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You're going way off on a tangent, there.
Let's bring this one back in.
The church is the author and publisher of its own materials, regardless of whose presses are hired to actually produce the physical copies. Because of this, under American copyright law, the church is able to claim a copyright on anything it produces. Not only does this protect the church's material from intellectual property theft (which has, in fact, happened in the past), it also provides members with a quick way of seeing what is or is not official. All they have to do is flip to the copyright info page and see whose name is next to the (c) symbol.
If the church's name, or Intellectual Reserve, is next to that symbol, then it means the material in question is officially produced by the church. Therefore, the material is obviously officially sanctioned and officially accepted.
If you see someone else's name in the copyright, then it means that the church had nothing to do with it, regardless of who owns whatever organization that owns the copyright in question.
You see, just because the church owns something doesn't mean that the church tells it what to do. The church is actually quite demand-side when it comes to meeting the needs of its members, such that over the years it's created numerous corporations to solve problems for everyone. The church has the right to call on these companies if it needs something (for example, Deseret Book handles some of the church's print jobs), but otherwise that company has the right to operate how it sees fit. This includes BYU, which is free to publish whatever it wants to publish.
On top of this, we have organizations that are fully independent but which produce material aimed at Mormon audiences, such as Bookcraft and Halestorm Entertainment. Obviously, these people wouldn't have anything resembling an ability to dictate what is or isn't official.
Of course I am.
ok, well we will have a history lesson on them in a little bit.
but for now, again, we need the basics, like Joseph smiths false prophecies.
I have been in contact over the years with a research ministy CARM, and this is quotes of Smith's failed prophecies. following is from carm.org:
https://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith
False prophecies of Joseph Smith from allegedly inspired and official LDS literature.
(our opinions are not what matter as no one here is officials in LDS, what matters is what is actually stated in official LDS books like belows false prophecies. Iron hold already established that all print must be official (even his I suppose) see here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lds-the-book-of-mormon.7918224/#post-68878711)
- "Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed,"(Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5, 31). See context: firstly, The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple. Secondly, The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. The temple was not built at that time, this prophecy is false.
- All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See contextThis is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
- Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87). See context-The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "Not many days hence"?- For reference to January 1, 2000, it was 61,000 days (even) or 167 years, 5 days.
- Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled--"In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, s aying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context- Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."-This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras."- above quotes from CARM.org
Tanner Brody’s has some criticisms about the Book of Mormon, so I thought I would start a thread dedicated just to criticizing the book.
Tanner said; Normally all credability would have been lost after Joseph Smith's asseration that Native Americans were not Asian but decended from the lost tribes of Israel but for some reason this religion still ropes people in defiance of truth and fact
*Let’s start this off with a study published in 2014 just so you will know your information is old out dated and incorrect.
Upper Palaeolithic Siberian genome reveals dual ancestry of Native Americans.
The origins of the First Americans remain contentious. Although Native Americans seem to be genetically most closely related to east Asians, there is no consensus with regard to which specific Old World populations they are closest to. Here we sequence the draft genome of an approximately 24,000-year-old individual (MA-1), from Mal'ta in south-central Siberia, to an average depth of 1×. To our knowledge this is the oldest anatomically modern human genome reported to date. The MA-1 mitochondrial genome belongs to haplogroup U, which has also been found at high frequency among Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers, and the Y chromosome of MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and near the root of most Native American lineages. Similarly, we find autosomal evidence that MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and genetically closely related to modern-day Native Americans, with no close affinity to east Asians. This suggests that populations related to contemporary western Eurasians had a more north-easterly distribution 24,000 years ago than commonly thought. Furthermore, we estimate that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from this ancient population. …..
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24256729
A Quote;
The normal way of dealing with the Book of Mormon
"scientifically" has been first to attribute to the Book of
Mormon something it did not say, and then to refute the
claim by scientific statements that have not been proven.
Hugh Nibley
I heard about one funny debate on the radio where this guy was quoting from a book about dna and insisting it proved the Book of Moron false. The Mormon guy asked him who wrote the book and he gave the name, the Mormon replied that’s me and you’re wrong.
We do have geneticist who teach at BYU, case in point;
“Consider the case of Dr. Ugo A. Perego, a Latter-day Saint population geneticist. His genealogy confirms that he is a multigeneration Italian, but the DNA of his paternal genetic lineage is from a branch of the Asian/Native American haplogroup C. This likely means that, somewhere along the line, a migratory event from Asia to Europe led to the introduction of DNA atypical of Perego’s place of origin. If Perego and his family were to colonize an isolated landmass, future geneticists conducting a study of his descendants’ Y chromosomes might conclude that the original settlers of that landmass were from Asia rather than Italy..”
