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Kyle Rittenhouse - hero

Maria Billingsley

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At the risk of committing blasphemy (which I don't think it is), the first words could very well read, "Woke unto them", and it would be accurate for these times. It's the woke of this country who turn everything around in meanings, and call patriotism evil and marxism good. Looters and arsonists good, and peacekeepers vigilantes.
This(Isaiah 5) was a warning to His chosen people.
If you think murder is righteous, may I remind you " Thou shall not kill". If you think patriotism to a government is righteous , may I remind you, " the government will sit on His shoulders" and if you think vigilantism is righteous, may I remind you " 13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." (Romans)
Blessings
 
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SuperCow

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My impression is that Canada has taken the issue of minority rights and especially indigenous rights much more seriously than the US, eh?

The economy in Canada was never driven by slavery, so that issue never reached a critical point in our history. Canada was founded in 1867, two years after the civil war ended. (Before that it was made up of British colonies like the U.S. before 1776.) Some African Americans fled to Canada for freedom, but not in high enough numbers to affect anyone's opinion of them significantly.

There have been several issues with Native American rights, but their populations were much lower and the disputes were mostly peaceful. As the Canadians moved west in a rush to claim land before the United States, nobody paid attention to the native tribes living in the land already, but never went to war with them either. One exception was Louis Riel who lead a couple of uprisings of the Metis in the provinces of Quebec and Manitoba. (The latter being formed as a result of the war.)
 
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SuperCow

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This(Isaiah 5) was a warning to His chosen people.
If you think murder is righteous, may I remind you " Thou shall not kill". If you think patriotism to a government is righteous , may I remind you, " the government will sit on His shoulders" and if you think vigilantism is righteous, may I remind you " 13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."
Blessings

Self-defense is not murder, but otherwise I agree. You might want to slip "Romans" before the 13 so we know where you got the quote, because when I first read it, I thought the quotes were all from Isaiah 5, but they are not.
 
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Derek1111

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This is truly a horrible thread.

Whatever Rittenhouse was acquitted of, let's not lose sight of the fact that he was almost certainly carrying his weapon unlawfully [unless anyone is arguing that he was just hunting, then any person u-18 bearing a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A felony]; he did not have a permit; he was not old enough to carry; and - more to the point - he was woefully ill-equipped to do whatever he claimed he was doing. What on earth could he hope to achieve by unlawfully carrying a weapon that LEOs couldn't?

He's not a hero. At best, he is a misguided and foolhardy kid, whose reckless actions directly caused the deaths of several people.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Self-defense is not murder, but otherwise I agree. You might want to slip "Romans" before the 13 so we know where you got the quote, because when I first read it, I thought the quotes were all from Isaiah 5, but they are not.
I am one who belives he instigated everything nullifying the claim of self defense.
 
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Derek1111

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I am one who belives he instigated everything nullifying the claim of self defense.
well, quite. He cannot legally claim to have acted in self-defense simply because he was in the commission of two crimes himself (carrying weapons unlawfully). He could only justifiably claim self-defense if he was in imminent danger. Shooting someone who threw a bag of garbage in his direction is not imminent danger. He subsequently fired into a crowd.

Some people are OKing this because the victims have unpleasant backgrounds with the law. Putting aside the fact that Rittenhouse did not know this, what a horrible way for people who consider themselves children of God to think. How awful for people to think so little of peole's lives, that we're better off without them because some idiot with a gun happened to be around that night.

Despicable.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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well, quite. He cannot legally claim to have acted in self-defense simply because he was in the commission of two crimes himself (carrying weapons unlawfully). He could only justifiably claim self-defense if he was in imminent danger. Shooting someone who threw a bag of garbage in his direction is not imminent danger. He subsequently fired into a crowd.

Some people are OKing this because the victims have unpleasant backgrounds with the law. Putting aside the fact that Rittenhouse did not know this, what a horrible way for people who consider themselves children of God to think. How awful for people to think so little of peole's lives, that we're better off without them because some idiot with a gun happened to be around that night.

Despicable.
Three more vigilantes are on trial as we speak. Let's see how this pans out.
 
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SuperCow

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This is truly a horrible thread.

Whatever Rittenhouse was acquitted of, let's not lose sight of the fact that he was almost certainly carrying his weapon unlawfully [unless anyone is arguing that he was just hunting, then any person u-18 bearing a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A felony]; he did not have a permit; he was not old enough to carry; and - more to the point - he was woefully ill-equipped to do whatever he claimed he was doing. What on earth could he hope to achieve by unlawfully carrying a weapon that LEOs couldn't?

