LDS teachings on God

[RevelationTestament]

If you can prove that without going to any LDS source, I'll listen.
Otherwise it's just more LDS propaganda, and doesn't prove a thing.

The Bible clearly states that God is not a man, period. He's not an "Ish" or an "Enosh" or any other such thing. Find me some source outside of any LDS book, manual, or pamphlet, or any other such thing, that even hints that God was once a man born on another world, and I'll listen to you. Convince me with some source that existed before there was a Joseph Smith.
Otherwise, I have to go on sadly thinking that you guys have bought into a strong delusion, and are believing a lie, because you have not received the love of the truth...
God is not a man.

Prove what? That God is not an "ish?" I am not trying to prove that. You are. Our scriptures prove that man shall become as Jesus is in the resurrection. Indeed, the Bible proves that. And Jesus is God.
Here is a non-LDS scripture on the subject:
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:27
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.

We are resurrected to a wholly spiritual and immortal body. I'm not sure the Hebrew even has a word for it. My guess is our spirits will not be limited to our body but will be able to perceive things outside the body. So Jesus is as a man but in a wholly spiritual and immortal state. When He appears, he will appear as a man. He will be viewed as a man like we are but in a perfected state rather than in the concept of mere mortals - "ish" or "enosh." And we know He is to be called the Eternal Father. Just when or where does the Bible say He will give up His body? You want me to prove something that is not there except for in the reality of Jesus. He reveals the Father to us. He is becoming the Father before our eyes, and yet you stubbornly cling to the idea that the Father was never a man or like Jesus at some point before the world because the Bible doesn't say so, when Jesus is showing us so - a being who was in a mortal body fashioned as a man who shall be called the Eternal Father, Isa 9:6. There you have it in black and white, and yet you scream no, no, can't be....

 

[BigDaddy4]

Let me repeat those last three verses one more time, to make sure you see them, Ran:

Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

1Samuel 15:29
He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind

Hosea 11:9b
For I am God, and not a man-- the Holy One among you.


What does God have to do...walk up and down outside of your temple, carrying a picket sign? Maybe He should write it in the sky for you...

Hey, you guys, I am NOT A MAN!!!!​

God has very plainly told us in His Word that He is not a man.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out....God is not a man.

Now what?


Edit:
Credit goes to BigDaddy for originally posting these important verses.
Thank you, BigDaddy!!

 

[BigDaddy4]

You're reading way too much into those portions you bolded.

They're saying "God does not have the follies you do."

If your god is an exalted man, please explain, in context, this verse:

Genesis 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

How can your god, an exalted man with a man's body, create a female and it be considered "in his own image"?

 

[TheBarrd]

Prove what? That God is not an "ish?" I am not trying to prove that. You are. Our scriptures prove that man shall become as Jesus is in the resurrection. Indeed, the Bible proves that. And Jesus is God.
Here is a non-LDS scripture on the subject:
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:27
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.

We are resurrected to a wholly spiritual and immortal body. I'm not sure the Hebrew even has a word for it. My guess is our spirits will not be limited to our body but will be able to perceive things outside the body. So Jesus is as a man but in a wholly spiritual and immortal state. When He appears, he will appear as a man. He will be viewed as a man like we are but in a perfected state rather than in the concept of mere mortals - "ish" or "enosh." And we know He is to be called the Eternal Father. Just when or where does the Bible say He will give up His body? You want me to prove something that is not there except for in the reality of Jesus. He reveals the Father to us. He is becoming the Father before our eyes, and yet you stubbornly cling to the idea that the Father was never a man or like Jesus at some point before the world because the Bible doesn't say so, when Jesus is showing us so - a being who was in a mortal body fashioned as a man who shall be called the Eternal Father, Isa 9:6. There you have it in black and white, and yet you scream no, no, can't be....

1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Context, context, context!

