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Left Behind Controversy

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by LilyLamb, Feb 10, 2001.

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  1. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

    Josephus, that is the problem. No one here considers it "canon" and yet there are still a great many who do. While we know it is fiction, it is portrayed as a Christian book. But it does not line up with Scripture. That is a problem for those that consider those books to be relied upon when Scripture is not.

    That is the issue.
  2. LilyLamb

    LilyLamb Guest

    Josephus ... what onesheep said is true - too many at the LB site take this series too seriously and that is why I have aggressively ;) pursued this - if you read the LB thread on this topic and other topics like it {which is linked in the first post of this thread} you will see how some have taken this series to such extremes that they defend the authors over scripture, including the author himself {note how he keeps saying that he has not gone "apostate" on us yet}. He honestly believes his series to be scripturally accurate. That concerns me more than anything.
  3. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    I admit that after reading the first few books, and going to the Left Behind message boards, I was beginning to take what was going on in the books VERY seriously. But then there was a point where I told myself to STOP and realize that Left Behind was a fictional series, and while there was Bible research done to write the books, it wasn't exactly every single thing that would happen. And I was able to enjoy The Mark more once I read it. :)
  4. Wearynot

    Wearynot Active Member

    As long as the writers stick close to scripture, I'll continue to read the series. But once they veer too sharply from scripture, I'm putting the books down.
  5. Vessel of Mercy

    Vessel of Mercy Guest

    To Lilylamb,
    I am so relieved to have found this forum and this thread. Please do not think you are alone with your concerns about the doctrines in the Left Behind series. The Lord has prompted my husband and I to read, discuss, pray, and then write doctrinal commentaries-mostly about salvation- on all of the books. I don't know about Chang yet because I'm still reading the first book. I have plenty to write about with the first book, and now that I've seen this thread I'm so glad that others are not throwing away their Bibles because of this popular series.

    May I please share something very important here about Tim LaHaye's Prophecy Study Bible: King James and also some things I observed at the official Left Behind website?

    I'm pasting a letter God gave me to send to a few people he laid on my heart to do so.

    This letter was a followup to an earlier letter where I wrote the Tim LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible: King James has a hexagram on the front cover.

    Dear Concerned Christian:

    I've received some mail about my statements concerning the marking on
    the Tim LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible: King James. Some have thought that
    I am in error and that the marking is not a hexagram, but merely the
    Star of David.

    The ENCIRCLED or RINGED hexagram is the magical symbol, and the hexagram
    standing alone is the "Star of David" not a symbol used for magic. The
    one on the Tim LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible: King James has a ring around
    it, even though the Star of David does not. The Jewish people-NOT the
    Kabbalistic Jews who are occultists-would certainly not appreciate the
    Star of David symbol they use to be encircled and thus PERVERTED.

    I did a little searching on the net and I'd like to leave some links for
    those interested in looking at the Star of David and then looking at the
    ringed "Star of David" which is a hexagram and used for magical

    First, I should define "magical purposes." Actually the spelling
    occultists use is magickal which differentiates magic done by demonic
    power from magic meaning mere sleight-of-hand. But I will just use the
    plain "magic" spelling. Magic is the movement of natural energies to
    create needed change. These "natural energies" are none other than
    demon spirits and the occultist needs symbols to get them to perform the
    supernatural change in this physical world.

    One of the earliest Jewish symbol is the menorah. You can see that here:

    Then, later on, this symbol was adopted:
    This is the "Star of David" and I don't have a problem with it.

    Now let's look at something VERY interesting. If you go here
    www.menorah.org/starofdavid.html you will see at the top of the
    page the PERVERSION of the "Star of David" into a hexagram because it is
    ENCIRCLED. Interestingly at the bottom of the page it has no circle and
    is merely the "Star of David." The article on this page is interesting
    in that it discusses the hexagram and its magical uses: "Rather, all
    evidence suggests that the early use of the hexagram was limited to
    "practical Kabbalah," that is, Jewish magic, probably dating back to the
    6th century C.E."

    The encircling of the hexagram is what gives it its magical (demonic)
    use; it does not have this magical use without the circle. Why? Because
    the CIRCLE or RING around the hexagram turns it into a "demon trap"
    which the demons (once they are called) remain within to do their
    assignment in the life of the one posessing the object with the hex on

    David Bay, of CuttingEdge minisries, wrote of the hexagram's use:
    "Notice the Hexagram on which Satan's altar is resting. Since this
    hexagram is surrounded by a circle, it becomes a Demon Trap, which we
    now know is THE most powerful tool possible to conjure up a demon so
    that he can be forced to do that which the Witch wants him to do." This
    was taken from his article entitled: "I, WITCH" NEW WORLD ORDER
    ORGANIZATION" at: www.cuttingedge.org/news/...iwitch.htm

    Satan's altar does not need to be resting on top of a hexagram in order
    for it to be used as a "demon trap." These hexagram symbols have been
    used for centuries to put curses on many objects and people.

