Leftist Policy is Motivated by a Secular Worldview

[tdidymas]

But like any false prophet it looks good on the outside but is full of corruption and hate on the inside which is what we are not experiencing with internal and external conflicts and problems that are undermining nations and peoples hopes.

True, and it reminds me of the words of Peter, "promising freedom when they themselves are slaves of corruption."

 

[tdidymas]

This election is not about being "leftist" or "rightist".

The more important issue is that Trump has shown open disregard
for the fair rule of law in America.

And the Democratic candidate, and a large number of the law abiding
and conservative Republicans, are supporting the rule of law in
America.

This is important for Christians in America, because we first of all,
need the fair rule of law, for "freedom of religion".

Trump has 34 felony convictions, and is not a candidate who can
represent either the fair rule of law in America, or Christian values.

When the law is misused to silence political opponents, it's called "weaponization". Those "felony convictions" are not a valid excuse for supporting the anti-christian secularism of those now in political power. The party who is openly and blatantly for the murder of preborn children for convenience, as well as enabling the moral corruption of children is the party that must be voted out of office. It says in Ecc. 10 "the heart of the wise is inclined toward the right, but the heart of fools to the left." I think it's an appropriate application of this verse. When the left is ignorant, anti-christian, immoral, rebellious toward the constitution, hating the nation, etc. then the election must be about voting them out of power. It's a political war as much as it is a cultural and ideological war.

 

[lifepsyop]

No one should vote for a Democrat because they are pro-choice, just as no one should vote for a Republican because he is anti-democracy, destructive to the future of our planet, callously indifferent to the plight of immigrants and even political refugees like the Haitians, callously indifferent to the poor, the uninsured, the homeless, etc., etc.

I remember just a few weeks ago watching an interview with a homeless mother and her little daughter in Ohio, saying they could not find help because resources were being swamped by a recent mass influx of migrants into their small town.

One of the most actively hostile actions you could take against the poor and homeless people living in the USA is to support leftist/regime policies of mass third-world immigration.... forcing the native poor and needy to compete for resources against millions of foreigners.

There is something truly evil about that... and then to dress it up as love and charity for the world...

If one votes for Democrats despite their pro-choice policies, or vote for Republicans despite their anti-climate, anti-democracy, anti-immigration, anti-social safety net programs, etc. his/her conscience should be clear.

Clear as mud.

 

[o_mlly]

The USCCB and Pope Francis have always left room for conscience ...

No. There is no room for an uninformed conscience. You really need to read your catechism:

II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE​

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. ... The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.​

​

1785 We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.​

​

1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.​

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The link below is an enlightening expose' on leftist motivations. A secular worldview is essentially humanist in origin, which is non-Christian. The Christian who believes in Biblical truth believes in the doctrine of Original Sin (that every person has a sinful nature).

How Do You Deal with Painful Truths? Left vs. Right #4 | PragerU

Explore how the Left and Right view the world: one sees reality, the other, an idealized vision.

www.prageru.com

Actually, I'd say that both Leftist and Rightist leanings come out of "secular" rather than Christian motivations.

Both sides are implicated in spiritual failure, not just the Left.

 

[trophy33]

When the law is misused to silence political opponents, it's called "weaponization". Those "felony convictions" are not a valid excuse for supporting the anti-christian secularism of those now in political power. The party who is openly and blatantly for the murder of preborn children for convenience, as well as enabling the moral corruption of children is the party that must be voted out of office. It says in Ecc. 10 "the heart of the wise is inclined toward the right, but the heart of fools to the left." I think it's an appropriate application of this verse. When the left is ignorant, anti-christian, immoral, rebellious toward the constitution, hating the nation, etc. then the election must be about voting them out of power. It's a political war as much as it is a cultural and ideological war.

Aside from philosophical, moral or nationalistic reasons, why do you make pro-abortion stance to be specifically the anti-christian issue? Why not also anti-muslim issue, for example? Neither Bible nor any historical Christian creed claims anything about abortions or that its a main issue for Christians to focus on politically.

Both secularism or humanism can be pro or anti-abortion, depending on whether they focus rather on the mother or on the fetus/future child. Which can change depending on the cultural context, I suppose. In poor, underpopulated cultures, the focus on the children will be more prevalent, in developed and overpopulated cities or countries, the focus will be more on the adult.

 

[tdidymas]

Actually, I'd say that both Leftist and Rightist leanings come out of "secular" rather than Christian motivations.

Both sides are implicated in spiritual failure, not just the Left.

Indeed both sides fall short of God's glory. It does not justify the enablement of convenience abortions and abject immorality. The Leftist narrative follows Marxism which is by nature anti-Christian, and socialism is contrary to the founding fathers' view of the constitution. The Marxist viewpoint, which is leftist, is essentially the "oppressed vs. oppressor" narrative. Although "rightist" is not always right, it is certainly more right than the leftist agenda.

