Leaving LCMS

[RadMan]

It's time. "Onward Christian Soldiers" has stalled out. I not longer have the energy to confront the issues there anymore. The liberals are on the increase and they might as well incorporate LCMS as a money maker. It would make the new CEOs happy. Then they can sell stock.

Time to move on. I'm not sure where but probably to ELS-WELS. They are more in order of what I believe a synod should be and more in tune to what I believe are biblical truths. Beside that, they are the closest to me. 100 miles round trip.

I'm making an appointment with the ELS pastor next week and will go from there.

 

[DaRev]

Believe it or not, Rad, I am saddened to hear this although not surprised. The LCMS needs more people with your fortitude. May God bless you in your continued faith walk.

 

[RadMan]

The first reason is because I believe the biblical principle of men as spiritual heads of the household. I'm not really an advocate for refusing the women the vote but I can see the reasoning behind this. Men need to be forced to the forefront to take the responsibility of being the spiritual head. Us guys can get lazy and it's easy to let women do things by default and us lay back.

Why do I see this need? I've been to a vast amount of other denoms and I see this relequishing of duties and I've seen what it's done to them. I think that is damage the churches to the point of being social, feel good clubs.

Secondly I would say that ELS-WELS has more control from the congregation standpoint because everyone in the church belongs to the priesthood of believers and they are all "called" to their office. Not just the pastor. Less apt to have the CEO mentality.

Thirdly even though they believe that the synod is the church I think the congregations can be a checks and balance to keep the synod honest. Hopefully less polity because, from what I gather they have deacons and not president, vice president etc. Maybe someone from ELS-WELS can explain this right.

I'm sure there will be instances that I don't agree on everything (imagine that) but where men get involved there will always be that problem.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Of course it is easier for the ELS and WELS to have more control from the congregational standpoint. They are super tiny denominations. I guess if they ever can get a sizeable following they'll have to deal with more issues, but definitley it's best to leave the LCMS! The grass is always greener on the other side! Good Luck!

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Apparently not everyone can see these huge problems within the LCMS. Most members are content, and you of all people, being an LCMS pastor, should not try to make things seem worse than what they really are!

 

[DaRev]

Apparently not everyone can see these huge problems within the LCMS. Most members are content, and you of all people, being an LCMS pastor, should not try to make things seem worse than what they really are!

Who are you talking to?

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Who are you talking to?

...I'm talking to the only Missouri-Synod Pastor here

 

[DaRev]

Well then would you mind explaining your comment?

 

[Jim47]

Well then would you mind explaining your comment?

You mean you flunked your class on mind reading Pastor?

 

[DaRev]

You mean you flunked your class on mind reading Pastor?

Apparently, because I have no clue what he's talking about.

 

[DaSeminarian]

It's time. "Onward Christian Soldiers" has stalled out. I not longer have the energy to confront the issues there anymore. The liberals are on the increase and they might as well incorporate LCMS as a money maker. It would make the new CEOs happy. Then they can sell stock.

Time to move on. I'm not sure where but probably to ELS-WELS. They are more in order of what I believe a synod should be and more in tune to what I believe are biblical truths. Beside that, they are the closest to me. 100 miles round trip.

I'm making an appointment with the ELS pastor next week and will go from there.

Rad,

I too am saddened to see you leave. Like DaRev, I also believe that we need more with your strong beliefs.

There is no such thing as a perfect synod and the LCMS is weak in many area, but we are also strong. I hope you find what you are looking for in a good solid confessional church. ELS is good in many ways but they also have their political drawbacks. Rolf Preus was kicked out because he disagreed with the President on a PCM document. Their ties to the WELS are problematic to them not because WELS is a bad synod (quite the contrary) but because they are brown-nosing with the WELS to continue their Altar-pulpit fellowship.

Our loss is their gain though. God's blessings.

 

[BigNorsk]

Rad,

I read your reasoning and it almost sounds like it's a reaction to your divorce and not really to the LCMS? See the thing is, I believe the LCMS is correct on for instance giving women the vote. The language is not such that any sort of authority whatsoever is not to be, it's more like the authority a boss or commander would have and so I think the LCMS has really been pretty close on the issue. It sounds like you are reflecting on your marriage and thinking if you give women an inch that they take a mile and it will automatically destroy man an his role?

