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TheyCallMeDavid

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I wouldn't call it secular, I would call it the reality of the human psyche.

True respect is earned through one's behavior and is not demanded.

Gods way is to show respect to All, but to not be respectful of a degrading or immoral behavior / lifestyle ..and if in fact that is occurring, then we are to expose it .

Gods ways and Mans ways are quite different almost all the time. Im on Gods bandwagon. Theres room for you .
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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I just read an article that said that the event of the Superbowl has authorities worried because of human trafficking! there is still human slavery today, right in front of our eyes sometimes. I had no idea!


Human Trafficking (which is a nice way to say : Selling Humans for financial profit ... usually innocent and defenseless Adolescence... by taking them away to a different Country , is a global problem. Every 30 seconds, a child is trafficked : http://www.jashow.org/wiki/index.php/Modern_Sex_Slave_Trafficking_and_How_You_Can_Help
 
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bhsmte

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Gods way is to show respect to All, but to not be respectful of a degrading or immoral behavior / lifestyle ..and if in fact that is occurring, then we are to expose it .

Gods ways and Mans ways are quite different almost all the time. Im on Gods bandwagon. Theres room for you .

I'm quite sure that is the way you would rationalize the topic, but I will repeat myself; true respect is earned, it is not demanded, it is based on one's behaviors, not one's title or words.
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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All I can say, David, is that you must have lived a very sheltered life. History isn't as pretty or ethical as you want it to be. I can find current cultures that live very moral and ethical lives ...and I find very corrupt societies in every time frame you can name...usually very mainstream.

Youre kind of building a Strawman Argument because I never said that the past was squeaky clean of immorality and crime . I maintain that today in America especially, we have some degrading issues that are vehemently promoted , seen as totally permissible , are performed without shame, with the majority of Onlookers given over to apathy regarding it.
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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I'm quite sure that is the way you would rationalize the topic, but I will repeat myself; true respect is earned, it is not demanded, it is based on one's behaviors, not one's title or words.

Gods way is thus : People deserve intrinsic respect and dignity because they are made in the very likeness and image of their Creator first and foremost (and not because it is demanded) , if they live a life worthy of admiration...then they get admired and recognized for the right reasons . It is not based on Ones Title , educational achievements, power, prestige, or financial wealth since none of these things truly make a Person favorable to God . And if they are favorable to Ones Peers, then its usually because the Peer can benefit somehow from it. , as is the way of self centered Human Kind.

It is God that is the standard on this issue., and not what fellow Humans will or will not give Another based on their own subjective standards.

Gods ways are usually the opposite of Mans pop-philosophy .
 
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bhsmte

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Youre kind of building a Strawman Argument because I never said that the past was squeaky clean of immorality and crime . I maintain that today in America especially, we have some degrading issues that are vehemently promoted , seen as totally permissible , are performed without shame, with the majority of Onlookers given over to apathy regarding it.

Well David, you continuously try and tell a tale about morality and how morality is going down the toilet, because there are not enough christians. You have also failed to support your claims with evidence, yet I have posted more than one study, that actually shows atheists have lower divorce rates, lower crime rates and in countries that have far fewer christians than the United States, the quality of life (crime rates, education, etc.) is better than the US.

Christian Polling Group Finds Atheists Divorce Less Than Christians | The New Civil Rights Movement
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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Well David, you continuously try and tell a tale about morality and how morality is going down the toilet, because there are not enough christians. You have also failed to support your claims with evidence, yet I have posted more than one study, that actually shows atheists have lower divorce rates, lower crime rates and in countries that have far fewer christians than the United States, the quality of life (crime rates, education, etc.) is better than the US.

Christian Polling Group Finds Atheists Divorce Less Than Christians | The New Civil Rights Movement

The reason the USA is in a cesspool of immoral lifestyles and daily practices, is because most of the Country has relegated God and his absolute loving moral mandates to the backburner..or..have tossed them in the trash so they can be their own 'god' .

