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HoT-MetaL

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Hey Guys and Gals. I just posted this in General Theology but perhaps this is more appropriate.

Id like to learn more about Jewish beliefs, and Im currently re-reading the whole New Testament before I go onto Old... So... I have some questions!


I would be eternally grateful if you could answer them.


As far as I am aware Jews were mixed in their beliefs of life after death i.e. Saducee's and Pharisee's.

Why did God give them the law?

They believed in prosperity here on earth, rather than 'do this and you go to heaven' did they not?

When did this pharisee/saducee split happen?

Is it fair to say that the Jews had a relationship with God, contrary to most views, but it was a relationship of LAW.


Thanks Guys and Gals!

God Bless, metal
 

Flavius

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G-d gave the law to them because he started with the smallest and made it the biggest.But the law is for all men.You can feel it when you grocery shop when you lust after that girl,you know it's wrong but sometimes you rationalize so much that it's not so wrong anymore.You can feel it so thick in the air right before you open your mouth to gossip.
Many people believe the anti-Semitism spead about jews that they are only concerned with money.But one might say that they are very responsible seeing that every nation in the world has tried to kill them.They were Isolated when they became a nation in 48.
Statistics proove that jews have no more of a majority of rich people than any other race.
Satan has convinced the multitudes that they are all greedy nasty men when in fact their heritage prooves otherwise.Because they had instructions from the most high G-d ,they escaped the great plagues in Europe because Hashem told them about sanity in their instruction.Sadly though because they didn't get these plaugues people accused them of starting it.
You said{Is it fair to say that jews had a relationship with G-d contrary to most belief but it was a relationship of law}.............
Have you ever read-In the beggining was the word and the word was with G-d and the word was God? The word is G-d's instructions how to live that things may go well with you.David states in the psalms that G-d's Torah{law} is the tree of life and John states in Revelations that the leaves of the trees by the river will be for the healing of the nations.Yeshuah{Jesus} also states elsewhere{I did not come to do away with the law and everyone who keeps the law and teaches others to will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven and those who do not keep the law and teach others not to will be the least in the kingdom of heaven.
I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone however some might take offense and I am not trying to offend you.It's just that we gentiles were raised with anti-semitic beliefs,I know I was until I learned better.The majority of people have pre-concieved ideas about the jews and how they killed christ.But he gave his own life and nobody took it from him.And because of some of their blindness we have an oportunity to be saved as well as gentiles.I think they did an excellent job seeing that all the burden was put on them alone.Thousands died just because they respected the law and G-d so much that they wouldn't even fight back when attacked on the Sabboth.If you truly are seeking to learn about Jewish roots,You should learn what Sukkot and all the appointed times because when you do,It's like coming home.

:clap:
 
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visionary

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I am a sojourner in the land of Israel, or as someone pointed out IS REAL. I have too learned that the old Testament and new Testament are the same but with a spiritual insight that Jesus and then the Holy Spirit instructed us on. God is the same from beginning to end. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

I am learning, new in this light which is the truth, through Jesus in the Old testament and New testament. The perfect harmony, is marvelous in the light of the truth. Cleaning out the worldly wisdom, the religious traditions, the pagan fables, and seeing the kingdom of God as he intended it. We are all learning, and by the grace of God we will receive more blessings in the walk with Jesus.

MAy God bless you in your walk as you walk farther from the world and its ways and walk closer to the way, the truth, and the light as it is in Jesus. MAy the Llord come upon you with gifts of insight, discernment, and spiritual strength to walk there in.
 
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HoT-MetaL

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Oops, sorry if I offended anyone - Im in no way anti-semetic! I think you got the impression I was calling you greedy by my prosperity comment, sorry if I offended you, I didnt mean that at all - I was wondering why, if some jews believed in no heaven, are you jews? Is it because of a prosperity here on Earth teaching? that is what my knowledge pointed me to!

Thanks for answering my questions, but one still remains...

How did the split between saducees and pharisees come about? Why did some believe in heaven after death, and some didnt?


God Bless, metal.
 
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Henaynei

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The Sadukhim were Temple based and all of Judaism was essentially one "sect" until the Babylonian Dispersion. When the people found themselves without a Temple there arose teaching on how to perserve Judaism, how to obey G-d, when access to the Temple was impossible - no mean feat. Because of this split we who serve Messiah are blessed. If they had not figured out to preserve Judaism without access to the Temple Judaism would have (nearly did any way) in Babylon, there would have been no Messiah and we would all be speaking arabic.

The P'urshim developed a body of faith that included the creation of the synagogue as the center of community observance and the transferance of the Temple rituals into forms that now exist in the synagogue service and in personal practice (thrice daily prayer = thrice daily Temple sacrifices and are named for those sacrifices, etc..)