I know some things affect us a lot and it sure doesn't bother me that you would go to the WELS, I'm just concerned that it looks like maybe you are overreacting? One needs to remember that a path has two sides to fall off and if one is too concerned about the one side you usually end up in the ditch on the other. I know you've been kind of miscontent anyway so maybe it's for the best, at least you can see if you like it better.

I would just like to make it clear that I am not in any sort of way attempting in this to discipline you. It's just something to think about. If we were not separated by distance I would give you a hug. That's quite a bit from an uptight Norwegian.

Marv

 

[JFox1]

I'm sorry you're leaving the LCMS. I hope you find a church you like better. Personally, I never considered LCMS to have liberal trends. Before becoming a Lutheran in 1996, I spent 11 years with the United Methodist Church. Now THAT's a liberal denomination!

 

[RadMan]

Rad,

I read your reasoning and it almost sounds like it's a reaction to your divorce and not really to the LCMS? See the thing is, I believe the LCMS is correct on for instance giving women the vote. The language is not such that any sort of authority whatsoever is not to be, it's more like the authority a boss or commander would have and so I think the LCMS has really been pretty close on the issue. It sounds like you are reflecting on your marriage and thinking if you give women an inch that they take a mile and it will automatically destroy man an his role?

I know some things affect us a lot and it sure doesn't bother me that you would go to the WELS, I'm just concerned that it looks like maybe you are overreacting? One needs to remember that a path has two sides to fall off and if one is too concerned about the one side you usually end up in the ditch on the other. I know you've been kind of miscontent anyway so maybe it's for the best, at least you can see if you like it better.

I would just like to make it clear that I am not in any sort of way attempting in this to discipline you. It's just something to think about. If we were not separated by distance I would give you a hug. That's quite a bit from an uptight Norwegian.

Marv

No Marv-----it really has nothing to do with my divorce. As traumatic as it was I don't let things like that get in the way and make me bitter. The spiritual head/voting thing has been a concern of mine for over ten years. I saw the potential for Promise Keepers when it first started and was hoping that some variance would bleed over into the Lutherans. Even though they were off on their theology I though it was one of the best movements to come along in a long time.

And NO------I don't hate women either. Just the opposite. I have a tendency to love them too much. And it isn't a chauvinistic attitude either. I believe any women is qualified to do anything a man does in the secular field and get the same pay. Just not the spiritual.

Beside that "men as heads" is only one of the reason's I would like to transfer over to WELS. The others I have previously listed. And there are more.

In my transitional time I am attending a ELS and Herman Ottens church. If I go with Otten's church it will be LCMS, but probably not for long.

 

[DaSeminarian]

In my transitional time I am attending a ELS and Herman Ottens church. If I go with Otten's church it will be LCMS, but probably not for long.

Hey maybe Herman will let you write for his bird cage lining newspaper. You could call your column "A Biker's Viewpoint"

 

[BigNorsk]

I'm glad to hear you say that Rad, I was concerned.

Marv

 

[LutheranChick]

Rad,

I too am saddened to see you leave. Like DaRev, I also believe that we need more with your strong beliefs.

There is no such thing as a perfect synod and the LCMS is weak in many area, but we are also strong. I hope you find what you are looking for in a good solid confessional church. ELS is good in many ways but they also have their political drawbacks. Rolf Preus was kicked out because he disagreed with the President on a PCM document. Their ties to the WELS are problematic to them not because WELS is a bad synod (quite the contrary) but because they are brown-nosing with the WELS to continue their Altar-pulpit fellowship.

Our loss is their gain though. God's blessings.

Not to be disrespectful, but I must take issue with the 'brown-nosing' comment. ELS does not (and will not) compromise their stand on doctrine just to be in fellowship with another synod. The issue you mention has been studied very carefully within the synod and the position ELS takes is scriptural.

Rad, I wish you God's blessings in your search for a new church.

 

[dinkime]

man, that BIBLE is so horrid in what it teaches...men are the head...

 

[RadMan]

I just remembered that we all have an "ignore" option.

 

[seajoy]

I just remembered that we all have an "ignore" option.

thanks for the reminder.