• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

LDS LDS, The Father, and the Trinity

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay;

First I need to apologize I was wrong about the first time Paul wrote about his experience in 1Cor 9. It is felt Paul wrote this between 53-54 AD so maybe 20 years afterwards.

You are wrong about a lot of things. Let me show you...

1, Act 9: 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless…


Acts 26:14 “ And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.”

Hebrew tongue, didn’t mention that in Acts 9 or 22,
Irrelevant. King Agrippa was a Roman. He may or may not have known the Aramaic or Hebrew language, or that God usually spoke to his people (the Jews) in that language. Acts 9 & 22 were to fellow Jews, who did know that.

2, was it all of them fallen or just Saul falling and who was standing where?

What are you talking about?? They all fell to the ground, including Saul. No inconsistancy there. His companions may have gotten up after that and therefore "stood speechless".

Wow, big whoop!

3, It actually does not say he saw Jesus, you don’t know that until Ananias say he saw him.

Here you are just flat out wrong.

Acts 9:5 “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 10)
Acts 22:8 “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 12)
Acts26:15 “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. (No mention of Ananias. King Agrippa probably didn't know the guy, so who cares?)

4, Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Act 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

Who heard what when?

Again, flat out wrong.

Acts 9:7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone
Acts 22:9 My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.

His companions heard the voice or sound, but not know who it was. No inconsisitancy here. Move along...

5, Act 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
Act 22 & 26 There is no mention of the three days and his fasting.


So? Does not change any of the details of the other accounts, nor provide evidence of any inconsistancy.

6, 7, &8 there are several different points here
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales:


Acts 22
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.


No laying on of hands in his account and no being filled with the Holy Ghost. In the first account the scales fell away immediately in his own account it took an hour.
Laying on of hands and being filled with the Holy Spirit are unimportant to repeat. Verse 22:10:
"‘Get up,’ the Lord said, ‘and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do."
That covers that error of yours.

As for the scales, let's take a closer look:
Acts 9:18 "Immediately"
Acts 22:13 "At that very moment"
"the same hour" does not mean it took an hour. The Greek words used here mean "the same time" or "that very moment"

No inconsistancy here...

9, In Acts 9 :6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

The Lord tells Ananias what Paul’s calling is but Ananais never relays that message to Paul

Acts 22 Ananias tells Paul what is calling is

In Act 26 Paul says Jesus told him what his calling is
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,


Selecting texts out of context does not prove your point. In Acts 9:16, Jesus tells Ananais that He will "show him how much he must suffer for my name." In verse 19 "Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus". Do you think Jesus lied or do you think during the several days Saul was shown his purpose? Do you think Ananais was one of those disciples?

He doesn’t even mention being blind for three days and forgets Ananias altogether .

And why would that information be important to King Agrippa?

I could get pickyer but I think this makes my point.

Please, by all means, get pickier. I would love to show you the error of your ways.

The sad thing is, the lds have to attack the Bible in order to attempt to make their points or make their version of doctrine seem better. The Bible has stood the test of time and will continue to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToBeLoved
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You are wrong about a lot of things. Let me show you...

I don't think you understood the parody, I was pretending to be the Bible critic, If I really didn't belief Paul I would have posted every jot and title of difference. The point is Luke wasn't there he was simply relating what he had heard from others. He appears to be there with King Agrippa because he puts Paul's words in the first person.

Irrelevant. King Agrippa was a Roman. He may or may not have known the Aramaic or Hebrew language, or that God usually spoke to his people (the Jews) in that language. Acts 9 & 22 were to fellow Jews, who did know that.

But why add it, was it all that important?

What are you talking about?? They all fell to the ground, including Saul. No inconsistancy there. His companions may have gotten up after that and therefore "stood speechless".

Wow, big whoop!

They got up, they did doesn't say so


Here you are just flat out wrong.

Acts 9:5 “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 10)
Acts 22:8 “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 12)
Acts26:15 “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. (No mention of Ananias. King Agrippa probably didn't know the guy, so who cares?)

Again, flat out wrong.

In Acts 9 it only says he sees a light which blinds him until Ananias says he has seen Jesus and you think it's okay for Paul to lie about who said what?