    It is definite there is not one, but five "demon traps" on the Tim
    LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible, and one of the "demon traps" is on a title
    page of sorts where there is a "Presented To" section with a line for
    the person to write their name or the name of the person they are giving
    the bible to. When the person's name is written here, this activates an
    additonal curse.

    I have not yet shared this, but I think the Lord would have me to
    mention this now:

    There are some disturbing facts about the "Left Behind" website that I
    visited recently. The book, Desecration is due to be released, yes
    PLANNED to be released on Oct. 30, 2001. This information can be found
    at: www.leftbehind.com/faqs_gen.html

    Here's what they wrote about it: "Q: When is the next book in the Series
    coming out? A: Desecration, the 9th book in the Series, will be in
    stores on October 30, 2001."

    The 9TH BOOK! Released on Oct. 30th so it will be selling on the 31ST!
    We all know about Halloween and how it is the highest Satanic "holy day"
    of the year, but what is the significance of the number 9?

    Texe Marrs wrote concerning this: "Satanists take delight in the number
    nine for a couple of reasons. First, Satanists enjoy reversing,
    mirroring and inverting symbols, letters and numbers. When you turn the
    number "9" upside down you get "6" which makes up the number of the
    Beast (666) as revealed in Revelation 13:18 in the Bible. Second,
    Satanists take perverse pleasure in commemorating the death of Christ
    and the death of Christ is associated with the number nine. Mark 15:
    34-37 reveals that Christ spoke his last words on the Cross of
    Calvary at the ninth hour and "gave up the ghost and died)." See the
    article, "Occult Numerology" at: logosresourcepages.org/nine.html

    And all this written on a BLACK page with ORANGE letters! This is the
    appearance of evil and biblically must be abstained from: " Abstain from
    all appearance of evil."-1 Thess. 5:22

    It's very disturbing to me that this person promoting the
    pre-tribulation rapture so strongly has satanic markings on his
    end-fiction series, Left Behind (Did you know he raptured the Pope and
    Mother Theresa?) and on his Prophecy Study Bible.

    Harry R. Miller wrote: "When a wolf puts on sheep's clothing and appears
    before God's saints as one of them, it is then time for those who are
    faithful to IDENTIFY THE WOLF. Those who know the wolf and keep silent
    are as guilty as the enemy himself; they become partakers of his
    sins by hiding the identity of the imposter."

    This quote has helped me to keep in perspective WHY I am writing these
    letters. The Lord wants to protect his people and help them prepare for
    his true coming...as a bride ready for Him, without
    spot or wrinkle.

    I trust the Lord will help you to look into this and to see what He is
    showing you regarding this.


    Gary and Lisa

    Lilylamb, if you or anyone reading this thread would like to read my comments on the doctrinal content of the Left Behind series, please bookmark my discussion website and I'll be announcing when the articles are done.



    Lisa-a vessel of mercy
  6. Wearynot

    Wearynot Active Member

    Lisa, I'd be interested in knowing where you got that "I Witch" web page. I mean other than the solitary link you provided. Who authored that page?
  7. postrib

    postrib Guest


    Are you implying that LaHaye is a secret Satanist? If so, that's a pretty strong accusation, especially considering that the covers and title pages and graphic doodles of many major books aren't designed by the authors but by special graphic designers hired by the publishers. The authors and publishers, and even the graphic designers themselves, may not have been aware of the possible implications of the graphics, which you are right to point out.

    Similarly, though I believe Satan will use the entire pre-trib doctrinal base of the Left Behind series against Christians in the tribulation, this doesn't mean that the authors or pre-tribbers must be Satanists themselves.

    Knowing the rapture's true timing is important because if some Christians believe with all their heart that Jesus has promised them a pre-trib rapture, couldn't "many be offended" (Matthew 24:9-12, compare Matthew 13:20-21) when it doesn't happen?

    "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith" (1 Timothy 4:1), and this departure from the faith (the falling away or apostasy) will happen before Jesus comes to rapture us (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

    I believe Jesus told us everything beforehand for a good reason, so that we would not be deceived and would not lose faith (Mark 13:23, Hosea 4:6). I believe the pre-trib doctrine is setting the church up for great disappointment and confusion and the falling away from the faith (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:3).

