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Law, Grace, Kingdom

expos4ever

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Jesus said Moses gave the Law. You are free to promote another gospel if you like.
You appear to be free to spread untruths - is that your gospel? I never posted anything that denies that Moses gave the Law. And of course, in the course of declaring something entirely false, you evade my point which is that the category "the commandments of God" have no necessary connection to the Law of Moses.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (The soul that sins shall die) 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

"The soul that sins (Steals) shall die." That is the Letter of the Law God gave the world through Moses that holds a Sinner. That is the LAW men need delivered from "being dead wherein they are held".

It's absurd to preach to others that God delivered you from or you "needed" to be delivered from "Thou shall not steal".
How, exactly, does this justify taking "released from the Law" and making it mean "released from the consequences of following the Law, yet still needing to obey it"? This sentence of yours does not even make sense: "That is the LAW men need delivered from "being dead wherein they are held"

You appear to be saying that we need the law because it "delivers us from death". But that is not what the words actually say. Here is Young's Literal Translation:

and now we have ceased from the law, that being dead in which we were held,

What is the thing we are held in and causes our death? Even though the wording is odd, I suggest it is clearly the Law that "holds us in death".

Besides, when we consider what Paul goes on to say, it becomes clear that the Law indeed contributes to "death":

But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [m]coveting of every kind; for apart [n]from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart [o]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was [p]to result in life, proved [q]to result in death for me;

I will be fascinated to see how you work this text into your position - how can anyone possibly deny that, while sin is the main agent of Paul's death, the Law also participates. Will we see more redefinition of the meanings of words?

As for your last statement:

It's absurd to preach to others that God delivered you from or you "needed" to be delivered from "Thou shall not steal".

This fundamentally begs the question precisely because you simply assume that the only way I can know that it is wrong to steal is via the Law of Moses. Of course, that is not Biblical - as Paul says, we have the Spirit to guide us now. And before the Law was given, people still knew right from wrong.
 
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Soyeong

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@Soyeong;

Sorry about calling out. I only have a couple of months of experience with an experiential relationship and I still fail and I'm not as kind as I should be.
That is alright, I did not see you as being unkind. If anyone was as kind as they should be, then they wouldn't have any room to grow in kindness, which would be a shame. If I had recently come to believe in righteousness by faith, then that would indeed by a good thing to highlight, however since that is a position that I have consistently held, it makes me think that you must have misunderstood my posts, hence why I was curious about what I specifically said that made you think that it was recent, especially when my first post in your righteousness by faith thread spoke in regard to what it means to have righteousness by faith. We can discuss that topic more in that thread.
 
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Studyman

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Apples and oranges. No one will deny that "the Law" here means the Law of Moses:

Romans 5:13

To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law

On the other hand, when scripture refers to "commandments of God", we all know that this category does not necessarily contain the Law of Moses: the command to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a command from God and it is certainly not in the Law of Moses. And neither is Jesus's command to not lust after a woman in your heart.

These examples alone prove that the category "the commandments of God" could, repeat could, entirely exclude the Law of Moses.



How far back do you want to go? I suppose Satan is a created being so he could not have been there at the very beginning. Was he in the garden of Eden? Yes.

They sinned - they broke a command of God. But, and there is no debate here: the command was not part of the Law of Moses. Question answered.

In my religion? What religion is that? The one that does not suit your personal tastes, I imagine.

The Law of Moses may well have existed in God's mind before Sinai, but it was not given to the people till Sinai. Are you going to claim that people intuitively knew about this law, from the Law of Moses, before Moses?

Yes, it is obvious that God's Law that HE gave to Abraham and then to Moses was in His Mind before HE gave it to them. And no, people didn't "intuitively knew about this law", otherwise there would be no need for the Gospel.


You are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel

Strawman - did I ever claim that God did not issue commands before Moses? Of course not. The problem, of course, is that you will not accept the plain fact that some of God's commands do not fall under the umbrella of the Law of Moses.

It seems you have been misled regarding God's Word, as was prophesied by the Jesus of the Bible. It is Biblically correct to say "Your problem, of course, is that you will not accept the plain fact that ALL of Moses and the Prophets falls under the umbrella of the Laws of God."

Would Paul not say, "Does God care about fabric, or sayeth HE these things for our sakes? For Our Sakes no doubt this is written". Perhaps you might consider Glorifying God "As God", and not someone who needs judged or corrected by you, and pray for forgiveness. Maybe HE will have mercy and reveal to you what these words Mean.


Sure it would be. But, again, not part of the Law of Moses.

Again, because you don't take the warnings of the Jesus of the Bible seriously, you are misled by this world's religions as to the Scriptures.

Eve broke the first and Greatest Commandment in the Law, and offered to others the same sin, which is in violation of the 2nd Greatest Commandment. She stole that which was not hers. She coveted after that which was not hers, she caused the death of a life, she disobeyed her father.

So if you were in the garden today, these same Laws of God would be there are well.

Are up for some slaughtering of Amorites?

2 Cor. 10: 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (The Law and Prophets are Spiritual) 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

So yes, I work to slaughter every Amorite/Pagan thought that comes into my mind.
Are you going to build an ark?

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Yes, I and My Lord are building an Ark to protect me from this evil world.

Are you going to build a temple per the specifications that God gave to Solomon?
Again, because your knowledge is from man and not God, you are misled. God never gave Solomon a command to build Him a House made of wood and stone. And God didn't give Solomon specification of how to build this man-made shrine of worship.

This is the point of the Love I am sharing with you, in the hopes you might turn away from the religions of this world you are promoting and turn to the God of the Bible, and His Son, the Jesus of the Bible, in repentance. Then perhaps you might be allowed to understand the significance of the story about King Solomon.

It is painfully obvious that God give some commands to certain people or groups and that those commands are not eternal.

Is the Law of Moses for all humanity? Of course not, it is for the Jews only. Otherwise, it would make no sense for Paul to write this:

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from works [y]of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also

No person with a lick of sense would write these words unless they believed the Law was for Jews only.

Again, you are promoting a religion which implies that God is a respecter of persons, only giving HIS Laws to men born of a certain DNA, who then slaughters thousands of non-Jewish men for disobeying Laws you preach to the world wasn't even written for them. If only you could humble yourself just a little, and actually consider the actual Words of the Christ you claim to serve.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What you don't understand is that the children of the devil, the Pharisees, had created their own religion, but still promoted their version of the Levitical Priesthood which required sacrificial "Works" before Sin could be forgiven. They, like you, are deceived. Jesus tells us why.

John 5: 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And again;

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Proverbs is not part of the Law of Moses. Nice try, though.

Prov. 6: 24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Matt. 5: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

In the religion you have adopted, is the Rock, the Holy One of Israel who Inspired these Words in Proverbs, not the Same Christ who Spoke the Same Words in Matthew?

For me they are the same Christ.

Here is how the Jesus of the Bible Loved those who promoted falsehoods about His Father's Word.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
 
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