Law of sin and death?

visionary · May 11, 2019

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away?? It should have been written with a question. Which glory is done away with .. the engraved stones or the face of Moses?? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

pinacled · May 11, 2019

LoveofTruth said:
2 Corinthians 3:6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13.And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”

As clear as it gets to the unbiased reader

Jesus Taught Against the Law of Moses | Jewish Voice Ministries International

[ 'It is unfortunate that nearly two thousand years after He came, we have a Jesus who is nearly devoid of any Jewish identity and a Church that is almost completely severed from its Jewish roots. Although this was never God’s intention, it started very early in Church history. It began with a movement away from celebrating Shabbat (the Sabbath) and the other biblical Feasts and calling these observances heretical. And so today, we have a Jesus who is not recognizable to His own Jewish People as the Messiah of Israel.]

Rabbi Bernis states:
This comes from the fallacy that Yeshua taught against the Law of Moses. This lie emerged largely as a result of an overemphasis of being under the Age of Grace, the Church Age. However, Jesus never taught against the Law, the Torah. He followed and taught the Law. While Yeshua redefined the Law and taught how to rightly interpret it, He lived and died as an observant Jew in Israel. Jesus said: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17 TLV). Some believe that “fulfill” means “to bring to conclusion” or “to complete,” but this is incorrect. In this context, it is best understood by reversing the syllables of the word “fulfill.” Doing so more clearly reveals the meaning “fill full” or “bring fullness to.”

Tone · May 11, 2019

visionary said:
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away?? It should have been written with a question. Which glory is done away with .. the engraved stones or the face of Moses?? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

So you're saying that the temporal aspect being spoken of was the temporal man (his face) who passed away?

Mercy74 · May 11, 2019

Tone said:
So you're saying that the temporal aspect being spoken of was the temporal man (his face) who passed away?

Yeshua was circumcised on the 8th day, Moses put a veil to hide his face. It is the glory of G-d to conceal a matter (Proverbs 25:2).

Mercy74 · May 11, 2019

visionary said:
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away?? It should have been written with a question. Which glory is done away with .. the engraved stones or the face of Moses?? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Moses destroyed the first tablets of stone in his anger. Moses carved second tablets of stone, YHWH used his finger to write the 10 commandments. Although the first tablets were abolished by Moses in his anger, the same exact law would be written on their hearts. YHWH wrote the law again on tablets made by Moses from stone. Moses carved out of stone, where the law would be written. Israel had hardened her heart.

Tone · May 11, 2019

pinacled said:
Good morning,
Interesting response with Caleb being an old wine skin. That's a possible perspective considering the past history of the tribe of yhdh even till Yeshua.

The altars for tribes are mentioned yet without a list of tribes involved. One could assert it is the 12 or rather 11 arranged and encamped around the mishkan. I speak of the 12 as 11 because of the two half tribes bringing a different count.
Which will be shown later in history.
Here is a visual of the altars.
_ _
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
Do you recall the tribes listed in the encampment?

Good morning and Shabbat Shalom!:

(4:00 for full diagram)

*So, two altars per direction...plus the center (Levites)?

Mercy74 · May 11, 2019

visionary said:
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away?? It should have been written with a question. Which glory is done away with .. the engraved stones or the face of Moses?? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

The first tablets of stone were provided from YHWH, the second tablets Moses carved from earthen stone.

Tone · May 11, 2019

Try this again...

Tone · May 11, 2019

Tone said:
*So, two altars per direction...plus the center (Levites)?

Something like that? With the dots lined up and the cursor line gone, of course...

Tone · May 11, 2019

Or:

*dang dots don't wanna line up...

Tone · May 11, 2019

I think the first configuration would be more practical.

visionary · May 11, 2019

Mercy74 said:
The first tablets of stone were provided from YHWH, the second tablets Moses carved from earthen stone.

Yes, but God wrote on both.

Mercy74 · May 11, 2019

visionary said:
Yes, but God wrote on both.

Yes indeed, but Moses had to carve out tablets of stone the second time. Israel had hardened her heart.

visionary · May 11, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Yes indeed, but Moses had to carve out tablets of stone the second time. Israel had hardened her heart.

And what has that to do with anything on the discussion. I am not disagreeing with you. Just don't see the relationship with the thread. One other point is the little change between what was written on the two.. In the first, God is Lord of the Sabbath as Creator. In the second, God is the redeemer and keeping the Sabbath helps you to remember that. Exodus 20:1–17, and then at Deuteronomy 5:4–21.

Mercy74 · May 11, 2019

visionary said:
And what has that to do with anything on the discussion. I am not disagreeing with you. Just don't see the relationship with the thread. One other point is the little change between what was written on the two.. In the first, God is Lord of the Sabbath as Creator. In the second, God is the redeemer and keeping the Sabbath helps you to remember that. Exodus 20:1–17, and then at Deuteronomy 5:4–21.

Paul the Pharisee writes about being delivered from the law of sin and death. The Romans crucified Yeshua with sinners; the law from sin and death. Paul was a Roman citizen who appealed to Ceasar, he was thrown in jail without criminal charge. Some have suggested that the glory of Moses has been done away; those first tablets of stone were abolished. The law would be written on their hearts. YHWH wrote again the law on tablets that Moses carved out of earthen stone. Israel had hardened her heart (Ezekiel 11:9).

visionary · May 12, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Paul the Pharisee writes about being delivered from the law of sin and death. The Romans crucified Yeshua with sinners; the law from sin and death. Paul was a Roman citizen who appealed to Ceasar, he was thrown in jail without criminal charge. Some have suggested that the glory of Moses has been done away; those first tablets of stone were abolished. The law would be written on their hearts. YHWH wrote again the law on tablets that Moses carved out of earthen stone. Israel had hardened her heart (Ezekiel 11:9).

As you say, some suggested. Have you separated the Law of Righteousness from the law of sin and death?

Mercy74 · May 12, 2019

visionary said:
As you say, some suggested. Have you separated the Law of Righteousness from the law of sin and death?

Romans 3:21

visionary · May 12, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Romans 3:21

As it says apart from the law of righteousness, this is where mercy steps in... but there still is the law of righteousness, do you know it? Are you seeking God's righteousness? You have to know the law in order to abide within it.
Romans 10:3
For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

visionary · May 12, 2019

You have to understand...
Romans 9:31
But that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.

Remember that Yeshua said...

Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:15
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Mercy74 · May 12, 2019

visionary said:
As it says apart from the law of righteousness, this is where mercy steps in... but there still is the law of righteousness, do you know it? Are you seeking God's righteousness? You have to know the law in order to abide within it.
Romans 10:3
For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

Yes indeed, the law is good as long as it is used lawfully. The law is holy and good, the law is intended to give life (Romans 7:10).

Law of sin and death?

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

walking with the Shekinah

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Mercy Messianic Judaism

Mercy Messianic Judaism

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Mercy Messianic Judaism

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

"Whenever Thou humblest me, Thou makest me great."

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Mercy Messianic Judaism

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Mercy Messianic Judaism

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Mercy Messianic Judaism

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

Mercy Messianic Judaism

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