    We all must begin to face and get free of any fear of the tribulation and death (Revelation 2:10, 21:7-8; 1 Peter 4:12-13, Hebrews 2:15, Luke 12:4, Philippians 1:21-23).

    I personally believe that pre-trib prophets are giving the people what they want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4), instead of what they need to hear (Mark 13:23), and that false prophets that teach God's people false hopes will be held accountable, as in the days of old (Jeremiah 14:13-15, Ezekiel 13:2-16).

    Satan could use the failure of the pre-trib rapture to happen as a great weapon against Christians who believe Jesus had promised them a pre-trib rapture.

    He could say something like: "Jesus promised you that he would whisk you away before the tribulation started, but did he keep his word? No. Just like he kicked poor Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden to keep them from eating the tree of life and living forever (read it for yourself in Genesis 3:22-23), so even now he doesn't want the best for you; he just wants you and your poor baby to starve to death and suffer for his amusement! You don't believe me? Read it for yourself in Job 9:22-23 and Proverbs 1:26. But look here, I'm not laughing at you, I'm offering you and your baby food to eat, because I love you. All you need to do is take this little mark on your hand and worship me and my man here for a little bit and we'll take perfect care of you; and once we're all united we'll storm heaven together and I'll let you eat of the tree of life and live forever and do as you please."

    No doubt some Christians could fall for this line, for haven't many already fallen for what I believe is a false gospel which says Jesus saved us from the tribulation?

    May the Lord bless you.

  8. carma

    carma Guest


    Would you say that someone that believes this has their faith in Jesus Christ?
  9. Vessel of Mercy

    Vessel of Mercy Guest

  10. Vessel of Mercy

    Vessel of Mercy Guest

    Hello Posttrib,
    Do you know its because of your discussion board links that I've been posting a bit lately at Rapture Ready and now here? I think your articles have good insight, and I totally agree that many will be offended in Christ if things don't go the way the teachers say they will go.

    The Lord has commanded Gary and I to get out the information he's led us to discover concering the markings on LaHaye's work. We will continue to do so, and not just LaHaye, but anyone in Christendom (that God leads us to) who is marking or teaching what is contrary to the true doctrines of the Holy Bible. God is brooding over his people with a holy jealousy, and there are some with hearts bowed towards him who are willing to heed the warnings he is giving them so they will not fall into Satan's carefully planned snares for the church.

    A Christian has every right to say "NO" to the publisher's decisions towards marking their work in a Satanic fashion. If they don't get published, so be it. That's the pilgrim way.

    Accusations are not necessary; observations are. The doctrinal content of the books is potentially destructive towards the believer, and it needs to be exposed.

    Since when does God overtake a believer's will? Satan does everything in his power (by using curses, spells, etc.) to hold a person's will in bondage, but this is NOT God's way!

    I happen to have the book, The Mark at home, and just thumbed through it because of this thread and the concern it has stirred. There is a discussion forum post in the book that teaches the reader that a believer will be UNABLE, yes, not have posession of his will, to take the mark of the beast. Here's the quote: from page 339 of the book, The Mark. (captials are mine)

    I have good news for you that I have already admitted is difficult to understand, even for me, who has been called to shepherd you and exposit the Word of God for you. The Bible tells us that once one is either sealed by God as a believer or accepts the mark of loyalty to Antichrist, this is a once-and-for-all choice. In other words, if you have decided for Christ and the seal of God is evident on your forehead, you CANNOT change your mind!

    That tells me that somehow, when we face the ultimate test, God miraculously overcomes our evil, selfish flesh and gives us the grace and courage to make the right decision in spite of ourselves. My interpretation of this is that we will be UNABLE to deny Jesus, UNABLE to even choose the mark that would temporarily save our lives.-end quote

    This is completely against everything in the word of God concerning a believer and their capacity to make decisions in their walk with God. This also gives believers a false hope that God will all-of-a-sudden violate their will and make it impossible for them to deny Christ with this mark. That is NOT how the Most High God of the Bible deals with his saints, but can you guess which god deals with his followers by supernaturally manipulating their will?

    I know every book must be purchased now and poured over for doctrinal content. I am so glad that others have been concerned as well and are working to expose the dangerous teachings.


    Lisa-a vessel of mercy
  11. carma

    carma Guest

    Ok, a couple of questions for you Lisa.

    And now I ask you also, would you say that person has their faith 100% in Jesus Christ?

    Who have you been called to do this for?
  12. carma

    carma Guest

    :::carma looks in the mirror:::

    Nope, I'm not invisible!!!

    Either or both of you two gonna answer my questions?
  13. Vessel of Mercy

    Vessel of Mercy Guest

    I can anwer your first question to me, but not the second, because it is based upon the second quote of which I did not make.