 

[RDKirk]

Indeed both sides fall short of God's glory. It does not justify the enablement of convenience abortions and abject immorality. The Leftist narrative follows Marxism which is by nature anti-Christian, and socialism is contrary to the founding fathers' view of the constitution. The Marxist viewpoint, which is leftist, is essentially the "oppressed vs. oppressor" narrative. Although "rightist" is not always right, it is certainly more right than the leftist agenda.

That's true.

But Trumpism is fascism just as clearly as the Harris position is Marxism, and fascism is also anti-Christian.

I can understand the desire to find and lock on to a single litmus test...it makes choice so much easier and reduces the amount of thinking necessary for that choice.

But that urge in itself is a component of fascism, when people follow an Inspired Leader who has already said he's not going to do what they want him to do.

 

[tdidymas]

Aside from philosophical, moral or nationalistic reasons, why do you make pro-abortion stance to be specifically the anti-christian issue? Why not also anti-muslim issue, for example? Neither Bible nor any historical Christian creed claims anything about abortions or that its a main issue for Christians to focus on politically.

Both secularism or humanism can be pro or anti-abortion, depending on whether they focus rather on the mother or on the fetus/future child. Which can change depending on the cultural context, I suppose. In poor, underpopulated cultures, the focus on the children will be more prevalent, in developed and overpopulated cities or countries, the focus will be more on the adult.

Sounds to me like leftist rhetoric, as I disagree with it:
1. The U.S. was founded by Christians, not Muslims nor Atheists.
2. Abortion should definitely be an issue for any and all Christians.
3. "Fetus/future child" is an attempt at denying that a child in the womb is a child, and that killing it for some reason of convenience is murder. Before Jesus was born, Mary was "with child," so a Biblical fetus is a child.
4. The "underpopulated"/"overpopulated" idea is essentially atheistic, which assumes that humans are nothing more than intelligent animals.
I believe your suppositions are incorrect.

 

[Fantine]

A culture of life is a culture of caring.

And once again I go to the "thou shalt and thou shalt not" types of Christianity.

While conservatives embrace the punitive ideal in ending abortion and other socially conservative areas of concern.

Liberals embrace the holistic ideal of providing an environment that reduces income inequality and help for parents.

Let's look at Tim Walz' state, Minnesota. Since he has been governor, feeding children, establishing parental leave, and being a very popular pro-family, pro-middle class leader, abortions have decreased 50%--despite no changes in the law (and despite some of those abortions coming from out of staters.)

State Health Data Reveals Who Is Having Abortions In Minnesota

In the meantime, my state has an abortion ban, and our queen-of-mean governor still manages to punish mothers who choose life. Shame on her!

Instead of helping women who choose life, she ended Medicaid benefits for them after 60 days--even though the federal government was paying 100% of their Medicaid care, and despite the fact that we have the highest maternal death rate in the country. Was she afraid they might get prescriptions for birth control? Doesn't she realize young mothers might be dealing with post partum depression and several physical dangers?

Let's stop abortion by paying attention to the thou shalts conservatives are not very good at doing--not punitive laws.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Indeed both sides fall short of God's glory. It does not justify the enablement of convenience abortions and abject immorality. The Leftist narrative follows Marxism which is by nature anti-Christian, and socialism is contrary to the founding fathers' view of the constitution. The Marxist viewpoint, which is leftist, is essentially the "oppressed vs. oppressor" narrative. Although "rightist" is not always right, it is certainly more right than the leftist agenda.

Right. The Left borrows and adopts from Marxist principles. I get that. But this doesn't mean that the Right borrows and adopts only, or even accurately, the principles of Christ and His Apostles. .................................. we need to begin to recognize this on various levels.

So, politics, even politics in the U.S. isn't, and never really has been, an either/or, right or wrong decision. We have two wrongs from which to choose. Two wrongs are not acceptable positions from which Christians should be making important political decisions. It also CAN NOT be said that the issue of abortion is "THE" most important issue. It is destructive, but the MOST IMPORTANT issues are those that underlie and drive the sinful outcomes we see. It's THOSE issues that are most important.

And no................"the Right" is not more right than the Left. Each side as they are at the moment chooses to select out and and reconstrue those ethical principles they each think have priority, and when they do so, they also denature those ethical principles.

I don't buy this, Left VS. Right pseudo-choice.

 

[Fantine]

Your statement might be said by either side of the fence. Where do you stand? Be specific about your point. What exactly do you mean to say about the specific issues at hand? Are you objecting to the OP or supporting it? Who are you saying are "Christians" (in quotes) - I presume you mean false Christians who are play-acting at being Christians or who claim to be Christian but are hypocrites. In order for someone to repent and come back to Jesus, they must belong to Jesus in the first place.