Just taking into account the pop-atheist ideal of 'moral relativism' lived out...should be enough to make any rational person conclude that those who embrace this philosophy are going to be the Ones who are the Perpetrators ; true and genuine Christians (not those who profess they are or those who have an intellectual-assent only toward God) ...are a Group who have been completely transformed from the worldly philosophy of moral relativism and who thru a very real Born Again work of God , are not only interested in living a high moral life but who also occupy Gods power to maintain it. This comparison is based on pure common sense . If a person thinks they are afforded moral relativism without ultimate moral accountability... certainly you don't think they aren't going to fully excersise it in the name of 'freedom' and autonomy , do you ? Looking at the link you posted, I see a few problems with it : 1. It doesn't make sense based on what I just shared with you above . 2. Who knows if the 'Christians' surveyed were actual truly Born Again Followers of Christ or just professed- Christians . 3. What part of the Nation was the Study conducted on ? If the South, then the Poll isn't fair because in the South there are far more Households that suffer monetarily which is THE major reason for divorce . 4. A Group of People (non Christians) who get married in a church don't believe they are getting married in front of God and are vowing to him...versus....real Christians who do --- this will naturally make a case for more divorce among the irreligious because of no divine basis or accountability. Therefore, the Study you submitted has some obvious loopholes to it. .

And yes...you do need to become a Christian so you can be reconciled to God thru Christ so your many accumulated sins are not counted against you. Here is the way very simply :

Admit you are a Sinner in need of a Saviour .
Believe that Jesus is that Savior sent from Heaven to atone for your committed sins .
Confess that Jesus is the Savior of the World and that you've made him your King thru surrendering your entire life to him from this point forward. Confess he died and rose again after three days .
Then vow to use the remainder of your life in service to God and Others to the best of your ability.
Find a good local Church to attend where you can grow and make new Friends whom are going to Heaven with you also.

Please don't spend the rest of your life rejecting your Creator whos the Creator of the Universe. There is no greater crime than that.
 
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dayhiker

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David .. I'm with you on treating people with respect because they are created in the image of God. The people I start to not follow that model is those that Michelle just brought up in her thread about evil people.

bhsmte - I've been aware of the those numbers, atheists have lower divorce number, for a while now. I have no data, just a concept, that atheists are less judgmental and more intelligent than the average person and so have better communication and thus better relationships.
 
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bhsmte

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The reason the USA is in a cesspool of immoral lifestyles and daily practices, is because most of the Country has relegated God and his absolute loving moral mandates to the backburner..or..have tossed them in the trash so they can be their own 'god' .

Just taking into account the pop-atheist ideal of 'moral relativism' lived out...should be enough to make any rational person conclude that those who embrace this philosophy are going to be the Ones who are the Perpetrators ; true and genuine Christians (not those who profess they are or those who have an intellectual-assent only toward God) ...are a Group who have been completely transformed from the worldly philosophy of moral relativism and who thru a very real Born Again work of God , are not only interested in living a high moral life but who also occupy Gods power to maintain it. This comparison is based on pure common sense . If a person thinks they are afforded moral relativism without ultimate moral accountability... certainly you don't think they aren't going to fully excersise it in the name of 'freedom' and autonomy , do you ?

ANd yes, I have provided 4 independent unbiased scientific studies and polls to validate the above claim...but being a Moral Relativist yourself , you don't want to own the findings. I cant help you with that im afraid. And yes...you do need to become a Christian so you can be reconciled to God thru Christ so your many accumulated sins are not counted against you. Here is the way very simply :

Admit you are a Sinner in need of a Saviour .
Believe that Jesus is that Savior sent from Heaven to atone for your committed sins .
Confess that Jesus is the Savior of the World and that you've made him your King thru surrendering your entire life to him from this point forward. Confess he died and rose again after three days .
Then vow to use the remainder of your life in service to God and Others to the best of your ability.
Find a good local Church to attend where you can grow and make new Friends whom are going to Heaven with you also.

Thats your opinion, which does not coincide with the available evidence. The correlation you promote in your own mind has no objective evidence to support it, but there is objective evidence that supports the opposite of what you claim.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...hy-atheism-will-replace-religion-new-evidence
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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Thats your opinion, which does not coincide with the available evidence. The correlation you promote in your own mind has no objective evidence to support it, but there is objective evidence that supports the opposite of what you claim.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...hy-atheism-will-replace-religion-new-evidence

I don't expect you to agree with the rationale I submitted above , nor the 4 independent unbiased Studies and Polls I have already submitted to you which conclusively shows the Irreligious are lower in character/morals/and ethics than their Counterparts --- to do so would be an affront to the atheistic ideology you want to maintain.

So at that, Id like to focus on the more relevant topic that BlackRibbon and I have been discussing. This would be on Leadership, and Spousal needs and expectations in a marriage context. You are welcome to join us .
 
