LDS LDS Baptism

[Jane_Doe]

For those Mormons who erroneously claim to know what Calvin taught about holiness:



If someone agrees with what Calvin taught, it isn't because Calvin was so wonderful. We follow Christ and should we find errors in what Calvin taught we will reject those errors.

There are couple of critical errors here:
1) If you follow Calvin, then by definition you are following a man and not Christ. Calvin made no claims that a person should follow him, in fact argued against anybody following any man.
2) If you then claim "I don't follow Calvin, I just follow what the Bible says through Calvin's interpretation". You're then going exactly against what Calvin argued! (Because you're following a man's intreptation of the Bible).
3) Many other people have equally studied the Bible as Cavlin and reached conflicting conclusions. To resolve this conflict of interpretations you're left with a forced "he said she said" impasse. There is zero reason to believe Calvin over any conflicting interpretation.

In summary: quit following a man.

 

[Rescued One]

Hebrews 6:12
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

1 Corinthians 1:12 (KJV)
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The wise person compares the preacher's message to the Holy Bible. If it lines up, the message is true. If not, run from it!

Of course, Mormons believe that if we believe differently than they, we are the ones in error. We don't believe Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Thomas Monson. They don't believe us. Many people didn't believe Paul or any other apostle. Many did not believe that Jesus Christ was God.

I am obligated as a believer to speak the truth. The Holy Spirit will convince some of truth. Others will ignore the word of God.

Psalm 119
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hebrews 6:12
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

1 Corinthians 1:12 (KJV)
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The wise person compares the preacher's message to the Holy Bible. If it lines up, the message is true. If not, run from it!

Of course, Mormons believe that if we believe differently than they, we are the ones in error. We don't believe Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Thomas Monson. They don't believe us. Many people didn't believe Paul or any other apostle. Many did not believe that Jesus Christ was God.

I am obligated as a believer to speak the truth. The Holy Spirit will convince some of truth. Others will ignore the word of God.

Psalm 119
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

If you choose not to believe Thomas Monson is a mouthpiece of God, that's your choice.

I don't particularly see what that has to do with you following a person who is admittedly NOT a mouthpiece of God though.

 

[Rescued One]

“This is a principle which distinguishes our religion from all others, that we know that God has spoken to us, and are fully convinced that the prophets did not speak at their own suggestion, but that, being organs of the Holy Spirit, they only uttered what they had been commissioned from heaven to declare. Whoever then wishes to profit in the Scriptures, let him, first of all, lay down this as a settled point, that the Law and the Prophets are not a doctrine delivered according to the will and pleasure of men, but dictated bv the Holy Spirit.”
- John Calvin

1 Corinthians 2
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[Jane_Doe]

“This is a principle which distinguishes our religion from all others, that we know that God has spoken to us, and are fully convinced that the prophets did not speak at their own suggestion, but that, being organs of the Holy Spirit, they only uttered what they had been commissioned from heaven to declare. Whoever then wishes to profit in the Scriptures, let him, first of all, lay down this as a settled point, that the Law and the Prophets are not a doctrine delivered according to the will and pleasure of men, but dictated bv the Holy Spirit.”
- John Calvin

1 Corinthians 2
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Do you believe 1 Corinthians 2:5, Pheobe? Is so, why are quoting the wisdom of men?

 

[Rescued One]

Do you believe 1 Corinthians 2:5, Pheobe? Is so, why are quoting the wisdom of men?

Do you ever read the Ensign or Gospel Doctrine?

 

[Rescued One]

In your theology, does a once-saved-always-saved Christian sin?

Does a Christian, who has been set free from the power of Satan that used to prevent him or her from loving God, ever sin?

Romans 7
5 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I...

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Christ never sinned. Someday we will be like Him.

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1 John 3
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We are being sanctified while on earth:

2 Thessalonians 2
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Peter 1
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Do you ever read the Ensign or Gospel Doctrine?

I believe the LDS church and it's leaders are mouthpieces of God and receivers of revelations.

Do you believe that Calvin was a prophet? Did God appear to him and tell him what to speak? If no, I ask again: why are you following the wisdom of a man, in contradictions to 1 Corn 2:5?

 

[Rescued One]

I believe the LDS church and it's leaders are mouthpieces of God and receivers of revelations.

