Land expropriation without compensation begins in South Africa

[Quid est Veritas?]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818

The State has submitted the paperwork and sent out writs to seize the first farms without compensation. One of which is a R200 million Game farm and safari lodge.

Afriforum, an Afrikaans civil rights group and union, has begun the process to contest it in court. A list of 125 farms has been issued to be seized, but so far only the first 2 received notification.

The mood is dark. Many prophesy that the farmers on those 125 farms will now sell off everything not nailed down, and if this continues, the banks that hold the loans on such farms will have to write them off. Many expect an economic apocalypse if the courts don't manage to hold the line.

 

[Tom 1]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818

The State has submitted the paperwork and sent out writs to seize the first farms without compensation. One of which is a R200 million Game farm and safari lodge.

Afriforum, an Afrikaans civil rights group and union, has begun the process to contest it in court. A list of 125 farms has been issued to be seized, but so far only the first 2 received notification.

The mood is dark. Many prophesy that the farmers on those 125 farms will now sell off everything not nailed down, and if this continues, the banks that hold the loans on such farms will have to write them off. Many expect an economic apocalypse if the courts don't manage to hold the line.

Is much of the land likely to end up in the hands of politicians and their friends, or is some sort of redistribution likely?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

A game farm and safari lodge... that doesn't make sense. Like, that's a big money draw in of itself for tourism.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Is much of the land likely to end up in the hands of politicians and their friends, or is some sort of redistribution likely?

The farms bought under the willing buyer willing seller used till recently, were either redistributed to traditional leaders or broken into non-viable small plots and the farms largy collapsed; or ended up in the hands of Black Economic Empowerment groups and come to be possessed by a small coterie of businessmen aligned with the government - amongst which the current president, Ramaphosa, notably.

So far, few of the previous schemes that had been done willingly, were anything but economically ruinous for the farms involved. It does not bode well.

 

[dqhall]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818

The State has submitted the paperwork and sent out writs to seize the first farms without compensation. One of which is a R200 million Game farm and safari lodge.

Afriforum, an Afrikaans civil rights group and union, has begun the process to contest it in court. A list of 125 farms has been issued to be seized, but so far only the first 2 received notification.

The mood is dark. Many prophesy that the farmers on those 125 farms will now sell off everything not nailed down, and if this continues, the banks that hold the loans on such farms will have to write them off. Many expect an economic apocalypse if the courts don't manage to hold the line.

Zimbabwe was returning farms to owners who had their lands unjustly seized by the previous government:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-farmer-returns-to-seized-land-idUSKBN1EF2US

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

A game farm and safari lodge... that doesn't make sense. Like, that's a big money draw in of itself for tourism.

It cannot be redistributed either. It needs to be kept a block as a going concern - so will likely end up in a government crony or traditional kinglet's possession. It is far from a large population centre, and largely marginal land - so to convert it into smaller plots or away from Game, would be silly and very expensive.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Zimbabwe was returning farms to owners who had their lands unjustly seized by the previous government:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-farmer-returns-to-seized-land-idUSKBN1EF2US

Yes because you can just pick up where you left off? Since everything would be so well maintained...

Zimbabwe is a basket case today, while it used to be a breadbasket.

 

[Tom 1]

The farms bought under the willing buyer willing seller used till recently, were either redistributed to traditional leaders or broken into non-viable small plots and the farms largy collapsed; or ended up in the hands of Black Economic Empowerment groups and come to be possessed by a small coterie of businessmen aligned with the government - amongst which the current president, Ramaphosa, notably.

So far, few of the previous schemes that had been done willingly, were anything but economically ruinous for the farms involved. It does not bode well.

Grim stuff

 

[LaSorcia]

Legalized theft is still theft.

 

[FireDragon76]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818

The State has submitted the paperwork and sent out writs to seize the first farms without compensation. One of which is a R200 million Game farm and safari lodge.

Afriforum, an Afrikaans civil rights group and union, has begun the process to contest it in court. A list of 125 farms has been issued to be seized, but so far only the first 2 received notification.

The mood is dark. Many prophesy that the farmers on those 125 farms will now sell off everything not nailed down, and if this continues, the banks that hold the loans on such farms will have to write them off. Many expect an economic apocalypse if the courts don't manage to hold the line.

South Africa should remember what happened to France after the Hugenots were forced to leave... it lead to economic disaster that lead to the French revolution.

 

[Desk trauma]

South Africa should remember what happened to France after the Hugenots were forced to leave... it lead to economic disaster that lead to the French revolution.

