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LDS LDS Baptism
- Thread starter BigDaddy4
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Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
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A lot ... all the laws and ordinances of the "gospel" (Mormon laws and ordinances). That includes doing vicarious temple work for deceased persons.
- God gives eternal life to the obedient, Moses 5:11.
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 128
15 And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect.
Eternal Life
"To live forever as families in God’s presence (D&C 132:19–20, 24, 55). Eternal life is God’s greatest gift to man."
Eternal Life
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Rescued One
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Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
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Articles of Faith (of LDS):
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Doctrine and Covenants 130
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
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And the very next sentence of the quoted text talks about how faith is the foundational start of a Christian's life.
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Rescued One
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Look at all these guys who disagreed with you:
“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances.”
Elder Richard G. Scott, “First Things First,” Liahona, July 2001, 7; Ensign, May 2001, 7
“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 304–305
Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
"Let us make our homes sanctuaries of righteousness, places of prayer, and abodes of love that we might merit the blessings that can come only from our Heavenly Father... How might we merit this promise [spoken of in Ezekiel 36]? What will qualify us to receive this blessing?"
Thomas S. Monson, "To Learn, to Do, to Be", General Conference, October 2008
Only five years ago:
It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings are earned through a lifetime of striving, seeking, repenting, and finally succeeding.
Thomas S. Monson, The Race of Life, General Conference, April 2012
The Race of Life - By President Thomas S. Monson
“The gospel teaches us that relief from torment and guilt can be earned through repentance.”
Boyd K. Packer, The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness, General Conference, October 1995;
Boyd K. Packer, The Savior’s Selfless and Sacred Sacrifice, Ensign, April 2015, and from a devotional address, “Truths Most Worth Knowing,” given at Brigham Young University on Nov. 6, 2011. For the full address, visit speeches.byu.edu.
The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness - Boyd K. Packer
"Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life."
Robert D. Hales, "Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets", October 2007 General Conference
Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets - Robert D. Hales
Immortality connotes life without end. Eternal life, on the other hand, connotes quality of life — exaltation, the highest type of immortality, the kind of life enjoyed by God himself. It is in the attainment of eternal life, which man must earn in mortality, that he reaches his full potentiality.
Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, The Worth of Souls, October 1978 General Conference, Ensign, November, 1978, p. 14
The Worth of Souls - Marion G. Romney
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Post #246 is misrepresentative of LDS beliefs. Actual sum up of LDS beliefs:
"Matt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
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MJFlores
Active Member
@Jane_Doe
For me I could sum how to be save on Judgement Day.
#1 - Join the True Church of Christ.
#2 - Learn the commandments of God and believe
#3 - Good works - Faith without works is dead
#4 - Persevere - the one who persevere will be saved
#5 - Grow in faith, in love and in hope in Christ until
Life or the world which ever comes first.
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While I obviously disagree with you as to which church is Christ's True Church that you should join, rest of this I can very much agree with.
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I appreciate your view. Sharing similar thoughts:
Christ's True Church:
- Is lead by a living Prophet of God today.
- Obey's Christ's commandments (this does including tithing)
- Teach the doctrines found in scripture (which includes the Bible) and continues to receive scripture & revelation from God.
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Your problem here is Ecclesiastes is 12 chapters long and you have completely ignored the glaring idiom which anyone reading it could not have tripped over.
But let’s first start with Job 32:8
“But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.”
And Ecc 11
5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
The writer who I guess is Solomon acknowledges that man is more than body there is a spirit within each of us. It is with our spirit that we have being, understanding.
In Ecc 1:3 he asks a question; What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
“under the sun” is an idiom for on this earth or during the time we live under the sun which shines above.
“One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever…. The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.”
He is saying get a couple of generations away from grandpa and the new generation have forgotten all about grandpa. They think everything they are doing is knew, we can’t learn from Grandpa’s mistakes.
Chapter 3 he goes through all the things he built and the wisdom he had gained while under the sun and then says;
“Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken under the sun: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me.
And who knoweth whether he shall be a wise man or a fool?”
He is most definitely using “under the sun” to mean this life time.
His real point here can be found in chapter 5 & 8
“As he came forth of his mother’s womb, naked shall he return to go as he came, and shall take nothing of his labour, which he may carry away in his hand.”
Can’t take all your material things with you.
“There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:..”
In chapter 4 he gets doctrinal and teaches a principle.
14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
God created each of us and there is no end to our existence, to say we die and then there is nothing is to take away from it.
He see the place of judgment “under the sun” meaning a court room where men are judged, there is wickedness and righteousness there
Then he teaches
“God requireth that which is past…. God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.”
He must be in his old age and he’s looking at death wondering how he is going to be judge.
*And he says don’t men know that they will die like beast and asks an important question;
“All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
In chapter 9 which you quote he gives a parable;
14 There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
15 Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
You can do a great thing but in a little while no one under the sun is going to remember it.
Now your passage;
“4 ¶ For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”
To be alive means you can have hope for a better life here but the dead man is now cut off from those things done under the sun, we can not come back and change things. Soon we are forgotten by those who are living.