This scripture is definitely NOT teaching us that God was once a man! Far from it...in fact, it doesn't even say that God has a body of flesh and blood.
What it does say is that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Why can't flesh and blood inherit the kingdom of God?
For the very same reason that God could not possibly live in Heaven with a flesh and blood body.
Because flesh and blood are corruptible.

Your LDS "Doctrines and Covenants" don't count mean "a hill of beans". As to what it might say in there:
"Don't know. Don't care."

There is NO other source that dares to suggest that God was once a man who was born on another world.
Why not?

Because it isn't true.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Prove what? That God is not an "ish?" I am not trying to prove that. You are. Our scriptures prove that man shall become as Jesus is in the resurrection. Indeed, the Bible proves that. And Jesus is God.
Here is a non-LDS scripture on the subject:
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:27
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.

We are resurrected to a wholly spiritual and immortal body. I'm not sure the Hebrew even has a word for it. My guess is our spirits will not be limited to our body but will be able to perceive things outside the body. So Jesus is as a man but in a wholly spiritual and immortal state. When He appears, he will appear as a man. He will be viewed as a man like we are but in a perfected state rather than in the concept of mere mortals - "ish" or "enosh." And we know He is to be called the Eternal Father. Just when or where does the Bible say He will give up His body? You want me to prove something that is not there except for in the reality of Jesus. He reveals the Father to us. He is becoming the Father before our eyes, and yet you stubbornly cling to the idea that the Father was never a man or like Jesus at some point before the world because the Bible doesn't say so, when Jesus is showing us so - a being who was in a mortal body fashioned as a man who shall be called the Eternal Father, Isa 9:6. There you have it in black and white, and yet you scream no, no, can't be....

More out of context verses. 1 Cor. 15:44 is talking about humans who are born (i.e, "natural body"). Neither God the Father nor God the Holy Spirit were born with a natural body. Neither was Jesus, until he was born of the virgin Mary, as described in Isa 9:6.

There is no stubborn clinginess going on, God the Father was never a man at any point in all of eternity. Changing the Biblical text to fit your lds theology still will not make it so.

 

[Wryetui]

Heavenly Mother? Are you out there? Could someone please explain it to me? And answer my question...

 

[TheBarrd]

Prove what? That God is not an "ish?" I am not trying to prove that. You are. Our scriptures prove that man shall become as Jesus is in the resurrection. Indeed, the Bible proves that. And Jesus is God.
Here is a non-LDS scripture on the subject:
1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:27
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.

We are resurrected to a wholly spiritual and immortal body. I'm not sure the Hebrew even has a word for it. My guess is our spirits will not be limited to our body but will be able to perceive things outside the body. So Jesus is as a man but in a wholly spiritual and immortal state. When He appears, he will appear as a man. He will be viewed as a man like we are but in a perfected state rather than in the concept of mere mortals - "ish" or "enosh." And we know He is to be called the Eternal Father. Just when or where does the Bible say He will give up His body? You want me to prove something that is not there except for in the reality of Jesus. He reveals the Father to us. He is becoming the Father before our eyes, and yet you stubbornly cling to the idea that the Father was never a man or like Jesus at some point before the world because the Bible doesn't say so, when Jesus is showing us so - a being who was in a mortal body fashioned as a man who shall be called the Eternal Father, Isa 9:6. There you have it in black and white, and yet you scream no, no, can't be....

1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Context, context, context!

This scripture is definitely NOT teaching us that God was once a man! Far from it...in fact, it doesn't even say that God has a body of flesh and blood.
What it does say is that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Why can't flesh and blood inherit the kingdom of God?
For the very same reason that God could not possibly live in Heaven with a flesh and blood body.
Because flesh and blood are corruptible.

Your LDS "Doctrines and Covenants" don't count...doesn't mean "a hill of beans". As to what it might say in there:
"Don't know. Don't care."

There is NO other source that dares to suggest that God was once a man who was born on another world.
Why not?

Because it isn't true.

