Leaving salvation

[FreeGrace2]

Very interesting -- thanks.
Got some food for thought here.

Verse 4
"tasted the heavenly gift"
(does not say received)
that would be more convincing for me

The word "tasted" is the exact same word used in Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

iow, Jesus fully experienced death for everyone. So in Heb 6, those who "tasted the heavenly gift" experienced it fully.

The problem is in assuming to "fall away" means leaving salvation.

That is virtually impossible, for Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

So, if one could actually leave salvation and perish, Jesus either
1. lied, or
2. was just kidding!!!!!

I reject either conclusion. So it's impossible for anyone to leave salvation and perish.

Jesus was clear about that being an impossibility.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Meeting with our Pastor Wednesday for coffee so we can discuss this in depth.

Thanks for the topic I'm enjoying it a lot. Turns out my pastor did a sermon on Hebrews chapter 6.

I listened to the one you posted and the one below, getting ready for Wednesday.

Thanks Bob

Here is the sermon: Hebrews 6 Looking Unto Jesus with Abraham the Man of Faith

 

[createdtoworship]

Meeting with our Pastor Wednesday for coffee so we can discuss this in depth.

Thanks for the topic I'm enjoying it a lot. Turns out my pastor did a sermon on Hebrews chapter 6.

I listened to the one you posted and the one below, getting ready for Wednesday.

Thanks Bob

Here is the sermon: Hebrews 6 Looking Unto Jesus with Abraham the Man of Faith

OK will read. Thanks for being objective.

 

[createdtoworship]

I agree that God never forces an unsaved, never-been-saved person to be saved. I agree that He doesn't alter the created make-up or functioning of a person's God-given free will.

But where are you getting the idea that a saved person ever wants to not be saved anymore? I don't think such a creature exists. I understand that the saved person's unredeemed flesh doesn't want to be saved; but it never has been saved and it never will be saved.


Are you saying that "repent of idolatry" is something that an unsaved person has to do in order to become saved?


If the object of this person's faith is "the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior" and what they're repenting from is "the Lord Jesus Christ as NOT their personal Savior"; then having this faith without this repentance could never happen because it's self-contradictory.

So regarding your statement I have to ask:
What is the object of the person's faith?
What are they not repenting from?
When you use the word "apostasy", what are they falling away from?

Sin decieve us and makes us unable to.repent in ourselves heb 6, thus we become dull and start doubting theological concepts, then start doubt soteriological concepts then we commit apostacy. Then we no longer want the salvation we once had, it's all laid out in hebrews

 

[createdtoworship]

Meeting with our Pastor Wednesday for coffee so we can discuss this in depth.

Thanks for the topic I'm enjoying it a lot. Turns out my pastor did a sermon on Hebrews chapter 6.

I listened to the one you posted and the one below, getting ready for Wednesday.

Thanks Bob

Here is the sermon: Hebrews 6 Looking Unto Jesus with Abraham the Man of Faith

Good teacher bUT believes in perseverance of the saints contrary to what heb 6 says.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Good teacher bUT believes in perseverance of the saints contrary to what heb 6 says.

Possibly if the saint does not persevere then they never really were born again could have been a false conversion?

Parable of the seed comes to mind.

M-Bob

 

[createdtoworship]

Possibly if the saint does not persevere then they never really were born again could have been a false conversion?

Parable of the seed comes to mind.

M-Bob

Nope, it would be like a seed that germinated, then the whole plant got taken by the birds of the air.

 

[sdowney717]

People who are born of God overcome the world by their faith and enter into the promises of God.
They are preserved by God.
They do not lose their salvation.
JudeNew King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Mountainmanbob]

People who are born of God overcome the world by their faith and enter into the promises of God.
They are preserved by God.
They do not lose their salvation.
JudeNew King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting to the Called
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,

To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.

1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

30 I and My Father are one.”

That all says it very well to me.
Thank you,
M-Bob

 

[sdowney717]

These false believers departed the faith so they were apostates, they were antichrists.
Compare Hebrews 6 to 1 John 2
The similarities are obvious, compare truth with truth and you will see that no one who is born of God is lost. John also warns you of deceivers who will try to teach you differently.

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Let Truth Abide in You
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try todeceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.



4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

A Better Estimate
9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

 

[shakewell]

Then we no longer want the salvation we once had, it's all laid out in hebrews

No it's not.