Not being a fundamentalist doesn't mean that Christians are "play acting at being Christian."

I prefer the non-fundamentalist approach that connects faith to life today and looks at faith and the Bible in the context of all the truths and information mankind has discovered as they have evolved and grown--as all species do--because God did not create us to be stagnant. I imagine God rejoicing at our excitement and achievements as we conquer so many of the diseases and challenges in our world and as we learn so much more about the "man in the sky with a long beard" and that with each insight He becomes even more transcendent and miraculous.

And because science (e.g. evolution) is truth, God has led us to realize that the authors of the Bible wrote from their worldview with their limited knowledge, and that adjusting a 7 day creation to scientific truth makes God's creation even more--not less--miraculous.

 

[trophy33]

Sounds to me like leftist rhetoric, as I disagree with it:
1. The U.S. was founded by Christians, not Muslims nor Atheists.
2. Abortion should definitely be an issue for any and all Christians.
3. "Fetus/future child" is an attempt at denying that a child in the womb is a child, and that killing it for some reason of convenience is murder. Before Jesus was born, Mary was "with child," so a Biblical fetus is a child.
4. The "underpopulated"/"overpopulated" idea is essentially atheistic, which assumes that humans are nothing more than intelligent animals.
I believe your suppositions are incorrect.

Yes, you believe my suppositions are incorrect. However, neither Bible nor Christian creeds make any faith statements about it.

 

[Canuckster]

You've got it right, RD. Notice any people with those planks in their eyes Jesus talked about?

Imagine telling Americans in the late 18th century, that a party would eventually be elected to office whose main platform is the right to continue murdering one million American babies a year, and many Christians will vote for them and call others who are against them, “people with those planks in their eyes Jesus talked about”.

 

[Fantine]

Saving democracy is their main platform.

 

[RDKirk]

Imagine telling Americans in the late 18th century, that a party would eventually be elected to office whose main platform is the right to continue murdering one million American babies a year, and many Christians will vote for them and call others who are against them, “people with those planks in their eyes Jesus talked about”.

Well, those so-called Christians were encouraging and practicing manstealing, which is not a lesser sin in Jesus' eyes. And they even admitted so...while still doing it.

 

[RileyG]

Well, those so-called Christians were encouraging and practicing manstealing, which is not a lesser sin in Jesus' eyes. And they even admitted so...while still doing it.

They’re both wrong, two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[RDKirk]

They’re both wrong, two wrongs don’t make a right.

Correct. Two wrongs are two wrongs. But it does indicate the American government was never a Godly government. It's been unGodly all along, it didn't just become unGodly in the last few decades.

 

[Fervent]

Which candidate is supposed to be the one on the right? Neither one of them really supports important things like the constitution and the rule of law, limiting government, reducing the power of the executive, and other truly conservative positions. We haven't had a truly conservative presidential candidate since Eisenhower. It's far more concerning to me when people try to baptize their politics than that any particular candidate or party isn't Christian. Seems to me that is blatant syncretism.

 

[tdidymas]

That's true.

But Trumpism is fascism just as clearly as the Harris position is Marxism, and fascism is also anti-Christian.

I disagree. All Trump does is exaggerate talking points, no fascism about it. The fascists act much like the Nazi Brown Shirts who were thugs and bullies that threatened people with violence, which the leftist Antifa does. Trump has never done that, nor has he ever weaponized the legal system against his opponents like the Biden administration has done. Anyone who claims that the Nationalist extremists who support Trump makes him a fascist don't know what they are talking about. The real fascists are those socialists who believe what Giovanni Gentile taught, which the leftists including Harris espouse, namely bigger government and controlling government, which is the opposite of what the founding fathers established in the constitution. The leftists can taste power and they are certainly hungry for it.

I can understand the desire to find and lock on to a single litmus test...it makes choice so much easier and reduces the amount of thinking necessary for that choice.

A sad commentary for a Christian trying to avoid the stigma of child murder. When Christians stop talking about it, that means their conscience is working against their agenda.

But that urge in itself is a component of fascism, when people follow an Inspired Leader who has already said he's not going to do what they want him to do.

You're wrong about this, unless you're talking about Harris (not). Actually, fascists claim to be the leaders and rely on peoples' ignorance to support them, and really do believe that people are ignorant, and they work to keep them ignorant. It's why they oppose free speech (they call it "misinformation" when it doesn't support their agenda), and they oppose adequate education (the schools run by the NEA get worse every year).

No, when you talk about fascism, you need to look in the mirror at your own party.