These two divisions were the only divisions for quite a while after the return from Babylon and even until the destruction of the Temple in 70CE (a curse upon the agressors!) the vast majority of Judaism could be classed in to one or the other of these divisions.

Once the Temple was destroyed (a curse upon the destroyers!) the Sadukhim sect died out for there has been no Temple for 2000+ years. Therefore the P'rushim "won the day" and have become normative Judaism.
 
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Henaynei

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As my focus is turned once again toward the instruction of G-d concerning the Counting of the Omer I am once again reminded that when the Temple is rebuilt the Saudkhim, or some revision thereof, will likely rise again for there will have to be wide reaching changes in what today is normative practice when the Temple system is reinitiated. It will even have to include drastict changes in the practive and observance in the home ;)

It will be interesting to watch THAT shake out!!
 
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torahlife

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Hotmetal,
You wrote,
>>>>>Id like to learn more about Jewish beliefs, and Im currently re-reading the whole New Testament before I go onto Old... So... I have some questions!<<<<

This is a grave mistake. Because the NT was written as an addition, response and commentary on the TaNaKh (OT) one has no foundation in which to discern the NT without first gaining a thorough understanding of G-d and what the messianic expectation was.

I know it's a common practice by well'doers to suggest one to read the NT first, but that comes from the presumption that the OT was "done away with". We learn the nature, character, knowledge of G-d through the OT. This is our introduction to the G-d we worship. Without knowing the G-d of the OT we cannot know Yeshua. Yeshua teaches from the words of G-d from the OT. He did not teach a "new thing" as presumed by those who haven't first read the words of G-d as found in the TaNaKh. By the time you get to the NT you should be able to read it and remember where that principle and teaching was found in the OT. So, I'm encouraging you to start from the beginning and work foreward instead of working backwards.

You said,
<<<<<As far as I am aware Jews were mixed in their beliefs of life after death i.e. Saducee's and Pharisee's.

Why did God give them the law?

They believed in prosperity here on earth, rather than 'do this and you go to heaven' did they not?

When did this pharisee/saducee split happen?

Is it fair to say that the Jews had a relationship with God, contrary to most views, but it was a relationship of LAW.<<<<<


Yes, the Jewish people practiced diverse beliefs. They not only disagreed on the afterlife, but on their daily lives as well. The Essenes removed themselves from the city and lived in a remote area and lived lives of strict halachah because they rejected the corrupted temple practices and priesthood. There is evidence of approx 20 + splinter groups within Judaism. It's no different than the many denominations within christianity today. Messianic Judaism has many splinter groups today as well. So there's much more than just the Pharisee/Sadducee split. The split between these last two would have occured at some time after the rebuilding of the second temple under Ezra and Nehemiah's revival and 60 BC when the Romans invaded. The temple priestood (Sadducces) was established under Ezra and Nehemiah whereas the proto Pharisees were given the job to instruct the people in Torah. During that 200 year timespan their positions in society evolved and were defined into what we find in the NT.

Why did G-d give them the Law? Give who? He gave His people whom He chose from all the peoples on the earth to be His chosen and treasured possession.

>>>>Deu 7:6 For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God. Jehovah your God has chosen you to be His own treasure out of all the people on the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 Jehovah did not set His love on you or choose you because you were more in number than any people, for you were the fewest of all peoples.
Deu 7:8 But because Jehovah loved you, and because He kept the oath which He swore to your fathers, Jehovah has caused you to go out with a strong hand, and redeemed you from the house of slaves, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deu 14:2 For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God; and Jehovah has chosen you to be a people to Him, a special treasure out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Eschetology in the tanakh does not deal with heaven per se as a place in the clouds, but as a redeemed earth. So the Jews did concentrate on the here and now as the focus is on G-d once again living amongst man as in the Garden of Eden. The diverse groups interpreted this differently and practiced their belief accordingly (Gnosticism, Docetism, esceticism, oral torah, etc). But the focus was on the earth. As far as the NT goes, heaven is a temporary place as those who died will once again live on the earth under the reign of Yeshua. Resurrection is for the purpose of living once again here on earth in an uncorrupted physical body.

Of course the Jews had a relationship with G-d, mabie not according to someone elses standard, but it was the standard they set for themsleves. It's unfair for us to judge their religious experience as that was between them and G-d. Yeshua dealt harshly with some of them as they were putting their high standard on others and Paul dealt with this issue a lot in the growing churches as everyone was judging other's practices because each thought theirs was the right way while condemning others. What did Paul say," Each one needs to do what he is convinced of". So it's not for us to judge whether the Pharisees and Sadducees had a true relationship with G-d or not. Just because someone is legalistic in his observance doesn't disqualify him from eternal life. He's just making it hard on himself.

Once you are well studied in Torah you will understand that grace in not a new concept or character trait of G-d.


Blessings on your journey,
torahlife
 
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