 

[RevelationTestament]

May I ask who gave birth to the "heavenly mother" and the "heavenly father"? Still no clue about who started it all...

There are no scriptures on a heavenly mother other than the church - the scriptural woman of 12 stars who gives birth to the man child in Revelation 12, and gives birth to us. We are reborn in baptism through the woman. Heavenly Father is not "born" any more than Christ was born as Heavenly Father. His begotten nature of the Son is by covenant with the Father - His Father. His inheritance is to be called the Eternal Father, and to inherit the holy mountains of the Father when we build the temple. Beyond that I view the concept of heavenly parents as an amorphous one. But it seems we are sealed to certain people & certain people can be destined to be our parents - our fates are intertwined and in this sense they were our spiritual parents before we were born to them here on the earth. Certain critics like to poke fun of an LDS song and to post a few quotes from some leaders on the subject of a heavenly Mother but it really is in a realm we know nothing about except I believe what I have said above.,

 

[glen55]

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

If you really want to know what Christianity is all about, the Guy you want to consult would be Jesus Himself.
He seems to think the most important "mantra" is "LOVE".

Good advice seeing that story represented the divine seed Galatians 4:26 in all people, a motif not to be worshiped or labeled which flesh must sit in silence/grace to grasped who and what we actually represent before the foundation of this world of matter/mary the soul is tutored in though it be Lord of all.

The literal wants to make the Spirit all things to their dogma not to and for all peoples and cultures that Esoterically hides these truths in legend and religious ritual/festival etc....

 

[Ran77]

You do know, I hope, that Jesus Christ existed long before His advent here on earth.
An angel came to a virgin named Mary and told her that she would have a child...now, you know that a virgin doesn't have a child unless there has been some sort of outside interference...in these modern times, she might, perhaps, be carrying a "test tube baby", but the technology for that did not exist in those days.
Anyway Jesus, The Son of God, did not have or need a human body before that point.

This really has no impact on what I posted.


If -

God was not, is not, and never will be a man.


And -

We know that Jesus was a man during His Earthly ministry.


Then -

Jesus was not, is not, and never will be God.


It's high-school level geometry. Either your statement is true and Jesus is not God or that your statement is false.

 

[TheBarrd]

This really has no impact on what I posted.


If -

God was not, is not, and never will be a man.


And -

We know that Jesus was a man during His Earthly ministry.


Then -

Jesus was not, is not, and never will be God.


It's high-school level geometry. Either your statement is true and Jesus is not God or that your statement is false.

Jesus was God in a human body. He was not a man. Unless you think that a man could:
walk on water
stop a storm
feed a crowd of thousands with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread
feel virtue going out of him
heal diseases with a touch
open blind eyes
strengthen crippled legs
straighten withered limbs
cast out demons
cure leprosy with a touch
raise the dead
etc...

I know of no man who can do such things.
Do you?

 

[drstevej]

Jesus has always been God. He took on humanity at the incarnation without ceasing to be God. Not high-school geometry, (Smith-free) biblical teaching.

 

[RevelationTestament]

If your god is an exalted man, please explain, in context, this verse:

Genesis 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

How can your god, an exalted man with a man's body, create a female and it be considered "in his own image"?

I have never said He has the body of corruptible man. That is you trying to put words in my mouth. He has a body which can appear to our eyes like that of Jesus. It has the appearance of a man, but is perfected.
So you tell me, how he "created" us in their image if we don't look like them since the creation of Adam refers to the creation of a physical body?
I would say a female still has physical features like Jesus will have when He returns - two eyes, nose, mouth, two arms, two legs, etc, and thus Elohim says she is in their "image" but in a corruptible body rather than a perfected one. Since you want context maybe you have another in mind because I don't see it. How can we be created in their image and yet you claim God is nothing like man?

