Leave the Law = To Exist In Grace.

[LoveGodsWord]

the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) No it doesn’t.

The old covenant included the book of the law *Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 31:26 and Gods' law (10 commandments) that was written and spoken by God alone on two tables of stone *Exodus 32:16. Anything that God does according to the scriptures is forever *Ecclesiastes 3:14. Gods law (10 commandments has the same role it always had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to the new covenant scriptures. Under the new covenant however the Mosaic "shadow laws" written in the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7 for remission of sins have been fulfilled in Jesus and his ministration on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary according to the scriptures in the new covenant. Many of these laws of the 613 Mosaic laws for remission of sins (arouund 40%) are what we call "shadow laws" *Hebrews 10:1; Colossians 2:17. They are laws to do with the Sanctuary, Levitical Priesthood, laws for remission of sins, and some of the annual Feast days and have their fulfillment in Christ to who they pointed to under the new covenant. Now we keep them in a new and better way as outlined in the new covenant scriptures. *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28 and Hebrews 10:1-17 etc.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What does Paul mean by 'freedom'?

Galatians 5:13–16:
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself. . . .’ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Paul makes the meaning here very clear in Romans when he says...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS BRIEFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

James also gives the same meaning as Paul when he says...

James 2:8-12 [8], IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Both Paul and James are simply agreeing with what JESUS says in Matthew when he says...

Matthew 22:36:40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Jesus is actually quoting from the old testament scriptures in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.

All three (Jesus, James and Paul) are in agreement together showing that love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law (10 commandments) not by breaking God's law and the two great commandments of love are SUMMING UP how God's law is obeyed in the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and is why JESUS says unless we are born again *John 3:3-7 from the inside out *Matthew 5:20 we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The is why JESUS says "If you love me keep my commandments" in John 14:15 because the love of God is expressed by keeping God's commandments not breaking them and this is done as we have faith in God's Word *1 John 5:3-4.

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the fruit faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians2:13 as we believe and follow his word. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

This is the new covenant promise and why we need to be born again with a new heart to love. According to the scriptures here many do not understand this in Matthew 9:12-13 and may appear outwardly righteous to men *Matthew 23:28; 2 Timothy 3:4 but inwardly full of dead men's bones *Matthew 23:27.

.................

The "FREEDOM" therefore being spoken of in Galatians is freedom from being a slave to sin (breaking God's commandments). We are now free from the condemnation of the law to walk in newness of life in God's Spirit of love *Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; Romans 6:1-23. Freedom is from knowingly continuing in and practicing sin (breaking Gods law) See also John 8:31-36; 1 John 3:4-10

 

[Soyeong]

the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) No it doesn’t.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of the God's Law, which is because it is God's instructions for how to testify about His nature, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). Likewise, God's ways are the ways in which He expresses His nature, and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. The way to testify about God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. For example, by obeying God's righteous laws, we are testifying about God's eternal righteousness, which is why doing good works brings glory to the Father, and that is how we are to sanctify His name (Matthew 5:16). Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so all of the works that he did in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law testified about the nature of the Father, which is why he could say what he said in John 14:6-11. Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to obey the Mosaic Law both by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same nature and therefore the same laws for how to testify about His nature (Hebrews 8:10).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of the God's Law, which is because it is God's instructions for how to testify about His nature, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). Likewise, God's ways are the ways in which He expresses His nature, and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. The way to testify about God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. For example, by obeying God's righteous laws, we are testifying about God's eternal righteousness, which is why doing good works brings glory to the Father, and that is how we are to sanctify His name (Matthew 5:16). Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so all of the works that he did in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law testified about the nature of the Father, which is why he could say what he said in John 14:6-11. Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to obey the Mosaic Law both by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same nature and therefore the same laws for how to testify about His nature (Hebrews 8:10).

Irregardless the Hebrew pattern is of the temple not of the laws.

 

[1213]

...Its also a fact that an unsaved person will teach the same, because they are also, under the dominion of Law.

I think “under the law” means one obeys it to gain or to avoid something. People should not obey God’s law to earn something, but because they love God and think the law is good and right.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Irregardless the Hebrew pattern is of the temple not of the laws.

