Legalism

[JM]

We could as well include pseudo sincerity to every topic,or a trite agenda.

Placing believers in bondage to your cultural North American Baptist belief isn't an agenda?

 

[now faith]

We become sons of God by the adoption of Christ paying all for us.

As to little Gods:

Genesis: 1. 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Be it God made man in his image including are own body,soul,spirit ,then redeemed us from sin making us sons,

I do not labor us being called little God's as long as we are not considered to be God's in our own personna.

Copelands quote was a mistake, due to his lack of foresight of criticism eluding to him saying he was a God.

it was a logical assumption since we were made in his image ,without his omnipotence or mighty power.

 

[now faith]

Placing believers in bondage to your cultural North American Baptist belief isn't an agenda?

Why is it my agenda?

And no I am not under bondage at all.

Whom the son has set free is free indeed

 

[twin1954]

I think Rick Warren is the poster child of modern baptist legalism with all his followers who are pastors preaching his theology. He is constantly telling people 3,4,5,6,7 steps to improve your life somehow, to think big, and telling you about God's dream for your life and if you don't see this in your life its because your not working on your own life. None of it points to the gospel. NONE of it.

That is what false religion does. It points you to yourself instead of to the finished work of Christ. It appeals to the majority because it feeds the need in us for doing something. The natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit because they have not the Spirit, 1Cor. 2:14. What we naturally think about spiritual things is always wrong. Belivers walk by faith not by sight. We rest in the finished work of Christ and have no confidence in the flesh.

Legalism appeals to the natural religionist because it gives him something to do. Truth never appeals to the natural man because it depends totally on someone else. It takes you outside of yourself and puts you in the hands of another. It is like a man who jumps from a burning building. His life is now in the hands of another to catch him and he is totally committed to that fact.

 

[hedrick]

There’s actually two kinds of legalism, which I’ll call theology legalism and moral legalism.

* Theological legalism says that we are justified by our works. Jesus teaches obedience, and so do the various epistles. So requiring obedience is not legalism. It is requiring obedience independent of the faith on which it is based that is legalism, or saying that we can be justified by having our works be sufficiently perfect.

* Moral legalism, however, can exist even in people who understand perfectly that justification is by faith. It’s defining obedience by rules that can’t be supported by Scripture. The discussion over using wine is an example. People who advocate prohibition are not necessarily theological legalists.

It's worth distinguishing these, to avoid making accusations against people that are false.

 

[JM]

hedrick I believe your definitions are useful, however, there is a third group who are able to profess the biblical doctrine of justification only to deny it with their moralism.

 

[Alithis]

Here's a definition I came across. What do you think?

Legalism is seeking to achieve forgiveness from God and acceptance by God through obedience to God .

i think i could only partially agree .
based on that forgiveness is not "achieved " by any self effort ,other the,n the humility of admitting the need and asking for it with intent to cease from it .
and God clearly "rewards" obedience .

i would define legalism as an attitude of seeking to impose ones present perception of all things God upon everyone else regardless of where they are at in their journey and relationship to him - loosley

 

[outsidethecamp]

Jesus said to his disciples, “Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20).

The scribes and Pharisees were playing it by the book. They didn’t slip up on a single do or don’t. But they were getting it all wrong.

 

[outsidethecamp]

In the study of church history I learned that reform movements in the church too often follow a familiar pattern. First come the CONCEPTUALIZERS who see how to apply a biblical principle where they live, next are the CRUSADERS who spread it, then CODIFIERS who make sure it is written down just right, others CRYSTALIZE it and put it on pedestals for us to admire, and the CONCRETE-setters finally ensure that it can never be changed. Before long the process has to begin all over again—the phariseeism and legalism must be broken—if there is to be any power and meaningful application of God’s message.

–William Conard

 

[Alithis]

We become sons of God by the adoption of Christ paying all for us.

As to little Gods:

Genesis: 1. 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Be it God made man in his image including are own body,soul,spirit ,then redeemed us from sin making us sons,

I do not labor us being called little God's as long as we are not considered to be God's in our own personna.

Copelands quote was a mistake, due to his lack of foresight of criticism eluding to him saying he was a God.

it was a logical assumption since we were made in his image ,without his omnipotence or mighty power.

little gods...Hmmm i avoid the terminology .. we know the word means spirit .. we don't become "little spirits" as christians . we are already spirits . but we are made alive again in Him ..
the english word "god" holds far to much connotation of something far more and so when it is used in that context it grossly (whether intentionally of not let God judge) misrepresents us .
we are spirits and God is the creator the most High one true living and greatest Spirit who has no beginning and no end and who has no greater .

-and hey there nowfaith ... hows things

 

[Soyeong]

Legalism does not refer to whether someone thinks that they should follow one or many laws, but rather it refers to the manner in which they obey them. Do they outwardly obey the letter of the law without regard its intent while their hearts are far from God? Or do inwardly obey the spirit of the law according to the spiritual principles behind it by faith in a way that builds a relationship them and God? God has always been after our hearts and has always disdained outward obedience to His law while our hearts were far from Him (Isaiah 1:13-17, Mark 7:6-9), so the law should be kept out of faith and love. Love always gives joyfully with no expectation of return, so we should keep God's law because it is a delight (Psalms 1:1-2) and not because we expect to be justified in return. If we do what someone else wants because we expect anything in return, even a "thank you", then it is a legal transaction that's not really love in the first place.