He's not a hero. At best, he is a misguided and foolhardy kid, whose reckless actions directly caused the deaths of several people.

well, quite. He cannot legally claim to have acted in self-defense simply because he was in the commission of two crimes himself (carrying weapons unlawfully). He could only justifiably claim self-defense if he was in imminent danger. Shooting someone who threw a bag of garbage in his direction is not imminent danger. He subsequently fired into a crowd.

Some people are OKing this because the victims have unpleasant backgrounds with the law. Putting aside the fact that Rittenhouse did not know this, what a horrible way for people who consider themselves children of God to think. How awful for people to think so little of peole's lives, that we're better off without them because some idiot with a gun happened to be around that night.

Despicable.

You can argue Wisconsin gun law is bad, or debate whether he was truly defending himself, but please stop spreading the misinformation that Kyle Rittenhouse was breaking the law before he even pulled the trigger. That is not true. The judge threw that charge out because it conflicted with Wisconsin law.

Without arguing for or against Wisconsin statute, it basically is summarized as this:

Possession and control of firearms outside of family land, require the accompaniment of a person 18 or more, until the person is 16.

From 16 to 18 rifles and shotguns may be carried openly without the presence of an adult, but not dangerous weapons as defined by law. Under Wisconsin statute this means a gun with a barrel shorter than 12 inches (concealable)

From 18 to 21 legal weapons may be carried openly, the list of dangerous weapons no longer applies, but concealed carry is still prohibited.

Age 21 or over, a concealed carry permit shall be issued if applied for. Most adults are eligible.

So Kyle (being 17) was legally allowed to carry his weapon, as long as he did not try to conceal it, and if he was being supervised by an adult, he could have been as young as 12.
 
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Aldebaran

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This(Isaiah 5) was a warning to His chosen people.
If you think murder is righteous, may I remind you " Thou shall not kill". If you think patriotism to a government is righteous , may I remind you, " the government will sit on His shoulders" and if you think vigilantism is righteous, may I remind you " 13 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." (Romans)
Blessings

You're just taking scripture quotes out of context and misapplying them.
 
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Aldebaran

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This is truly a horrible thread.

Whatever Rittenhouse was acquitted of, let's not lose sight of the fact that he was almost certainly carrying his weapon unlawfully [unless anyone is arguing that he was just hunting, then any person u-18 bearing a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A felony]; he did not have a permit; he was not old enough to carry; and - more to the point - he was woefully ill-equipped to do whatever he claimed he was doing. What on earth could he hope to achieve by unlawfully carrying a weapon that LEOs couldn't?

He's not a hero. At best, he is a misguided and foolhardy kid, whose reckless actions directly caused the deaths of several people.

Do you respect the law that you claim so much knowledge about? Then respect the legal system. Kyle went through the entire legal process, the evidence was presented, and he was acquitted. Stop with the slander that leads to things like what happened in Waukesha where a black guy saw fit to run down a bunch of children. That's what happens when you keep spreading lies and disinformation.
 
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Aldebaran

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Three more vigilantes are on trial as we speak. Let's see how this pans out.

I'll be interested to see if the same people who still see Rittenhouse as a vigilante will hold the same view of the black guy that mowed down children with his SUV in Waukesha.
 
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Peter J Barban

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The court determined that Rittenhouse was not in violation of any laws when he defended himself.

Unfortunately, the media have been lying about this for over a year and a lot of you have been brainwashed into believing a host of lies about Rittenhouse.

If you still think Rittenhouse violated any laws that night in Kenosha, then you have your lie-spreading friends and the media to blame.

Since you are factually wrong about this, in spite of a vast ocean of contrary information, what other lies from the media do you believe?

I suggest that you get some new sources of information and fellowship
 
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Peter J Barban

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As for the trope that Rittenhouse had no business being there that night, his stated business was to protect property from rioters and to render aid to any who were hurt.

In fact, Rittenhouse did protect property, put out fires, and give first aid to two rioters before he was assaulted. The night before, he scrubbed graffiti from a school that protesters had defaced.

His business was to be a good Samaritan to the community that contained his work, his family, and his friends. It may not have been wise, but it was heroic and there were many other unsung heroes that night.

If you deny Rittenhouse his moral right to help others during a riot when the police are intentionally absent, then also you deny all victims the moral right to ask for aid in the face of evil.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Do you respect the law that you claim so much knowledge about? Then respect the legal system. Kyle went through the entire legal process, the evidence was presented, and he was acquitted.
I think it's something to monitor.