Exactly and it is this pattern (shadow laws for remission of sins - Hebrews 10:1-17) that pointed to Jesus and his new ministration on our behalf as our new great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary in the new covenant *Hebrews 7:1-28; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28 and Hebrews 10:1-17 etc.. Though this does not mean we are now free to break God's law. Gods law (10 commandments has the same role it always had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness (right doing) when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to the new covenant scriptures *James 2:10-11. The purpose of God's law has the same role it always has and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is and to lead us to God in confession and repentance *1 John 1:9; Matthew 3:2; Acts of the Apostles 2:38 that we might receive Gods' promise of forgiveness through faith *1 John 1:9 and be made free to walk in His Spirit of love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; John 8:31-36; 1 John 5:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Exactly and it is this pattern (shadow laws for remission of sins - Hebrews 10:1) that pointed to Jesus and his new ministration on our behalf as our new great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary in the new covenant. Though this does not mean we are now free to break God's law. Gods law (10 commandments has the same role it always had under the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to the new covenant scriptures *James 2:10-11. The purpose of God's law has the same role it always has and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is and to lead us to God in confession and repentance *1 John 1:9; Matthew 3:2; Acts of the Apostles 2:38 that we might receive Gods' promise of forgiveness through faith *1 John 1:9 and be made free to walk in His Spirit of love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16; John 8:31-36; 1 John 5:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9

Some would say that is working on the sabbath by doing outward works when only inner works are seen in the temple area. Or others would say shadows have no place in Hebrews 10 theology if you had ever read Hebrews.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Some would say that is working on the sabbath by doing outward works when only inner works are seen in the temple area. Or others would say shadows have no place in Hebrews 10 theology if you had ever read Hebrews.

Sorry perhaps it is me but I do not understand what your saying here Cassie. Did you wish to explain yourself here a little further?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Sorry perhaps it is me but I do not understand what your saying here Cassie. Did you wish to explain yourself here a little further?

nah law vs grace discussions are annoying.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

nah

Oh ok and why is that?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Oh ok and why is that?

Different wavelengths due to the different points of view I would imagine.

 

[Soyeong]

What does Paul mean by 'freedom'?

Galatians 5:13–16:
For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself. . . .’ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

The reason why the land of the free is not also the land where there are no laws is because we can use our freedoms to create bondage, so true freedom is not the freedom to do whatever we want according to the desires of the flesh, but the freedom to do what we ought through walking by the Spirit. God legislatures do not create laws with the goal of hindering our freedoms, but with the goal of enhancing them, and how we ought to live than God. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Mosaic Law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, and in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, so the Mosaic Law is the way to walk by the Spirit. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the truth that sets us free, while it is sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us in bondage. So in regard to the Mosaic Law, we must be like violins who trust God to tie down our strings in order to be free to make music.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Different wavelengths due to the different points of view I would imagine.

There is no grace without Gods' law as it is God's law that leads us to God's grace according to the scriptures *Galatians 3:22-25; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3:31 Matthew 9:12-13. There is only two paths according to the scriptures. One is wide and leads to destruction and the other is narrow that leads to life and few there be that find it *Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[Soyeong]

Irregardless the Hebrew pattern is of the temple not of the laws.

A fractal pattern is structurally the same at small and large scales, so we should structure every aspect of our lives according to the heavenly pattern by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

This is exactly right, but it is the limited severity of it. Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

The old law vs new law that is the fruit of life

Against those things there is no law.

 

[Soyeong]

This is exactly right, but it is the limited severity of it. Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

Against those things there is no law.

Jesus expressed the fruits of the Spirit through his actions and what that looked like was a life lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law. There is no law against the fruits of the Spirit because they are all aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with the Mosaic Law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is exactly right, but it is the limited severity of it. Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

Against those things there is no law.

True which is why we need to be born again to love according to the scriptures. Those who are born again do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 3:4 and those that do have not seen him or know him *1 John 2:3-4. Those who practice sin and those who do not is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John *1 John 3:9-10. God's salvation is from sin not to continue in sin according to Jesus *John 8:31-36 and is why he says "If you love me keep my commandments" - John 14:15. Unless we are born again from the inside out we are only like the Scribes and the Pharisees that appear righteous to men but inwardly like dead men's bones *Matthew 5:20; Matthew 23:27. God's salvation is from the inside out *Matthew 15:19-20; Matthew 5:20; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 3:31.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Jesus expressed the fruits of the Spirit through his actions and what that looked like was a life lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law. There is no law against the fruits of the Spirit because they are all aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with the Mosaic Law.

And that is living according to the Mosaic covenant.

 

[Soyeong]

And that is living according to the Mosaic covenant.

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same nature and the same laws for how to testify about His nature. If the way to testify about God's nature were to change when the New Covenant was made, then God's nature would not be eternal.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same nature and the same laws for how to testify about His nature. If the way to testify about God's nature were to change when the New Covenant was made, then God's nature would not be eternal.

It was a positional change for humans not a change in God or Christ. From two to one, grafted in, but containing branches that the gardening either has an ax to or pruning shears.