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bhsmte

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I don't expect you to agree with the rationale I submitted above , nor the 4 independent unbiased Studies and Polls I have already submitted to you which conclusively shows the Irreligious are lower in character/morals/and ethics than their Counterparts --- to do so would be an affront to the atheistic ideology you want to maintain.

So at that, Id like to focus on the more relevant topic that BlackRibbon and I have been discussing. This would be on Leadership, and Spousal needs and expectations in a marriage context. You are welcome to join us .

You submitted no such studies that showed non-religious are of lower character or morals. You submitted a poll, in which people's PERCEPTIONS were asked, which has NOTHING to do with reality.

What I submitted (which tells the opposite of what you claim) actually has objective evidence to show; atheists show tendencies of higher morality (less divorce, less crime) and countries with less religion, have a higher quality of life.

Feel free though, to resubmit the studies you claim have objective evidence to SUPPORT what you have claimed on these boards many times. We are all waiting, so go ahead and submit.
 
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dayhiker

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bhs ... your actually not following the rules by posting here. Those that post here aren't particularly interested in the letter of those rules.
But the bigger thing is almost all the chat here is personal experience and what the Bible says. So your requiring scientific data is more for a debate thread. Which this isn't. That would actually change the nature of this board and its not what we are interested in. Thanks for not changing the nature of this board.
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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You submitted no such studies that showed non-religious are of lower character or morals. You submitted a poll, in which people's PERCEPTIONS were asked, which has NOTHING to do with reality.

What I submitted (which tells the opposite of what you claim) actually has objective evidence to show; atheists show tendencies of higher morality (less divorce, less crime) and countries with less religion, have a higher quality of life.

Feel free though, to resubmit the studies you claim have objective evidence to SUPPORT what you have claimed on these boards many times. We are all waiting, so go ahead and submit.

What DayHiker said is correct, that this thread is not the venue for such scientific things as you want to discuss. , nor is it on topic. I suspect that you even went out of your way to find me in this Room to continue this ongoing dispute we have between us ; if so, then that wasn't nice and would be a violation of C.F.'s Terms. If you want to go a few more rounds on this matter that you seek me out for, then id be pleased to have a Formal Debate on it with you as there is new Formal Debate Room for matters that an atheist and Christian can discuss. You can go here to make your Proposal and just let them know Im interested in being your Debate Opponent. Thanks >>>> http://www.christianforums.com/f1128/
 
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memoriesbymichelle

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while you are correct dayhiker with regards to the rules, I would like to add that this is not the everything David says is golden thread either.

I don't mind having discussions about things but if someone is just going to keep telling everyone they are wrong it does not make it very fun to post here anymore. We used to be able to agree to disagree. What happened to that? We are all different people and are never going to agree on everything regarding God's word even though we are Christians. Why do you think there are so many religions in the world today? Because people cannot agree. It does not make them wrong per se and I am frankly getting tired of not being able to post freely without fear of "that's not what God's word says" .
 
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TheyCallMeDavid

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while you are correct dayhiker with regards to the rules, I would like to add that this is not the everything David says is golden thread either.

I don't mind having discussions about things but if someone is just going to keep telling everyone they are wrong it does not make it very fun to post here anymore. We used to be able to agree to disagree. What happened to that? We are all different people and are never going to agree on everything regarding God's word even though we are Christians. Why do you think there are so many religions in the world today? Because people cannot agree. It does not make them wrong per se and I am frankly getting tired of not being able to post freely without fear of "that's not what God's word says" .

Michelle, Being mutual lovers of CHrist....you should have come to me in private if this was a problem between you and I. However , ill address it publicly now that its here : We can agree to disagree on matters....but if there is some biblical mandate/written principle/Godly instruction from Gods Word on an issue we are discussing...then shouldn't we both investigate that and strongly consider it ? Seems like we should. There are matters which the Bible has concretely told us about , then there are matters which are more neutral being a persons opinion based on subjectivity...and its that last one that we can extend a lot of grace on and agree to disagree, but not the ones where the Bible speaks to directly.

If you do not want me to interject what The Bible says on an issue that you raise, then I wont if you tell me not to. But i do think that because of our love and commitment to Gods Word of instruction to our lives, that we should be looking at it together to see what it reveals. Again, im willing to forego bringing up the Bible to accommodate you if you desire. David.
 
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memoriesbymichelle

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David, it's not the fact that you bring up the bible. The bible is our model and I take it very seriously. First off, and I mean this as lovingly as I can, do you not see how you come across in your posts? And I'm not talking about just responses to my posts, I'm talking about most of your responses.