No need to reach that far back into history when we have the very similar and contemporary case of Zimbabwe and their land "reform" debacle.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Zimbabwe was returning farms to owners who had their lands unjustly seized by the previous government:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-farmer-returns-to-seized-land-idUSKBN1EF2US

When even Zimbabwe has started to realise how stupid the farm grabs were, you have to wonder how insane the South African government is to pursue the same policy.

Although agriculture doesn't make up the same proportion of the economy in SA as it did in Zimbabwe, land grabs will still make a substantial dent in their economy, not to mention ruin business confidence in the entire country.

 

[Yekcidmij]

https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/state-takes-first-farm-20180818

The State has submitted the paperwork and sent out writs to seize the first farms without compensation. One of which is a R200 million Game farm and safari lodge.

Afriforum, an Afrikaans civil rights group and union, has begun the process to contest it in court. A list of 125 farms has been issued to be seized, but so far only the first 2 received notification.

The mood is dark. Many prophesy that the farmers on those 125 farms will now sell off everything not nailed down, and if this continues, the banks that hold the loans on such farms will have to write them off. Many expect an economic apocalypse if the courts don't manage to hold the line.

It's never good when government so blatantly violates property rights. Not only does it immediately hurt the farmers who are the victims of thievery, but it sends a strong signal to anyone else who wants to do any kind of business there: your property rights are not respected. And not only are property rights not respected, but their violation is institutionalized. This never ends well.

 

[durangodawood]

Legalized theft is still theft.

Is this all a case of: wait til white people have taken the land, then going forward consider taking land immoral?

 

[LaSorcia]

Is this all a case of: wait til white people have taken the land, then going forward consider taking land immoral?

There was no need to quote my post to make your postulation. You can read whatever you want into my five-word statement, but that doesn't mean it will be accurate.

 

[Desk trauma]

Is this all a case of: wait til white people have taken the land, then going forward consider taking land immoral?

No.

 

[durangodawood]

No.

How do you know this?

 

[Desk trauma]

How do you know this?

Reading about the situation.

 

[Citanul]

When even Zimbabwe has started to realise how stupid the farm grabs were, you have to wonder how insane the South African government is to pursue the same policy.

It might not actually be the same policy. But that's part of the problem - nobody really knows what the government's plan is regarding land expropriation.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but my understanding is that the South African Constitution already allows for the possibility of expropriation without compensation, and recent discussions in parliament are seeking to clarify certain issues around that form of expropriation. But the question is what happens once that's been done?

I have read suggestions that the government may actually end up doing very little (or maybe not even any) expropriation without compensation and it's more of a political move ahead of next year's elections, hoping to lure voters away from the EFF (a breakaway party who have been pushing the land issue). But we'll never know if that's the true motivation as they're not going to come out and say it.

There have also been comments made by a high-ranking party member that the way expropriation could be carried out would be to cap the size of farms at 12,000 hectares, and any farms larger than that would lose the excess land. While I'm still against the idea, that does sound like a more reasonable way of doing it than taking away entire farms, although I have absolutely no clue how big 12,000 hectares actually is, so I don't know if this is at all feasible. And even though this has been said, we don't know whether this will be actual policy or it's just an opinion.

There has been a list made public of 195 farms which it's claimed are being targeted for expropriation (I'm not sure whether that's with or without compensation), but it wasn't released by the government, and they are naturally denying its validity. I don't know how many farms there are in South Africa, but Google did throw up numbers greater than 100,000 - in which case 195 is a very small percentage, and while it obviously could be disastrous for the owners of those farms it may not have such an impact if it stops there. That is assuming it stops there, and of course there's no guarantee that it will.

And even though the article linked to in the OP claims to be about expropriation without compensation, I'm not so sure that it is. My reading of the article is that the farms mentioned have been under negotiation for a number of years but they've failed to come to agreement on just how much should be paid for the land, with the government now looking to try to force the owners to accept what's been offered, but it is still worrying that they'll do that.

I hope this doesn't come across as me supporting expropriation without compensation, as I don't because I think it's a bad idea. What I am trying to do is to look for a glimmer of hope in the mess as there have been indications that it might be handled sensibly. But no matter where in the world you live, you'll probably agree that "government" and "sensibly" don't always go hand in hand.

So really for now there's just a whole lot of uncertainty, and it could be that the speculation is doing far more damage than the expropriation ever will. Or it could be that dark days are ahead for the country...

 

[Yekcidmij]

Is this all a case of: wait til white people have taken the land, then going forward consider taking land immoral?

So the people living on these farms "took the land?" Which ones "took" it? Who did they "take" it from? When did all of this happen? What evidence do you have?