Acts 9:7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone
Acts 22:9 My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.

His companions heard the voice or sound, but not know who it was. No inconsisitancy here. Move along...

Look at how you will dismiss a major part of the experience, were these men witnesses to the vision and voice of God or not? Put yourself in the position of a new Christian convert reading about this inconstancy in some anti Christian pamphlet.

You will believe a story with inconstancy written 2000 years ago but not a story written just 190 years ago, with lots of witnesses seems rather inconstant to me.




.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Wow, that would explain everything if it were true. But it's not. Even the versions written in his own handwriting are conflicting. That fact you cannot just explain away. He has credibility issues.



He wouldn't fully disclose it because he hadn't fully made it up yet. There are conflicts in his age, who he saw, what his purpose was for going in the woods, the dates of this supposed revivial, who he allegedly saw. Nice attempt at trying to explain it away, but the fact remains there are verifiable conflicts with his stories.



When you've got nothing else you resort to overdramatics? His testimony had little to do with his dieing and more to do with the reason he was in jail in the first place.



Odd. The Biblical view is the testimony of two or three witnesses. But you say that in order to not be deemed a fraud, he had to have inconsistant testimonies???



Again, what he spoke, wrote, and taught about "Them" is not consistant with Scripture and therefore is invalid and makes him a fraud. You would have to prove the Bible isn't true for his lie to be the truth. And you can't do that. Been tried lots of times over the years with a 0% success rate.
It has been tried lots of times over the years with a 100% success rate, and about 20% of those hearing the truth, pray and get a confirmation from God, then join the church. The Mormon church is the fastest growing world-wide church in the world. Our success rate is astonishing, and that is the facts. Most Christian churches are reporting a decrease in their numbers, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is exploding. Don't get left behind because of a few inconsistencies and lies about a persons history.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
You are wrong about a lot of things. Let me show you...


Irrelevant. King Agrippa was a Roman. He may or may not have known the Aramaic or Hebrew language, or that God usually spoke to his people (the Jews) in that language. Acts 9 & 22 were to fellow Jews, who did know that.





What are you talking about?? They all fell to the ground, including Saul. No inconsistancy there. His companions may have gotten up after that and therefore "stood speechless".

Wow, big whoop!



Here you are just flat out wrong.

Acts 9:5 “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 10)
Acts 22:8 “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied. (Ananias isn't introduced until verse 12)
Acts26:15 “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. (No mention of Ananias. King Agrippa probably didn't know the guy, so who cares?)



Again, flat out wrong.

Acts 9:7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone
Acts 22:9 My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.

His companions heard the voice or sound, but not know who it was. No inconsisitancy here. Move along...



So? Does not change any of the details of the other accounts, nor provide evidence of any inconsistancy.


Laying on of hands and being filled with the Holy Spirit are unimportant to repeat. Verse 22:10:
"‘Get up,’ the Lord said, ‘and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do."
That covers that error of yours.

As for the scales, let's take a closer look:
Acts 9:18 "Immediately"
Acts 22:13 "At that very moment"
"the same hour" does not mean it took an hour. The Greek words used here mean "the same time" or "that very moment"

No inconsistancy here...



Selecting texts out of context does not prove your point. In Acts 9:16, Jesus tells Ananais that He will "show him how much he must suffer for my name." In verse 19 "Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus". Do you think Jesus lied or do you think during the several days Saul was shown his purpose? Do you think Ananais was one of those disciples?



And why would that information be important to King Agrippa?



Please, by all means, get pickier. I would love to show you the error of your ways.

The sad thing is, the lds have to attack the Bible in order to attempt to make their points or make their version of doctrine seem better. The Bible has stood the test of time and will continue to.
You know we are not attacking the bible. We use the KJV Paul story to illistrate the point that the JS story has parallel aspects. So if you are so willing to attack the JS story for inconsistencies, you will eventually attack the bible for the same inconsistencies. I won't.

We are just willing to call an inconsistency an inconsistency without losing our faith in the bible. The bible is full of inconsistencies, but we are willing to overlook them as human error, not Holy Spirit error. The Paul story, as much as you can spin it with other translations is all fun and games, but the truth stands, that there are inconsistencies in Paul's story in the KJV.