You tell us how we "should" feel and act and you say its according to the bible, but sometimes it's more your interpretation of the bible than anything. And I have never seen you post that we should just disagree. Rather you would like to keep telling us, and schooling us, and even suggesting homework for some of us unsolicited. I am not alone.

And it would be helpful if you would say that this is how you interpret the bible instead of acting like you are speaking for God Himself which you are not.

You have some very solid beliefs. None of them are bad. But presentation is everything and the way you come across is that you know more than the rest of us about the bible and Christianity and everything basically and if we don't agree than we aren't Christian enough or whatever. I don't see any compassion in your posts or empathy or grace or mercy. That may be just me interpreting your posts wrong but that's how I feel. IMO, Jesus is my model, and with the exception of the religious leaders leading the people astray, he never went around pointing out everyone else's sin and telling them they were going to hell if they didn't believe in Him. He exemplified Himself by how He lived. He had compassion on prostitutes and immoral women and men. I just don't agree with you on that issue and never will and it doesn't make me right and you wrong or vise versa, it just makes us people that see the bible and our purpose differently.
 
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minique

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I heard many many years ago that prostitutes traveled to the super bowl looking for work. I think human trafficking is just the latest key word to use for all prostitution.

Human trafficking a.k.a sex slavery is a tremendous problem in the US and around the world, especially in developing countries. Please google the following. I haven't posted enough to link, but I had to comment because raising awareness is vital. What we don't know does have the potential to hurt us or our family members.

FBI: Atlanta a hub for human trafficking
Human trafficking brutal and widespread in Georgia
lysaterkeurst, I need your prayers

In the US, Atlanta GA is the hub for human trafficking. These girls (and boys) don't choose this lifestyle. They are kidnapped as kids or teens and forced into it.
 
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dayhiker

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minique,
Thanks for stopping by, welcome to CF.

I don't know much about Atlanta as I live near Boston. The news media here likes to broadcast anything that has to do with prostitution. In the last year there has been asian that have been raided north of Boston and south of Boston in Providence the brothels were shut down. That involved a lot of women. Now the media didn't find a single boy or girl. None was said they were a slave. If there had been one that would have been so sensation the media would have made a big deal I'm sure. But most of the woman were close to 50. There were no men at all that were in those places. So in my part of the country I don't see any sex trafficking. That's the extent of my data.
 
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minique

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minique,
Thanks for stopping by, welcome to CF.

I don't know much about Atlanta as I live near Boston. The news media here likes to broadcast anything that has to do with prostitution. In the last year there has been asian that have been raided north of Boston and south of Boston in Providence the brothels were shut down. That involved a lot of women. Now the media didn't find a single boy or girl. None was said they were a slave. If there had been one that would have been so sensation the media would have made a big deal I'm sure. But most of the woman were close to 50. There were no men at all that were in those places. So in my part of the country I don't see any sex trafficking. That's the extent of my data.

Actually, my comment wasn't meant for you per say. I meant to respond to memoriesbymichelle, so I wasn't rebutting you or anything.

Anyway, there's a difference between prostitution and human trafficking - sex slavery. I think everyone should be aware and literate about the subject. That way we will be better able to protect our daughters and sons. Remember the movie Taken with Liam Neeson. The premise is really not so far fetched. Unfortunately, it happens far too often in Atlanta. The part where Liam goes and gets revenge or vigilante justice is fictionalized, but not the part about kids-teens being kidnapped and being sold as sex slaves. I live closer to Atlanta, so I'm more aware of it, and a lot of local churches have been raising awareness about it.
 
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minique

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I just read an article that said that the event of the Superbowl has authorities worried because of human trafficking! there is still human slavery today, right in front of our eyes sometimes. I had no idea!

My comment was meant for you. I'm reposting it because I don't want you to miss it.

Human trafficking a.k.a sex slavery is a tremendous problem in the US and around the world, especially in developing countries. Please google the following. I haven't posted enough to link, but I had to comment because raising awareness is vital. What we don't know does have the potential to hurt us or our family members.

FBI: Atlanta a hub for human trafficking
Human trafficking brutal and widespread in Georgia
lysaterkeurst, I need your prayers

In the US, Atlanta GA is the hub for human trafficking. These girls (and boys) don't choose this lifestyle. They are kidnapped as kids or teens and forced into it.
 
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