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Learning to believe, or why does God allow doubt?

reddogs

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I came across the following while researching for the Lesson Study which I have to teach today. What struck me was that until six months ago I really didnt believe, I heard all the teachings in my youth, went to college surrounded by my classmates, went through life shielded by friends and family that were adventist and never had a reason to doubt or a reason to learn to believe until now! So the following hit me like a brick, God isn't just going to say 'you believe I exist so here is eternal life', I really do have to flex my spiritual muscles and believe personally and have a intimate relationship with Jesus and not just wait for eternal life to strike me as I slept in the back pew as was my custom.......:sleep: :

"When my dad left the church, he started telling me about the doubts he had harbored about the Adventist church through his years as a pastor. He made fun of Ellen White, making me extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. The man who had been the spiritual head of not only my family but of several churches recanted everything he had professed to believe. He drifted from church to church and at times gave up on God altogether, claiming he no longer believed that God existed.

Naturally, this made me question some of my own beliefs. Mostly, I was defiant. I did not want to believe that he was right, so I didn’t think about it much. I dismissed his misgivings as bitterness because of the way he felt he was ostracized by old friends and colleagues in the church. My father’s crisis of belief shook me, but not enough for me to reconsider my own faith.

Years passed in which I didn’t really think about religion but took my faith and my salvation for granted. When I got to college, I could no longer take anything for granted. My relationships with friends and family changed. I wasn’t the social butterfly or leader that I had been in high school. I didn’t know where I fit into college, church or religion. I still loved the Adventist religion, the people in it, the doctrines that I thought were beautiful, but I felt disconnected from all of it.

While doing research for a religion class I came across a Web site made by former Adventists, and I started reading. My heart beat faster, and my throat constricted as I read the accusations that were posed: Ellen White was not a prophet; the investigative judgment teaching had no basis in scripture; the Ten Commandments, and therefore the Sabbath, were done away with at Christ’s death. I was terrified. Although I didn’t want to read, I sat transfixed in front of the computer screen.
After more than an hour, I finally left and called my fiancé, Michael. Fear gripped my heart like a mousetrap. I wept as I told Michael about the things I had read.

“Does this make you doubt God?” he asked me.

“No, but what if we’re wrong about everything we’ve believed? It’s scary to think that we could have all been led so far from the truth,” I answered.

That Web site and the ensuing conversation with Michael led me on a journey to discover what I believed. I talked to my mother, sister, friends and teachers about why they believed in the Adventist church. I asked them if they had heard about these claims, and nearly all of them had. “So why are you still an Adventist?” I asked.

Each person had a different answer, but what it all boiled down to was that each person had chosen to believe. There is no hard proof for Christianity. We cannot be absolutely sure that there is a God or that Jesus rose from the dead. We do not know without a doubt that he will come back again.

I decided to start with the basics: Do I believe in God? I know that I have to, because without him my life has no purpose. Do I believe that Jesus died so that I could live forever? Once again, I can’t know for certain, but I want to believe, and so I choose to believe. Is the Adventist church led by God? In this area I do see evidence of God’s leading. I see humble, godly people all around me: my mother, my teachers, pastors and employers who are part of the Adventist faith. God is leading in the lives of the people who are leading this church.

I still have questions, but I think God can handle my questions. I have chosen to believe that God is leading in the Adventist church and in my life. In his book Life of Pi, Yann Martel describes the faith journey of an Indian boy named Pi who embraces Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism. Pi says that doubt has a purpose, “Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gethsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if he burst out from the Cross, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ then surely we are also permitted doubt. But we must move on.”

I read Life of Pi during the time that I was searching for answers, and one sentence struck me. “To choose doubt as a philosophy of Life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation.” So I choose to believe. " excerpted from Learning to Believe by Angela Schafer.
 

honorthesabbath

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I came across the following while researching for the Lesson Study which I have to teach today. What struck me was that until six months ago I really didnt believe, I heard all the teachings in my youth, went to college surrounded by my classmates, went through life shielded by friends and family that were adventist and never had a reason to doubt or a reason to learn to believe until now! So the following hit me like a brick, God isn't just going to say 'you believe I exist so here is eternal life', I really do have to flex my spiritual muscles and believe personally and have a intimate relationship with Jesus and not just wait for eternal life to strike me as I slept in the back pew as was my custom.......:sleep: :

"When my dad left the church, he started telling me about the doubts he had harbored about the Adventist church through his years as a pastor. He made fun of Ellen White, making me extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. The man who had been the spiritual head of not only my family but of several churches recanted everything he had professed to believe. He drifted from church to church and at times gave up on God altogether, claiming he no longer believed that God existed.

Naturally, this made me question some of my own beliefs. Mostly, I was defiant. I did not want to believe that he was right, so I didn’t think about it much. I dismissed his misgivings as bitterness because of the way he felt he was ostracized by old friends and colleagues in the church. My father’s crisis of belief shook me, but not enough for me to reconsider my own faith.

