Lesson in Cladistics: Playing Cards

[Loudmouth]

As an illustration of how cladistics works (or doesn't work in this case) I would like to challenge a creationist to put playing cards into categories based on the differences between the cards.

Any takers?

 

[RickG]

The more I think about it that is a great exercise, but I already know what they are going to do. They will focus on one aspect and ignore all the rest of the obvious facts.

Creationist example: Sure, one is a club, one is a heart, one is a diamond, and one is a spade; but a four is still a four, etc., etc., etc.....

 

[juvenissun]

As an illustration of how cladistics works (or doesn't work in this case) I would like to challenge a creationist to put playing cards into categories based on the differences between the cards.

Any takers?

By color? By pattern?
What is the trick?

 

[AV1611VET]

What is the trick?

The Jokers ...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As an illustration of how cladistics works (or doesn't work in this case) I would like to challenge a creationist to put playing cards into categories based on the differences between the cards.

Any takers?

I would go for the cateories that will give me a royal flush

Acts 12:21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne and made an oration unto them.
22 And the people gave a shout, [saying, "It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man".
23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

 

[Loudmouth]

By color? By pattern?
What is the trick?

I want you to organize them into groups based on their differences. You can pick any differences that you like.

 

[AV1611VET]

I want you to organize them into groups based on their differences. You can pick any differences that you like.

52 cards and 2 jokers.

The difference is 52 inanimate objects (viz., spades, hearts, diamonds & clubs) and 2 scientists.

 

[Loudmouth]

52 cards and 2 jokers.

The difference is 52 inanimate objects (viz., spades, hearts, diamonds & clubs) and 2 scientists.

Inanimate is a characteristic that the objects share. Being scientists is what those two people share. I didn't ask for you to organize the cards into groups based on what they share. I am asking for groups based on differences. This is how creationists claim that they organize species, so I am asking for creationists to do the same thing with cards which is less controversial. Other discussions get bogged down on preconceptions where they relate to biology. I am using objects where no such preconceptions exist in order to move the discussion along.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Loudmouth I want you to organize them into groups based on their differences. You can pick any differences that you like.

52 cards and 2 jokers.

The difference is 52 inanimate objects (viz., spades, hearts, diamonds & clubs) and 2 scientists.

ROFL

 

[AV1611VET]

Inanimate is a characteristic that the objects share. Being scientists is what those two people share. I didn't ask for you to organize the cards into groups based on what they share. I am asking for groups based on differences. This is how creationists claim that they organize species, so I am asking for creationists to do the same thing with cards which is less controversial. Other discussions get bogged down on preconceptions where they relate to biology. I am using objects where no such preconceptions exist in order to move the discussion along.

I'm sorry then ... I don't understand exactly what it is you're looking for.

 

[AV1611VET]

ROFL

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm sorry then ... I don't understand exactly what it is you're looking for.

It's right there in the opening post . . . "put playing cards into categories based on the differences between the cards."

 

[AV1611VET]

It's right there in the opening post . . . "put playing cards into categories based on the differences between the cards."

1. Spades, Hears, Clubs, Diamonds?
2. Red cards / black cards?
3. Euchre deck?
4. Odd numbers / even numbers?

I'm lost.

Cladistics is good for separating falcons and eagles in a zoo by diet or vaccinations, but as far as playing cards ... well ... I'm lost.

 

[metherion]

While I'm not a creationist, would you like me to maybe post an example to get it started? While browsing through the first page, I thought up a way pretty quickly.

Metherion

 

[Loudmouth]

1. Spades, Hears, Clubs, Diamonds?
2. Red cards / black cards?
3. Euchre deck?
4. Odd numbers / even numbers?

No, those are shared characteristics. I am asking for you to group cards based on their differences.

I'm lost.

A little hint . . . that's kind of the point.

Cladistics is good for separating falcons and eagles in a zoo by diet or vaccinations, but as far as playing cards ... well ... I'm lost.

So how do you determine if a bird belongs to the falcon group based on differences?

 

[Loudmouth]

While I'm not a creationist, would you like me to maybe post an example to get it started? While browsing through the first page, I thought up a way pretty quickly.

Metherion

Sure, go for it.

 

[AV1611VET]

So how do you determine if a bird belongs to the falcon group based on differences?

Well, if you stick falcons in with eagles, and the falcons are getting sick all the time, then you might want to check to see if the falcons can handle the diet that the eagles can; or if giving them both the same vaccinations is detrimental to one and not the other.

Check their feces, while you're at it too -- (and I'm not being funny).

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey Phil, didn't you have a thread on the now defunct GA board concerning a deck of cards challenge [also a bicycle challenge]?

Anywho, here is another card challenge thread ehehehe

http://www.christianforums.com/t6741220/
My [playing card] Challenge

Originally Posted by dantose A guy deals out 5 cards face down. He tells you that he knows it's a royal flush of spades. He then places the cards back in the deck and throws them into an incinerator. When asked how he knows, he says he read in a book that everytime 5 cards aren't looked at or otherwise determined, they are a royal flush of spades

I would get another deck of cards, deal five cards face down, then look at the other forty-seven cards. The first time a 10, J, Q, K,or A of Spades appeared, your book has been pwned.

But a second deck is not in the challenge as given.
you changing the rules now ?

 

[Loudmouth]

Well, if you stick falcons in with eagles,

The question is how you determine if a bird is a falcon or an eagle to begin with. That is what I am addressing with the playing cards. Creationists claim that they are creating groups by comparing differences. I am asking them to use these same criteria to group cards as an exersize.

 

[juvenissun]

No, those are shared characteristics. I am asking for you to group cards based on their differences.


A little hint . . . that's kind of the point.


So how do you determine if a bird belongs to the falcon group based on differences?

Classification of anything is done based on a set of criteria. Those fit the criteria will be in one group and those don't will be in another group. So you are looking at neither similarity nor differences (you do not compare them). You are looking for the characters of each individual.

There is a group of people called creationist. They are human too. Then why do you call them creationist?