If the legal system is applied correctly and the result still doesn't sit right with people, there could be a serious problem brewing if the outrage is strong enough.

I've heard a lot of people distinguish between murder (unlawful killing) and killing in self defence (permissible). They state that KR was killing in self defence. I don't know if that's true or not. Maybe it was self defence and maybe it was murder - I guess you'd have to know what he was thinking at the time?
(I say this because, the news I read, stated this case of murder or self defence is about whether or not he reasonably believed his life was in danger)

My reading of the situation in america is that - legal self defence or not - many people feel that something horribly immoral happened. Is this fair?

The justice system may be unable to cope with the incoherence from "the people" (Left and right demanding two different things).
In other words - the collapse of your institutions / war.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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The court determined that Rittenhouse was not in violation of any laws when he defended himself.
Is it fair to say that a significant number of people are outraged by what the court has determined?

Unfortunately, the media have been lying about this for over a year and a lot of you have been brainwashed into believing a host of lies about Rittenhouse.
I guess it would be hard to know what to believe and what not.
Generally - I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have their hearts in the right place.
Of course - some people have the hatred within them and will accept anything that allows them to self justify the expression of their hate.
That being said - innocent people not knowing any better - but doing their best to find the truth out - and getting it wrong - I can't really fault them for doing their best.

If you still think Rittenhouse violated any laws that night in Kenosha,
What I think I'm seeing is, a lot of people seem to have a deep conviction that he did something pretty immoral and a lot of people think he did a good thing.
It seems to me that a lot of people would like the law to have said more on this and have punished him.
So in otherwords - it seems to me that many people feel justice was not done - meaning they feel the courts and legal system failed them - meaning, your society is in trouble if it's not careful.
They may even have a fair point.
 
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Peter J Barban

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Is it fair to say that a significant number of people are outraged by what the court has determined?


I guess it would be hard to know what to believe and what not.
Generally - I try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have their hearts in the right place.
Of course - some people have the hatred within them and will accept anything that allows them to self justify the expression of their hate.
That being said - innocent people not knowing any better - but doing their best to find the truth out - and getting it wrong - I can't really fault them for doing their best.


What I think I'm seeing is, a lot of people seem to have a deep conviction that he did something pretty immoral and a lot of people think he did a good thing.
It seems to me that some people would like the law to say more on an event like this.
A lot of people don't know the facts of the case, they only know the propaganda of the media.

Here is one recent example.

I watched a significant point in the trial where the guy who got shot in the arm (Gaige Grosskreutz) first testified to the prosecutor that Rittenhouse shot him while Grosskreutz had his arms up in the air in surrender. But under cross-examination, Grosskreuntz admitted that Rittenhouse did not shoot him until he put his hands down, pulled out a concealed gun, pointed it a Rittenhouse, and walked toward him.

I turned to see what the media had to say about this and the Chicago anchor for CBS? said that court testimony revealed Rittenhouse shot Grosskreunze while he had his hands up. She left out the rest of the testimony. Naturally, anyone watching that TV program would be outraged by Rittenhouse.

Now multiply this deception by hundreds of media outlets for over a year. The American media is the least trusted media in the world for these kinds of shenanigans.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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...I turned to see what the media had to say about this and the Chicago anchor for CBS? said that court testimony revealed Rittenhouse shot Grosskreunze while he had his hands up. She left out the rest of the testimony. Naturally, anyone watching that TV program would be outraged by Rittenhouse.
Now multiply this deception by hundreds of media outlets for over a year. The American media is the least trusted media in the world for these kinds of shenanigans.
So lot of people are misinformed and you blame the media for that?
 
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RDKirk

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If Kyle Rittenhouse was there to protect a place, he should have been at the place he was there to protect.

This reminds me of the situation a few years back when the armed citizen chose to get into an argument with a woman sitting in a car parked in a handicapped zone. A fight with her boyfriend occurred, the armed citizen got knocked down, and shot the boyfriend.

I would agree that in the moment of being knocked down--as Kyle Rittenhouse was--the situation turned into self-defense.

But I would also point out that the man with the gun unnecessarily precipitated the situation, and the same with Kyle Rittenhouse.
 
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SuperCow

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The American media is the least trusted media in the world for these kinds of shenanigans.

This might be an exaggeration. What about the media in North Korea?
 
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