Years passed in which I didn’t really think about religion but took my faith and my salvation for granted. When I got to college, I could no longer take anything for granted. My relationships with friends and family changed. I wasn’t the social butterfly or leader that I had been in high school. I didn’t know where I fit into college, church or religion. I still loved the Adventist religion, the people in it, the doctrines that I thought were beautiful, but I felt disconnected from all of it.

While doing research for a religion class I came across a Web site made by former Adventists, and I started reading. My heart beat faster, and my throat constricted as I read the accusations that were posed: Ellen White was not a prophet; the investigative judgment teaching had no basis in scripture; the Ten Commandments, and therefore the Sabbath, were done away with at Christ’s death. I was terrified. Although I didn’t want to read, I sat transfixed in front of the computer screen.
After more than an hour, I finally left and called my fiancé, Michael. Fear gripped my heart like a mousetrap. I wept as I told Michael about the things I had read.

“Does this make you doubt God?” he asked me.

“No, but what if we’re wrong about everything we’ve believed? It’s scary to think that we could have all been led so far from the truth,” I answered.

That Web site and the ensuing conversation with Michael led me on a journey to discover what I believed. I talked to my mother, sister, friends and teachers about why they believed in the Adventist church. I asked them if they had heard about these claims, and nearly all of them had. “So why are you still an Adventist?” I asked.

Each person had a different answer, but what it all boiled down to was that each person had chosen to believe. There is no hard proof for Christianity. We cannot be absolutely sure that there is a God or that Jesus rose from the dead. We do not know without a doubt that he will come back again.

I decided to start with the basics: Do I believe in God? I know that I have to, because without him my life has no purpose. Do I believe that Jesus died so that I could live forever? Once again, I can’t know for certain, but I want to believe, and so I choose to believe. Is the Adventist church led by God? In this area I do see evidence of God’s leading. I see humble, godly people all around me: my mother, my teachers, pastors and employers who are part of the Adventist faith. God is leading in the lives of the people who are leading this church.

I still have questions, but I think God can handle my questions. I have chosen to believe that God is leading in the Adventist church and in my life. In his book Life of Pi, Yann Martel describes the faith journey of an Indian boy named Pi who embraces Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism. Pi says that doubt has a purpose, “Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gethsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if he burst out from the Cross, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ then surely we are also permitted doubt. But we must move on.”

I read Life of Pi during the time that I was searching for answers, and one sentence struck me. “To choose doubt as a philosophy of Life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation.” So I choose to believe. " excerpted from Learning to Believe by Angela Schafer.
REDDOG--thank you! You cannot believe what reading your post has meant to me. Without going into detail, a certain event in my life has left me full of doubt. It took 5 years of continual chopping at my foundation, but now doubt has me in it's grasp.

Doubt is a horrible thing. I used to read about it in the bible. I used to listen to others as they revealed their bouts with it. But all I could say about them in my mind was--COWARDS! Oh just STOP IT!! But now I KNOW what true doubt is. And it is life threatening. When one developes doubt 'of' God and 'in' God--the whole person begins to die. Our 'purpose' is gone. Our life loses joy. Doubt is a big black hole that sucks it's victim down deeper and deeper until one day the light is completely gone and no amount of treading or fighting can get you out of it. It's a steal trap of the mind--the thoughts--the heart. I think the bible refers to it as 'lost'.

How does doubt get such a hold on us? How can we go from staunch supporter of God and His Word--to this cowering rubble in the corner? How do go from, 'can't wait to get to church' to 'it holds no interst for me now'? EGW once stated that 'tobacco is a most insidious poison'. The same thing might be said about doubt. Doubt kills--there is no 'doubt'--about that. Now the question is--how do we ever get out of it's grip? Is this condtion hopeless? I guess I'm like the person in the bible,that said, "Mr 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief."

Thanks again red for bring this topic up. It's rarely discussed honestly.

Linda
 
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TrustAndObey

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Hi Honor! Good to see you here.

Doubt can crumble a tiny foundation real fast too, believe me.

I remember telling a good friend of mine that I think she was luckier to have found God AFTER a terrible tragedy in her life, because then it would be easier to say "if I'd only had God THEN it might not have happened."

But the truth is, it happens to God's people no matter when they get their penny (like the parable).

I can honestly say that I have never doubted that we do have a Creator, however, I have doubted several times whether or not He loves me.

Ocassionally throughout my life I would have a quick "what if this is all a lie?" type of thought, but it really is quick and fading. Especially now that I've read scripture and really see the great controversy for what it is.

I see God in my science books (even though they try to snuff Him out), and all around me every single day.

I choose to believe too Reddogs.

I belong on a message board about somethng totally unrelated to Christianity and one day a woman posted that she was an atheist. She was/is someone I have always really liked and gotten along with, so it shocked me.

Back then I hadn't read the bible and hadn't been in church for 20+ years, so my simple answer to her was "well, if people do believe, what harm has it done to live a life where you regard people as high as you do yourself? What harm does it do to have faith in something bigger than yourself and stay on the straight and narrow throughout your life?"

She agreed that it doesn't HARM anybody, but that it was sad to watch people go through their lives with false hopes that they'd wake up after death and be with someone they really only knew through a book. I asked her "yeah, but how would they know if they didn't wake up?"

