Law vs Grace

[BobRyan]

We are under the New Covenant, such that we will only be judged by faith/Grace alone in terms of judgment

I agree with a lot of your post -- but we find 'saved by grace' not "judged by grace" in these texts

Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

2 Cor 5: 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Rom 2: 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Rom 2:
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[Sidon]

I keep quoting Paul in his Romans 2 and Rom 3:19-20, 31 statements and you keep referencing the text of Paul in those cases only to indicate how opposed you are to the mere quote of it.

Bible details matter

Do i need to respond to it 10 more times?
Will that help you?
But i'll just say this, again, Romans 3:19 is talking to someone who is not saved, and is still under the law.
You keep posting this same verse, describing yourself.
Ok.
But this verse does not describe the born again, who are "not under the law, but under Grace".

 

[Sidon]

those are just Bible texts being quoted



Then at that point you need to deal with the text itself

Rom 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed

Yes, i understand that you are continually defining yourself as being "under the law".
All unbelievers are "under the law".

Whereas the born again, are... "not under the Law......but under GRACE".

 

[Sidon]

No matter how many lost people there are in the world Rom 3:31 "still exists"

Yes.
Paul says that the born again now establish the law.
This is not the old covenant, of law keeping, this is the new life in Christ, that is the born again established as MADE RIGHTEOUS< by The Blood of Jesus.
This is what is "ESTABLISHED". = "under Grace".
This is the "law" for the born again.

 

[Sidon]

All we need to do is to focus on faith in Christ, this way our sins will gradually be gone as faith increases.

Have you heard of "the Cross"?
Did you know that God shed His blood on the Cross and Died?
Do you know why?
This 'why" is where and how "sin" was dealt with 2000 yrs ago......as there is no other way. John 14:6

So, Christ has your sin, or you do.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
No matter how many lost people there are in the world Rom 3:31 "still exists"

Yes.

And it reads --
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Paul says that the born again now establish the law.

Does not say "now establish" because Paul said "there is only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 and that THAT "Gospel was preached to Abraham" - saved by grace through faith.

Which explains how it is that Moses and Elijah stand in glory WITH Christ in Matt 17 before the cross even happened.

This is not the old covenant, of law keeping, this is the new life in Christ, that is the born again

I have to be frank and admit that I am a little surprised to see you get a post almost entirely correct.

Gal 3 tells us that the purest form of the old covenant is "OBEY AND LIVE" and as I have pointed out to you repeatedly - Rom 3:19-20 says of that same Rom 3:31 LAW , that by it all mankind on earth is condemned who have not accepted that "one Gospel" preached to Abraham.

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Have you heard of "the Cross"?
Did you know that God shed His blood on the Cross and Died?

So you have accepted scripture in regard to that?

 

[Sidon]

And it reads --
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Yes, as ive told you now 4 times.
its the establishment of the Law of Faith. Not the reestablishment of Moses Law.

 

[Sidon]

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

So you have accepted scripture in regard to that?

Keeping the law and commandments......is this how you Trust Christ and God receives your faith to give you the New Birth?

No.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."

So you have accepted scripture in regard to that?

Keeping the law and commandments......is this how you Trust Christ .

From your response I take it your answer to the question above is "no" and you then apparently go on to condemn that part of the Word of God.

Have you thought that through??

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Yes, as ive told you now 4 times.
its the establishment of the Law of Faith. Not the reestablishment of Moses Law.

For those that read "the entire post" before responding to the point - we see that Paul tells us that the Law being "established" in Rom 3:31 is the one in Rom 3 vs 19-20 that condemns the entire world and defines what sin is. Paul reminds us in Eph 6:1-2 that the law above includes the TEN having "Honor your father and mother" as "the first commandment with a promise"

No wonder both Christ (Matt 19) and Paul (Rom 13) quote from the Law of Moses when speaking about the Commandments of God

 

[Sidon]

From your response I take it your answer to the question above is "no" and you then apparently go on to condemn that part of the Word of God.

Have you thought that through??

There is the fact of Salvation. This is God on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago.
Salvation was created 2000 yrs ago.
If a person wants to become reconciled to God, then the Salvation that God earned as Christ on the Cross, is given to them, as their "Justification by Faith". They become born again. They now have Eternal life, because Jesus who IS Eternal life, is now in them, and they are in Him.

Now, this person, has become a Disciple.
And discipleship is to do this..."work out your salvation"....
And the way you work that out is to learn to function within the spiritual principles that operate the Kingdom of God.
And the reason the born again do this, is because they now exist IN the KOG, and the KOG lives in them.

 

[Sidon]

No wonder both Christ (Matt 19) and Paul (Rom 13) quote from the Law of Moses when speaking about the Commandments of God

Lets post some more Paul.
Here is one.

Galatians 5:4

"If you try to be justified by the LAW, you are fallen from Grace".


BobRyan, You dont spend any time in Galatians.
you should.
A good bit of it was written for people like you.

 

[pescador]

You're either under the law or your under grace. It's that simple.

 

[Sidon]

You're either under the law or your under grace. It's that simple.

If you are not born again, then you can't be "under Grace".

If you are born again, then you can be both..

If you are born again, and "under the law", then you are FALLEN from Grace.
See that?
And in that case, you are "in the flesh", operating in the natural mind, and Paul says you are "bewitched".