Do I look at those inconsistencies and declare the bible to be unbiblical or untruthful, NO! The bible is the Word of God and even with it's inconsistencies I believe it.

We believe that Paul saw and heard Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus.

We believe that JS saw God and His Son Jesus Christ in upstate New York.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You know we are not attacking the bible. We use the KJV Paul story to illistrate the point that the JS story has parallel aspects. So if you are so willing to attack the JS story for inconsistencies, you will eventually attack the bible for the same inconsistencies. I won't.

We are just willing to call an inconsistency an inconsistency without losing our faith in the bible. The bible is full of inconsistencies, but we are willing to overlook them as human error, not Holy Spirit error. The Paul story, as much as you can spin it with other translations is all fun and games, but the truth stands, that there are inconsistencies in Paul's story in the KJV.

Do I look at those inconsistencies and declare the bible to be unbiblical or untruthful, NO! The bible is the Word of God and even with it's inconsistencies I believe it.

We believe that Paul saw and heard Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus.

We believe that JS saw God and His Son Jesus Christ in upstate New York.

Ya know this thing about Paul not actually seeing Jesus but only hearing a voice until Ananias says he saw Jesus is a good point. I've read anti Mormon material which claims the Book of Mormon witnesses were fooled simply by the power of suggestion, hey maybe this was an angel of light? I could write a good anti Christian pamphlet just using the same arguments they use against Joseph.
 
Upvote 0

fatboys

Senior Veteran
Nov 18, 2003
9,231
280
72
✟68,575.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So that is your answer to the two accounts of what happened being different? That it would have seemed rehearsed if the accounts were the same?
No. It's like today I was picking up some tools at harbor freight. I met a neighbor that heard about my event. He asked what happened. I told him ne of Jeffs cows had a mission before it died and that was to run over me. He asked why and do I said she was sick and I got her up and she turned on me eventually pinning me to the ground. Now could have spent more time trekking him the details but he wasn't interested in hearing anything more than what I told him. And I have shortened even more depending on where I am and how much time I have. That is my point. By the way the cow died.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You know you can flap your gums over and over again with your beating a dead horse. I have read the accounts and the audiences and individuals he was speaking to. Now I am a person who likes to tell personal experiences in detail. Sometimes I tell a event leaving out much of the details for some people and others I am quite detailed depending on their interest. For example about a month ago I was feeding some cows that a guy left for me to feed. I lease him pasture for about 130 pair of cows and calves. I had some hay he didn't want to haul 70 miles to his home. So from dec 15 I started to feed about forty head of older mature cows. This property is about 8 miles from my home and I feed the cows from the back of my pickup truck. I only fed them one bale that weighed 1800 lbs. a day. My wife drives the truck while I flake off a section at a time onto the ground. As I was feeding the cows were coming up a hill from where they were settled over night. They like standing under trees or laying down on traw I put out for them. Anyway I noticed that one cow stayed down where the cows had stayed over night. I thought to my self darn she is sick. So I finished feeding them and went to bring her up to the corral to doctor her. I drove down next to her in the truck in about a foot and a half of snow. From the time I first saw her to when I pulled up to her in the truck she had laid down. I pulled close to her thinking she would get up. She didn't move. So I opened my door which was about two feet from her fully opened. She still didn't move. So I got close to her head and she tried to bunt me with her head. So I kicked her in the head. She didn't even try. So I so I went to the side of her and slapped her on her back. She still didn't move. So I took both my hands and slapped her and kicked her in he gut. She finally stRted to get up. I grabbed her tail to help her up. When she got her feet under her in a split second turned around and pinned me up against the front fender near the still open door. She banged me a couple of times and I squeezed out towards the front of the fender where she caught me again with her 1200 lb body. I squeezed out of that one and circled to my left thinking I could get around her like I have seen the rodeo clowns do. I was not that fast with a foot and a half of snow. She caught me and threw me up into the air. I landed on my feet and kept moving but she caught me again and threw me in the air. This time I landed on my stomach face down. The cow then jammed me into the snow pushing me. At first I thought I could have made it onto the truck but now I was working my way to get under the truck but again I had to swim through the deep snow. Finally I couldn't move any more as she was still agressively smashing into the ground. I turned over onto my back and tried to kick her head but she was to far up. Then she just fell on me trapping me underneath. In the mean time my wife who was raised a city girl was out of the truck kicking her head and screaming at her to get up. I was so proud that she would risk her health for my sake. The cow however was done. She used her last bit of energy to pummel me. The cow was not moving. I told my wife to get back into the truck. She said that she was not and was going to get the cow off of me. I told her she was not going to move and I thought I could wiggle myself out from under her. It took some time but I got out. My shoulder was hurt and my leg was ached. When I got home my leg started to hurt and swell a little. I did my afternoon runs on the bus and when I got home my leg had swelled and gotten hard. Anyway $3000 later from the hospital I had compartmentalism leaking in my calf muscle.
The short version is I got molested by a cow