Do you believe that Calvin was a prophet? Did God appear to him and tell him what to speak? If no, I ask again: why are you following the wisdom of a man, in contradictions to 1 Corn 2:5?

I haven't read anything by Calvin that contradicts truth. I follow Christ and compare men's sermons to scripture.

Do you believe 1 Corinthians 2:5, Pheobe? Is so, why are quoting the wisdom of men?

To teach you the truth that Calvin learned from God.

I shall go and think on things that are praiseworthy now and spend time thanking God for my numerous blessings.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I haven't read anything by Calvin that contradicts truth. I follow Christ and compare men's sermons to scripture.

If you really believe that God has no human mouthpieces on the world today, you should stop listening to men's words.

To teach you the truth that Calvin learned from God.

That 1 Corn 2:5 reminds us that we should not follow the wisdom of Calvin? Thanks!

 

[NYCGuy]

Very interesting to see LDS teaching that the God-given reason we have as humans created in God's image shouldn't be listened to. How sad.

 

[Rescued One]

If you really believe that God has no human mouthpieces on the world today, you should stop listening to men's words.


That 1 Corn 2:5 reminds us that we should not follow the wisdom of Calvin? Thanks!

My Bible says nothing about Calvin. We have preachers who study God's word and belong to the royal priesthood and share the word of God with us.

My God is an awesome God!

Psalm 119
103How sweet are your words to my taste,

sweeter than honey to my mouth!

104I gain understanding from your precepts;

therefore I hate every wrong path.

105Your word is a lamp for my feet,

a light on my path.

 

[Jane_Doe]

My Bible says nothing about Calvin.

And yet you follow Calvin and reject any other interpretation of the Bible. Why is that?

 

[Rescued One]

Your approach to what you don't like amazes me, Jane_Doe.

Here is what Mormonism teaches:

Adam was a prophet; he and Eve, his wife,
Made a wise decision that would give us life.
Adam fell that we might have the chance to be
Like our Heavenly Father through our agency.

http://www.sugardoodle.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1209

Heavenly Father loves us and wants us to return.
He blesses us with prophets who help us to learn. President Monson humbly leads God’s Church today.
As we heed his words, we’ll walk a righteous way.

http://www.jollyjenn.com/FollowTheProphet.pdf

Joseph Smith claimed:
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
Joseph Smith—History 1

 

[Jane_Doe]

Your approach to what you don't like amazes me, Jane_Doe.

The approach where I ask people questions about what they believe and why? Yep, it's amazing!

Now, why do you declare all interpretations of the Bible besides Calvin's to be wrong?

 

[Rescued One]

The approach where I ask people questions about what they believe and why? Yep, it's amazing!

Now, why do you declare all interpretations of the Bible besides Calvin's to be wrong?

Why do you falsely accuse?

Acts 17
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Why do you falsely accuse?

Are you saying that don't reject all non-Calvin interpretations of the Bible? Including the >80% of Christians that believe human action is involved in salvation and that salvation can be lost?

Or is only Calvin's once-saved-always-saved philosophy that you accept?

 

[Ironhold]

http://www.sugardoodle.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1209

http://www.jollyjenn.com/FollowTheProphet.pdf

If you're so desperate that you're having to go to these websites to get information, then I'm thinking we're looking at a dead issue.

 

[Rescued One]

Are you saying that don't reject all non-Calvin interpretations of the Bible? Including the >80% of Christians that believe human action is involved in salvation and that salvation can be lost?

Or is only Calvin's once-saved-always-saved philosophy that you accept?

You don't know what 80% of Christians believe, because you don't know who is a Christian and who isn't. You follow Joseph Smith who rejected all Christians.

Born-again Christians have an active faith. They are servants of God. Jim Elliot was a great example.

 

[Jane_Doe]

You don't know what 80% of Christians believe, because you don't know who is a Christian and who isn't.

I'm noticing that rather than address my question, you feel the need to make baseless accusations at me. I am actually very well acquainted with other Christian groups, having attended services at 3 different ones in the last 3 weeks and had thorough religious conversations with an addition 2 in that time. I am very well acquainted with different groups. When was the last time you attended a different denomination?

Anyway, back to the main issue at hand: why do you reject non-Calvinist interpretations of the Bible?