Learning from NonChristians

[bhsmte]

As someone who lives in Mississippi, I have to say it is pretty hard to separate religious beliefs from the local culture. But it is possible that economic class has something to do with it as well. More people are poor here. It is rather like our prison population. I venture to guess that the prison population has a higher percentage of fundamentalist Christians than does the US population as a whole. But it's not because their religious beliefs lead them to criminal behavior.

In other words, correlation does not prove causation.

In general, I would agree.

To me, the more interesting question is, why is a higher portion of this population religious to begin with and what benefits does the belief in religion deliver to these people?

Another trend that is quite obvious in the United States; the areas with higher education, have fewer who are religious, compared to the lower educated parts of the country.

 

[smaneck]

Another trend that is quite obvious in the United States; the areas with higher education, have fewer who are religious, compared to the lower educated parts of the country.

That's largely true the world over but as one Middle Eastern historian noted, it is not true of the Baha'i community. Within the Baha'i community religiosity tends to go up not down with the level of education.

 

[bhsmte]

That's largely true the world over but as one Middle Eastern historian noted, it is not true of the Baha'i community. Within the Baha'i community religiosity tends to go up not down with the level of education.

Yes, I am aware of world wide data that correlates higher education with less religious involvement.

Why do you think the Baha'i community is uniquely different in this regard?

 

[MarkSB]

As someone who lives in Mississippi, I have to say it is pretty hard to separate religious beliefs from the local culture. But it is possible that economic class has something to do with it as well. More people are poor here. It is rather like our prison population. I venture to guess that the prison population has a higher percentage of fundamentalist Christians than does the US population as a whole. But it's not because their religious beliefs lead them to criminal behavior.

In other words, correlation does not prove causation.

Obviously, and especially with an issue as complex as marriage and divorce. When she makes her assumptions about Bible belt states she also attributes it to what she considers to be "religious beliefs," but IIRC some of the things she describes (such as "shotgun weddings") aren't religious beliefs at all.

What really got me was the references and citations though. I haven't read it since last night, but the first two references I clicked on didn't support what she was saying, in fact they say the exact opposite (catholic divorce rates significantly lower than the national average, born again evangelical divorce rates lower than the national average). Its as if the links/citations were put in there with the hope that no one would ever click on them.

The Barna study she references also goes against what you said when you posted the article, as it shows divorce rates for those who call themselves conservative to be considerably lower than divorce rates for the politically and socially liberal.

I mean really, am I missing something?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What do you feel Christians should learn from the world of unbelievers?


.

I don't know... maybe we could learn all those things we didn't already learn when we were non-Christians ourselves.

The things I learned from non-Christians when I grew up were: how to lust after naked women (Hugh Hefner), how to ingratiate my mind with all things science fiction and spend all my time reading comics (DC/Marvel/Stan Lee) and watching movies (George Lucas/Steven Spielberg), how to wheedle away even more precious hours playing Dungeons and Dragons (Gary Gygax), how to have despair because there most likely isn't a god and this universe is "all that is, was, or ever will be" (Carl Sagan), how to keep guessing which drug prescriptions might actually be effective in treating my mother's schizophrenia, while at the same time being told (by same prescribing psychiatrist) that Bertrand Russell was a role model.

I don't know...there's all kinds of things we could learn. I'm not so sure exactly what we should be learning from non-Christians. I'm not so sure what people could have really learned from me when I was a non-Christian.

 

[smaneck]

Yes, I am aware of world wide data that correlates higher education with less religious involvement.

Why do you think the Baha'i community is uniquely different in this regard?

Keep in mind that the correlation between higher education and the lack of religiosity is a modern phenomenon. In pre-modern times the educated were mostly the religious scholars. What I think has happened today is that most religions have not been able to keep up with the modern world and find themselves at odds with science, etc. So the more educated people become the less their religion makes sense. I think the Baha'i Faith tends to make more sense the more educated people become, in part because we insist on the agreement of science and religion.

 

[bhsmte]

Keep in mind that the correlation between higher education and the lack of religiosity is a modern phenomenon. In pre-modern times the educated were mostly the religious scholars. What I think has happened today is that most religions have not been able to keep up with the modern world and find themselves at odds with science, etc. So the more educated people become the less their religion makes sense. I think the Baha'i Faith tends to make more sense the more educated people become, in part because we insist on the agreement of science and religion.

Yes, the higher education with less religious involvement is a fairly modern phenomenon, likely because the advancement of science in the last 100 years.

Interesting stuff in regards to the Baha'i faith, thanks.

 

[JGG]

I don't know... maybe we could learn all those things we didn't already learn when we were non-Christians ourselves.

The things I learned from non-Christians when I grew up were: how to lust after naked women (Hugh Hefner), how to ingratiate my mind with all things science fiction and spend all my time reading comics (DC/Marvel/Stan Lee) and watching movies (George Lucas/Steven Spielberg), how to wheedle away even more precious hours playing Dungeons and Dragons (Gary Gygax), how to have despair because there most likely isn't a god and this universe is "all that is, was, or ever will be" (Carl Sagan), how to keep guessing which drug prescriptions might actually be effective in treating my mother's schizophrenia, while at the same time being told (by same prescribing psychiatrist) that Bertrand Russell was a role model.

I don't know...there's all kinds of things we could learn. I'm not so sure exactly what we should be learning from non-Christians. I'm not so sure what people could have really learned from me when I was a non-Christian.

What do you think people are learning from you now that you're a Christian?

 

[HitchSlap]

many things. one of the biggest things that stand out right now is how not to ruin your life, wasting it away in sin.

I read this as believers ruining their life and wasting it away in sin. Atheists recognize that you only get one go around, and to make the most of it, living a life without regrets, cultivating deep personal relationships and trying to impact people in a positive way and hopefully leaving something of value behind.

To answer the OP, believers can learn how to be humble from non-believers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I think there is an advantage to having religious people pray about things like this; their prayers just might inspire them to actually do something as well. When you are praying for something you are at least thinking about it. And getting people to think about such things is the first step to getting them to act.

I get your point, but I think you are missing part of mine.
Indeed, thinking about it can make the empathy and "guilt of living a comfy life yourself" build up within you till it reaches some kind of critical mass that triggers you into doing something.

The problem manifests in the psychology of "praying" vs "thinking". To someone who believes praying works and prayers get answered, they believe they are already doing something.

 

[smaneck]

The problem manifests in the psychology of "praying" vs "thinking". To someone who believes praying works and prayers get answered, they believe they are already doing something.

Now that might make an interesting poll. What percentage of those who pray for the victims of natural catastrophes do something beyond praying to help them?

 

[whitebeaches]

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