Does the owner of the cows pay for all this?
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
72
✟132,365.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Marital Status
Married
I'm going to throw this in;

The earliest known news paper report of Joseph first vision was written in February 1831 by a correspondent in the Palmyra Reflector. He was reporting second hand rumors he had heard so it’s full of some pretty crazy stuff that rumors are made of but it does mention Sidney Rigdon’s acceptance of the book so that shoots down the claim that he wrote it.

“Our Painesville correspondent informs us, that about the first of Nov. last,(so 1830) Oliver Cowdery, ….. and three others arrived at that village with the “New Bible,” …..that Jo Smith had now received a commission from God for that purpose, …. Smith (they affirmed, had seen God frequently and personally -- Cowdery and his friends had frequent interviews with angels, ….”

So the basic story about seeing God was known and being preached about as early as Nov of 1830.
I'm going to throw this in;

The earliest known news paper report of Joseph first vision was written in February 1831 by a correspondent in the Palmyra Reflector. He was reporting second hand rumors he had heard so it’s full of some pretty crazy stuff that rumors are made of but it does mention Sidney Rigdon’s acceptance of the book so that shoots down the claim that he wrote it.

“Our Painesville correspondent informs us, that about the first of Nov. last,(so 1830) Oliver Cowdery, ….. and three others arrived at that village with the “New Bible,” …..that Jo Smith had now received a commission from God for that purpose, …. Smith (they affirmed, had seen God frequently and personally -- Cowdery and his friends had frequent interviews with angels, ….”

So the basic story about seeing God was known and being preached about as early as Nov of 1830.
Nice report on this Painesville reporter.

The idea that the first vision would not be taught to the members of the church until around 1835 is a silly fabrication of the facts. The first vision and the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon were the 2 main elements of the early church. If is specifically because people believed in the first vision and the BOM that people joined the church. It is why they are joining the church today.

So thanks for this information.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It has been tried lots of times over the years with a 100% success rate, and about 20% of those hearing the truth, pray and get a confirmation from God, then join the church. The Mormon church is the fastest growing world-wide church in the world. Our success rate is astonishing, and that is the facts. Most Christian churches are reporting a decrease in their numbers, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is exploding. Don't get left behind because of a few inconsistencies and lies about a persons history.
No, those are your unsubstantiated, unproven claims about your church and are off topic to the thread.
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You know we are not attacking the bible. We use the KJV Paul story to illistrate the point that the JS story has parallel aspects. So if you are so willing to attack the JS story for inconsistencies, you will eventually attack the bible for the same inconsistencies. I won't.
Either knowingly or unknowingly, the lds religion attacks the Bible with things like it's lost precious truths, that the lds has the "restored" gospel, and "as far as it is translated correctly". That last one just oozes irony when compare to the BOM! In addition, if the "official" first vision account is true, then the Bible is in error and God a liar since no man has seen the face of God and lived.

We are just willing to call an inconsistency an inconsistency without losing our faith in the bible. The bible is full of inconsistencies, but we are willing to overlook them as human error, not Holy Spirit error. The Paul story, as much as you can spin it with other translations is all fun and games, but the truth stands, that there are inconsistencies in Paul's story in the KJV.

Do I look at those inconsistencies and declare the bible to be unbiblical or untruthful, NO! The bible is the Word of God and even with it's inconsistencies I believe it.