All kinds of funny things happen with dna and it’s not as simple as the anti Mormons would like you to think.
ok, well we will have a history lesson on them in a little bit.
but for now, again, we need the basics, like Joseph smiths false prophecies.
I have been in contact over the years with a research ministy CARM, and this is quotes of Smith's failed prophecies. following is from carm.org:
https://carm.org/false-prophecies-of-joseph-smith
False prophecies of Joseph Smith from allegedly inspired and official LDS literature.
(our opinions are not what matter as no one here is officials in LDS, what matters is what is actually stated in official LDS books like belows false prophecies. Iron hold already established that all print must be official (even his I suppose) see here: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/lds-the-book-of-mormon.7918224/#post-68878711)
- "Prophecy that the temple would be built in Missouri within Smith's Generation--"Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion,i which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. 3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased. 4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation. 5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house . . . 31Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed,"(Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5, 31). See context: firstly, The Mormons were driven out of Jackson County in 1833. They were not gathered there in accordance to this prophecy dealing with building the temple. Secondly, The prophecy clearly states that the generation present when the prophecy was given would not pass away until the temple was built at the western boundaries of the state of Missouri which is in Independence. The temple was not built at that time, this prophecy is false.
- All Nations would be involved in the American Civil War--"Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place. 3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations," (Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3). See contextThis is clearly another false prophecy since all nations did not get involved in the American Civil War.
- Prophesy that the earth will tremble and the sun be hidden in "not many days": "For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree," (Doctrine and Covenants 88:87). See context-The sun hasn't yet been hidden nor has the moon hidden its face.This prophecy was given on 12/27/1832. "Not many days hence"? Since the writing of this article on 6/22/06, it has been 63,364 days or 173 years, 5 months, 26 days. I think that 63,364 days is more than "Not many days hence"?- For reference to January 1, 2000, it was 61,000 days (even) or 167 years, 5 days.
- Prophecy that Isaiah 11 was about to be fulfilled--"In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, s aying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when 'they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,' but soon would come," (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40). See context- Isaiah 11:6-9 says, "And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."-This has not yet been fulfilled. The wolf is not dwelling with the lamb, the calf and the lion are not together, nor are the cow and bear grazing together. The lion is not eating straw like an ox. Nursing children are not playing in the dens of cobras."- above quotes from CARM.org
[tabbed list that doesn't break up into quotes properly]
To begin with, you're going to need a better source than CARM; few serious debaters on either side regard them as reputable, and IIRC there have been reports of cult-like behavior on their website (making them the very thing they're claiming to fight against).
That being said -
1. Building the temple: website JC Not 4 Me.com listed this example under their "Jesus, Joe, and Ed" page back in the day, noting that Ed Decker's willingness to condemn JS over this prophecy but his silence on similar statements from the Gospels represented a gross act of Christian hypocrisy.
2. Civil War: If you'll check world history, you'll see that practically ever since the 1860s there has been war somewhere in the world, meaning that war did, indeed, spill out upon all of the nations.
To begin with, you're going to need a better source than CARM; few serious debaters on either side regard them as reputable, and IIRC there have been reports of cult-like behavior on their website (making them the very thing they're claiming to fight against).
That being said -
1. Building the temple: website JC Not 4 Me.com listed this example under their "Jesus, Joe, and Ed" page back in the day, noting that Ed Decker's willingness to condemn JS over this prophecy but his silence on similar statements from the Gospels represented a gross act of Christian hypocrisy.
2. Civil War: If you'll check world history, you'll see that practically ever since the 1860s there has been war somewhere in the world, meaning that war did, indeed, spill out upon all of the nations.
so this would be your fifth contradiction I believe.
This makes it seem as if you're just picking nits at this point, looking for any excuse to write off any Mormon who knows more about the topic than what your sources do.
As we've explained repeatedly, when it comes to LDS theology and history, you'd do well to examine materials produced by the church. Not only are these considered authoritative by actual members, these works may also reveal sides of the issues that your sources don't show. In contrast, some of the supposedly "Mormon" sources cited by critics of the church come from non-official sources that frequently contain erroneous material.
That being said, nobody ever said anything about not appealing to historical events.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom,
Point is, however, that Paul definitely did say that he was determined to know nothing save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The other point of what Paul says is that he wants the gospel to convert people, not him. And the gospel is still what converts people. And it still is all that is needed---no fancy words, nothing else needed. Just Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
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