    "And now I ask you also, would you say that person has their faith 100% in Jesus Christ?"

    My answer: they would have their faith 100% in what they are TAUGHT are the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ, and as such their faith could be devastated at the thought that Christ's promises weren't true. Christ's promises ARE 100% true, every one of them. The promises that are not true are the promises false teachers are SAYING the Lord Jesus Christ has promised.

    I'm curious if you are defending fictionalizing Bible doctrine...not merely fictionalizing an end-time scenario but fictionalizing Bible doctrine, ESPECIALLY as it pertains to salvation and the promises of God?


    Lisa-a vessel of mercy
  14. carma

    carma Guest

    Then someone that has faith in what they are taught, does not have their faith in Jesus Christ.

    I don't see that someone that has faith in teaching and not Christ is saved in the first place.

    Who made that 2nd comment?

    I'm not defending fictional anything. I am speaking against the fictional statements such as "if the pre-trib rapture does not happen, pre-tribber will do all kinds of damnable things".

    That is simply not true. If a person has their faith in Jesus Christ, they belong to Him and scripture tells us that we are His sheep and we will NOT listen to the voice of the stranger, because we know His voice.
  15. LilyLamb

    LilyLamb Guest

    Lisa - you had my full attention up until your comment ...

    I have major issues with the LB series ... namely the idea that someone who has heard and rejected the gospel message can have a second chance after the rapture ... I do not feel this is biblical. And ... the issue of whether or not a true believer can have the mark of the beast and still be saved. The major argument for Chang is that he was "forced" to receive the mark against his will but since the scriptures state that all will be "forced" that is a moot point.

    However, I also have MAJOR issues with anyone who makes off-hand remarks about a CHRISTIAN religion like the Catholics.

    So ... we agree that there are some concerns regarding the LB series ... but I know nothing about the prophecy Bible which you mentioned so I can't comment on that.

    However I do thank you for sharing your insights - you have made me aware of some things that I want to look into further.
  16. carma

    carma Guest


    I knew that you or onesheep were gonna catch that.

  17. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

    :) LilyLamb is quicker than I am. ;)
  18. Vessel of Mercy

    Vessel of Mercy Guest

    Hello Lilylamb and others,

    To those who disagree with my statment, "Did you know he raptured the Pope and Mother Theresa?" I wanted to provide an explanation for my statement. Ironically, the original letter (this one was added to as I learned more) about my discovery of the hexagram on the Tim LaHaye Prophecy Study Bible was sent to a pro-Catholic discussion board moderated by two Catholics.

    The original letter was entitled, "Satanic Markings on Protestantism" because I had written earlier about the inverted cross on the Pope's chair -when he was in Israel- and the twisted cross he carries in his hand, (both of these are occultic symbols and this is documentable, which they asked me to do and I complied.) and I had said I would get back with some satanic markings on Protestantism-of which there are indeed many. My point, of which I believe they respected, was to expose the ways Satan has infiltrated every denomination and how we must trust the clear teachings of the Holy Bible ONLY.

    Not to go way off-topic, I just wanted to let you know there is good reason for my remarks of disbelief concerning the pope and Mother Theresa being raptured.

    The pope has ALREADY taken a mark that is most definitely not of the God of the Holy Bible. You can learn of this by reading these three articles from David Bay's website: www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1161.cfm

    David Bay's contention that the Pope is the False Prophet is not the point of posting these links, and I don't have an opinion on who the false prophet is at this point. I just wanted to let you know he "received a pagan Shiva mark on his forehead by a Shiva
    priestess when he was on a trip to India."

    It's interesting that Mother Theresa's quote (from Time magazine I believe) which I still need to locate, had to do with the Hindu faith and it corresponding somehow to the Christian faith. I will get that quote and get back to this board with it.


    Lisa-a vessel of mercy
  19. onesheep

    onesheep Sheep that looks like Bob

    Vessel of Mercy, the site in your links is an anti-Catholic site so their credibility on the Catholic issue is entirely suspect. The fact that the gentlemen refers to Catholicism as a cult shows that he does not have an understanding of Catholicism.

    The upside down cross is the Cross of Peter. Peter was crucified on a cross upside down and Catholics consider the Pope to be a direct line to Peter. The fact that someone took it and made it something else does not change what it stands for, the crucifixion of Peter.
  20. carma

    carma Guest

    I wasn't aware that the mark of the beast is out for grabs yet.

    I'm surprised that David Bay thinks so, since the mark is not brought about until the mid point of the trib and David Bay is a pre-trib believer.
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