 

[glen55]

I believe Glenn is saying that the Nicene Creed divides followers into "haves" and "have nots." In other words if you do not believe Jesus was begotten before all ages or worlds then you are "anathema" and not "christian." Christ said those who are for me are not against me. Just because we do not all follow with the same understanding, does not mean we are not Christian. The creeds were the start of a very earthly hierarchical structure which pitted those of the creed against other followers of Christ and eventually caused them to persecute these other followers.
But I will let Glenn speak as to whether this was indeed his intent, and what else he may have had to say.

Close enough, I would follow a Esoteric interpretation of the scripture demonized and persecuted out of the doctrine around that time, and would say they made history out of allegory and myth that taught the Christ within, and was all things to all people culturally diverse, yet telling the same inward journey, The need for a flesh and blood outward focus should be obvious to us once the spell of the literal/veil mind control that kills the spirit is removed.

And the reason they had to make boggy men out of other religions for that outward control, perverting the kingdom of God as being some far away place when it was inside each soul in tombed in flesh.

 

[Ran77]

If your god is an exalted man, please explain, in context, this verse:

Genesis 1:27

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

How can your god, an exalted man with a man's body, create a female and it be considered "in his own image"?

You're not seriously asking this are you? :o

Because that would indicate that you don't understand that man is used throughout the Bible to represent mankind / humans. It is not a gender reference in this instance.

If your argument had any validity then:


Genesis 9: 6

6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Apparently we can kill women, because this only applies to males.


Mark 2: 27

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

How unfortunate for women that the Sabbath was not made for them. I guess they miss out on all the benefits.


Mark 9: 9

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

But it would have been totally okay to tell women, just not men.


Mark 4: 23

23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

Sorry, women not allowed. Or maybe this is just indicating that women don't listen very well.


1 Corinthians 8: 3

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Just men, not women.


:o

 

[Ran77]

Jesus was God in a human body. He was not a man. Unless you think that a man could:
walk on water
stop a storm
feed a crowd of thousands with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread
feel virtue going out of him
heal diseases with a touch
open blind eyes
strengthen crippled legs
straighten withered limbs
cast out demons
cure leprosy with a touch
raise the dead
etc...

I know of no man who can do such things.
Do you?

You can make whatever statements you like, but the Bible clearly identifies Jesus as a man. Your argument doesn't even make sense; man and human mean the same thing. Look at the word human. This is just plain silliness.


Man (taken from dictionary.com)

2. a member of the species Homo sapiens or all the members of this species collectively, without regard to sex: prehistoric man.

3. the human individual as representing the species, without reference to sex; the human race; humankind: Man hopes for peace, but prepares for war.

4. a human being; person: to give a man a chance; When the audience smelled the smoke, it was every man for himself.



:o

 

[Ran77]

Jesus has always been God. He took on humanity at the incarnation without ceasing to be God. Not high-school geometry, (Smith-free) biblical teaching.

I know what I used in my post. I know the source for the format I used to present the information. As the author of that post I know that I applied simple geometry as a proof against what was previously said. So it is, without a doubt, geometry. That only leaves the question of whether a person can recognize that fact.

There's something scary about arguing against an answer given through a solid mathematical process. If I state 2 + 2 is four, will you argue against that as well?


:o

 

[TheBarrd]

I think the point is that we are created in God's Spiritual image.
I have never met a dog, or a cat, or even a chimpanzee, that concerns itself with what comes after this life.
I say my dog "loves" me...but the reality is that a dog cannot "love" in the way that a person can.

 

[Ran77]

Romans 5: 19

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Oh look, the Bible states that Jesus Christ is a man.

 

[Moodshadow]

Dunno about anyone else, but I usually get away with things that would net me a lifetime ban if I tried them in a local mainline congregation.

What "local mainline congregation?" Are you talking about an LDS ward or a Protestant congregation? If it's the latter, what do you mean by "mainline?" And with what Protestant church are you familiar that bans people, much less for a lifetime? And finally, what things are you talking about that would "net" you such a dire consequence?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my many questions; your post was rather inscrutable to me.