let me know how it goes.