As I was explaining to her that it isn't just a BOOK and when you form a relationship with Christ, you change in so many ways, I realized....I didn't have the relationship I'm trying to tell her is so wonderful.

I started searching for answers way back then, and I chose to believe then too.

So much of science is guesswork, I see it ALL the time now. Science will NEVER take away my faith in God. In fact, science can't help but prove there's a Creator, but most scientists will deny it until they die.

You know what? God is big enough to handle our anger!! In scripture you see people getting angry with Him a lot, and things are no different now.

I always knew I'd come back. I'm just very thankful I did it before it was too late. Way too many things were creeping back into my life that I knew I shouldn't allow in....and boy, that happens FAST when you don't have a Christ-centered life!

I know we have a Creator. I won't ever doubt that.
 
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reddogs

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REDDOG--thank you! You cannot believe what reading your post has meant to me. Without going into detail, a certain event in my life has left me full of doubt. It took 5 years of continual chopping at my foundation, but now doubt has me in it's grasp.

Doubt is a horrible thing. I used to read about it in the bible. I used to listen to others as they revealed their bouts with it. But all I could say about them in my mind was--COWARDS! Oh just STOP IT!! But now I KNOW what true doubt is. And it is life threatening. When one developes doubt 'of' God and 'in' God--the whole person begins to die. Our 'purpose' is gone. Our life loses joy. Doubt is a big black hole that sucks it's victim down deeper and deeper until one day the light is completely gone and no amount of treading or fighting can get you out of it. It's a steal trap of the mind--the thoughts--the heart. I think the bible refers to it as 'lost'.

How does doubt get such a hold on us? How can we go from staunch supporter of God and His Word--to this cowering rubble in the corner? How do go from, 'can't wait to get to church' to 'it holds no interst for me now'? EGW once stated that 'tobacco is a most insidious poison'. The same thing might be said about doubt. Doubt kills--there is no 'doubt'--about that. Now the question is--how do we ever get out of it's grip? Is this condtion hopeless? I guess I'm like the person in the bible,that said, "Mr 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief."

Thanks again red for bring this topic up. It's rarely discussed honestly.

Linda

Someone close to me heard the message of division against EGW and let doubt come in and destroy his spiritual life and recanted everything he had professed to believe and has turned to the occult which to me was worse than being an outright atheist.............

So I studied the lesson on how we can believe in the scriptures through the evidence given us through archeology. Then I went on how we must flex our spiritual muscles and learn to believe and then on how doubt showed up even with the disciples with Jesus I had my group read the following:

Matthew 14:31
Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"

Jesus Walks on the Water

22Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. 23After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone, 24but the boat was already a considerable distance[a] from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it.
25During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.
27But Jesus immediately said to them: "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid."
28"Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
29"Come," he said.
Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
31Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?" 32And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."


Matthew 21:21
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

The Fig Tree Withers

18Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.
20When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. "How did the fig tree wither so quickly?" they asked. 21Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Jesus Appears to Thomas

24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
 
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djconklin

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"When my dad left the church, he started telling me about the doubts he had harbored about the Adventist church through his years as a pastor. He made fun of Ellen White, making me extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. The man who had been the spiritual head of not only my family but of several churches recanted everything he had professed to believe. He drifted from church to church and at times gave up on God altogether, claiming he no longer believed that God existed."

There are some ex-SDA's who claim that they still believe in God and the Bible, but sooner or later the fruit will come to bear.

I recently went through my own private hell; but, then it dawned on me--while it was people who did the actual attacking it was really Satan behind it all. He really doesn't want me to finish my work that God has given me because he knows what effect it will have.
 
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NightEternal

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Yeah, that comment didn't sit too well with me either, but I didn't want to make a issue of it. All it really does is provide the formers with more ammunition to use against us. Such vast generalizations only serve to cause more conflict with them.

I know quite a few formers who have quietly left the church and are productive, Spirit-filled Christians who are more on fire for Jesus than ever. They do not attack the church and they have no desire to try and convince anyone to leave.

Not all formers are the rabid, foaming at the mouth, Adventist haters like some of the ones you find on the Former Adventist website.
 
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djconklin

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I know quite a few formers who have quietly left the church and are productive, Spirit-filled Christians who are more on fire for Jesus than ever. They do not attack the church and they have no desire to try and convince anyone to leave.

Bet those are few and far between! I keep running into the buzz saw types.

Not all formers are the rabid, foaming at the mouth, Adventist haters like some of the ones you find on the Former Adventist website.

Not all, very true. As for others wait and see. I highly doubt that they'd rejoin--although it has happened and as I recall hearing they were stronger than before! Kind of like being a reformed drunk--they had to get it out of their system.
 
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reddogs

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Bet those are few and far between! I keep running into the buzz saw types.



Not all, very true. As for others wait and see. I highly doubt that they'd rejoin--although it has happened and as I recall hearing they were stronger than before! Kind of like being a reformed drunk--they had to get it out of their system.

I have seen most of those that leave the church slowly turn to be its greatest attackers and destroyers of truth, they pick up any doctrine or false belief to use against the church or its brethren......

The only difference is in the degree or level of attack...
 
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