He then gives us some good advice in chapters 11 & 12
Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days…. even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.
9 Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.
10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth are vanity.
And he answers that all important question about what happens to the spirit at death;
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it…..Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
When you die your body goes to the dust but your spirit goes on living ;for what God does it shall be forever. Your spirit will return to God where it came from and be judged for the works it has done.
Now Peter tells us that the spirit of Jesus went to the spirit prison to preach to those were dead, it the don’t exist or is just wind then how or why would Jesus preach to them?
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Lol-- I don't find following Christ's commands to be a hard burden at all!
BTW: you'll never see a collection plate passed out at LDS services. All tithes are given privately so your fellow members don't know if/what you give or anything like that.
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Well naturally we have spy computer programs in every tax system in the world, and the minute you only pay 9.9% the evil Mormon cops descend on your house, burn it to the ground, and brand "slacker" on your forehead forever! Wa ha ha!!!! Evil laugh!!!
(Obviously the above is totally joking).
The real answer now: no one besides yourself honestly knows what proportion you're paying or whether or not you're robbing God (Mal 3:8-18). Following Christ's commandments (including tithing) are part of the promises we make with God when we are baptized. It's ultimately up to you whether or not you follow through with your promises with God. I honestly have no idea what/if any of my fellow congregation members pay, and it's none of my business.
The one person (other than yourself) who does have any idea if you keep your covenant in this regard is your local Bishop. And then he only knows whether or not you keep your covenants with the Lord (which includes tithing): "yes" or "no". He doesn't ask any details or go confirm what you say, or anything like that. Technically you could totally lie to him-- it's an amoral idea, but technically possible. If you are not keeping your current covenants, the bishop will then help you focus on getting to that point. After then, you can become ready to make and keep further/deeper covenants with the Lord.
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MJFlores
Active Member
A long time ago, I saw one of this slips on the sofa of a bank, must have been dropped by a Mormon member.
What are the items enumerated on the slip?
Failure to give tithes would result being called by the bishop (of Rome?) where he:
- takes no action
- reprimands
- de-fellowship (expulsion?)
- excommunicates
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(I'm answering this super short, feel free to ask for elaboration). Vast majority of these are completely optional places you can choose to donate.
Tithing -- is tithing. Used for building/maintenance of churches/temples, operating costs, etc.
Fast Offerings -- money goes to helping those in need.
Ward missionary -- helps support your local congregation missionary.
General missionary -- helps support missionaries in general.
Book of Mormon -- help print Book of Mormons
Humanitarian aide -- self explanatory.
Temple construction -- self explanatory.
Perpetual education -- a funding program to help needy individuals (particularly 3rd world) to be able to attend college.
Not excommunication or disfellowship or outward discipline. You can still fully participate, take the Lord's Supper, hold leadership positions, etc. The consequences for not keeping your promises with the Lord come directly from that. If struggling to keep the covenant you've made thus far you won't be allowed to make further ones until you're ready.
Note: the Bishop is the local leader of your congregation (~300 people). You see him every week, so it's nothing unusual to talk to him. He's also not getting paid for the service he provides the congregation, but is serving a a volunteer for a few years (~5) In fact, no one local is getting paid for anything they do with the church. Everyone has normal day jobs. I've had bishops that are realtors, doctors, tire salesmen, funeral directors, insurance, public relations, etc. My last bishop served a while, then a new bishop was called and the old one was asked to be Assistant Nursery Teacher for a time.
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I used to be a congregation finance clerk, so I can toss a few things in here as well.
If you'll note, the slip in question is a piece of NCR paper. How it works is that you fill it out, and then place the white-colored slip inside an envelope with your offering, at which point the envelope is sealed. You keep the yellow paper for yourself, and then give the envelope to a member of the clergy. This way, your offering is kept completely private; the only two mortals aside from you who know what you gave that day will be the two individuals responsible for handling the offerings at the end of the day, which will be one member of the clergy and either a second member or an authorized clerk. Yes, protocol requires two people to work together on the offerings, no more and no less.
(that being said, the slip you have is outdated; a few of the categories have since been de-listed in favor of a much larger "other" box)
Additionally, there *are* circumstances under which a person can be declared "exempt". This is handled by the bishop himself, and from what I understand involves a situation in which a person's finances are just that fouled up.
If you'll note, the slip in question is a piece of NCR paper. How it works is that you fill it out, and then place the white-colored slip inside an envelope with your offering, at which point the envelope is sealed. You keep the yellow paper for yourself, and then give the envelope to a member of the clergy. This way, your offering is kept completely private; the only two mortals aside from you who know what you gave that day will be the two individuals responsible for handling the offerings at the end of the day, which will be one member of the clergy and either a second member or an authorized clerk. Yes, protocol requires two people to work together on the offerings, no more and no less.
(that being said, the slip you have is outdated; a few of the categories have since been de-listed in favor of a much larger "other" box)
Additionally, there *are* circumstances under which a person can be declared "exempt". This is handled by the bishop himself, and from what I understand involves a situation in which a person's finances are just that fouled up.
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