 

[Alithis]

good point

 

[outsidethecamp]

Legalism is the total absence of love.

John 5:42
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

Matthew 23:2-4
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[now faith]

There’s actually two kinds of legalism, which I’ll call theology legalism and moral legalism.

* Theological legalism says that we are justified by our works. Jesus teaches obedience, and so do the various epistles. So requiring obedience is not legalism. It is requiring obedience independent of the faith on which it is based that is legalism, or saying that we can be justified by having our works be sufficiently perfect.

* Moral legalism, however, can exist even in people who understand perfectly that justification is by faith. It’s defining obedience by rules that can’t be supported by Scripture. The discussion over using wine is an example. People who advocate prohibition are not necessarily theological legalists.

It's worth distinguishing these, to avoid making accusations against people that are false.

From Paul's teaching in Galations, I gather a perspective that includes both of your examples.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJB.

Jews were influencing the Church to abide in both,a theological belief that Christ made the sacarfice that paid for the sin.

The Jews as well we're teaching that Christians must still abide in the Law of Moses to earn the gift.

Galatians is considered the [freedom epistle] due to Paul's passionate teaching on the Great gift of Salvation.

Being a spiritual gift by Grace through faith,no man could ever be sanctified by the works of the Law again.

This is still going on today, men form opinions on their hearts desire then attempt to justify themselves by quoting from Leviticus etc.

Most of the time their teaching is still flawed, because their references are even out of the context of the Law of Moses.

 

[now faith]

little gods...Hmmm i avoid the terminology .. we know the word means spirit .. we don't become "little spirits" as christians . we are already spirits . but we are made alive again in Him ..
the english word "god" holds far to much connotation of something far more and so when it is used in that context it grossly (whether intentionally of not let God judge) misrepresents us .
we are spirits and God is the creator the most High one true living and greatest Spirit who has no beginning and no end and who has no greater .

-and hey there nowfaith ... hows things

Well Hello my Brother,good to see you again.

It is the right thing to do to avoid terminology that is easily mistaken for being equal to God.

Yet it is no accident that God made man in his image,and he said let us make man, the US is plural Father, Son, Holy Ghost.

We are as well Spiritual beings,Being brought to the presence of God,through his Son, and as we live on earth we are led By The Holy Spirit.

We are as well 3 parts Body ,Soul and Spirit.


Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
KJB

 

[Job8]

Here's a definition I came across. What do you think?
Legalism is seeking to achieve forgiveness from God and acceptance by God through obedience to God .

"...through obedience to God by the works of the Law of Moses, while trying to improve that Law with the doctrines of men".

Unfortunately, today's Christianity slaps the label of Legalism on anything which does not suit free-wheeling "Christianity". To hold Christians to any kind of standard is falsely deemed Legalism.

 

[Soyeong]

Being a spiritual gift by Grace through faith,no man could ever be sanctified by the works of the Law again.

This is still going on today, men form opinions on their hearts desire then attempt to justify themselves by quoting from Leviticus etc.

Most of the time their teaching is still flawed, because their references are even out of the context of the Law of Moses.

Saying that we should obey the law is very different from saying that we should obey the law in order to become justified. Obedience to God's law is not about justification, but about sanctification.

Romans 6:15-19 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

 

[JM]

"...through obedience to God by the works of the Law of Moses, while trying to improve that Law with the doctrines of men".

Unfortunately, today's Christianity slaps the label of Legalism on anything which does not suit free-wheeling "Christianity". To hold Christians to any kind of standard is falsely deemed Legalism.

Job8, in a way I agree. I think Legalism is applied to pietistic living. Pietism will become Legalism if you're personal rules for Christian living are used to judge other believers. For example, a Christian may avoid the use of wine, believing in his own mind, that avoidance may help him live a better Christian life. Fine. It becomes Legalism if that rule is then applied to all born again believers as a mark of maturity, a gage for their salvation, etc.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Goodbook]

I would say legalism is holding to the 635 laws and statues of moses...anyone of them, as commandments rather than the two greatest commandments that Jesus gave us to follow, which fufills all 635.

 

[Soyeong]

I would say legalism is holding to the 635 laws and statues of moses...anyone of them, as commandments rather than the two greatest commandments that Jesus gave us to follow, which fufills all 635.

God did not give the Law to Moses because He thought that he could use a legalistic burden, but rather it was intended to be a delight to keep, as the Psalmists understood (See Psalms 1:1-2 or Psalms 119 for example). It was common to ask a rabbi what they thought was the most important commandment because it helped someone to quickly understand their yoke. It was about showing a full understanding of the law by getting at its essence, not about saying that only the most important commands should be obeyed while the rest should be ignored. Jesus said that the rest of the laws hang on the two greatest commands, or in other words, that the rest of the commands are examples that paint a picture of what it looks like to obey those two. And for what it's worth, it's 613 laws.