There may be differences in each of Paul's story, but certainly not inconsistencies. And certainly not to the magnitude of all the first vision accounts, whether you believe the sources or not (there are inconsistencies in JS's own first person, handwritten accounts. Tough to explain that one away!). The "facts" of JS's age, the dates of a revival, his purpose for going into the woods, who or what he saw while there, etc. are all inconsistent. You are desperately reaching if you think that compares to whether or not Paul's companions were standing or on the ground, etc. in any way alter the story.

We believe that Paul saw and heard Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus.

We believe that JS saw God and His Son Jesus Christ in upstate New York.

You are free to believe what you want, even if it is not the truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToBeLoved
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ya know this thing about Paul not actually seeing Jesus but only hearing a voice until Ananias says he saw Jesus is a good point. I've read anti Mormon material which claims the Book of Mormon witnesses were fooled simply by the power of suggestion, hey maybe this was an angel of light? I could write a good anti Christian pamphlet just using the same arguments they use against Joseph.

Only each time in Acts, Jesus identified himself. Not so with Smith's versions. There is never a "dark cloud" when Jesus appeared. In addition, this vision was independantly affirmed by Ananias, before it happened and before Paul and Ananias had even met. Not so with the Smith version.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToBeLoved
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟254,689.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nice report on this Painesville reporter.

The idea that the first vision would not be taught to the members of the church until around 1835 is a silly fabrication of the facts. The first vision and the bringing forth of the Book of Mormon were the 2 main elements of the early church. If is specifically because people believed in the first vision and the BOM that people joined the church. It is why they are joining the church today.

So thanks for this information.
Interesting. This version is not on the official lds website. Are you sure it's legit? According to the lds webiste, the 1832 account is the earliest known account.

1827 is the first year I can find where there is a reference to the first vision account, but the lds don't like those accounts.

And again, more baseless, unsubstantiated claims about your church. Is this a desperate attempt to prove your point?
 
Upvote 0

fatboys

Senior Veteran
Nov 18, 2003
9,231
280
72
✟68,575.00
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Does the owner of the cows pay for all this?
I wish. I guess I could have him go through his his farm insurance. I'll have to ask. I did bring a gun to put the cow down if it was still alive. I had a couple of neighbors feed for a few days befofpre the owner came and took them home. Even though the cow was dead I still shot her. A bit morbid but I did feel better. Lol. Just kidding.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Interesting. This version is not on the official lds website. Are you sure it's legit? According to the lds webiste, the 1832 account is the earliest known account.

1827 is the first year I can find where there is a reference to the first vision account, but the lds don't like those accounts.

And again, more baseless, unsubstantiated claims about your church. Is this a desperate attempt to prove your point?
So the things they are writing about here are not even LDS doctrine, but other stuff?

I think they need to include URL's so we can double-check everything.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So the things they are writing about here are not even LDS doctrine, but other stuff?

I think they need to include URL's so we can double-check everything.

It's really difficult to discuss things with you when you jump to conclusion, what would an article in a news paper which wasn't accurate have anything to do with Mormon doctrine? Mormon history yes but not doctrine.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It has been tried lots of times over the years with a 100% success rate, and about 20% of those hearing the truth, pray and get a confirmation from God, then join the church. The Mormon church is the fastest growing world-wide church in the world. Our success rate is astonishing, and that is the facts. Most Christian churches are reporting a decrease in their numbers, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is exploding. Don't get left behind because of a few inconsistencies and lies about a persons history.
Why don't you share with us some of these numbers that show the church is exploding? I'm sure there are studies out there that can confirm.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It has been tried lots of times over the years with a 100% success rate, and about 20% of those hearing the truth, pray and get a confirmation from God, then join the church. The Mormon church is the fastest growing world-wide church in the world. Our success rate is astonishing, and that is the facts. Most Christian churches are reporting a decrease in their numbers, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is exploding. Don't get left behind because of a few inconsistencies and lies about a persons history.
I found this part of your post about Christians being 'left behind' and wondered what this is about.

As believers in Christ, our roots are solidly in Jesus CHrist being the Son of God and salvation through Him in His blood. So how could a Christian be left behind?
 
Upvote 0