Kwanzaa

[Creech]

Having looked up nation in the dictionary, I do see what you're getting at now.

I was thinking nation in the official, legal sense.

Yes, perhaps I should have stated my view of what it is from the beginning to avoid confusion.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Not all whites are part of the same nation at all, even in the United States. I am by no means a racialist. For example, I think unique cultures such as the South, the Eastern European area cultures, have a different culture and heritage than me. There are even ethnic enclaves of every nationality that are far different from my culture. I am by no means against Christian brotherhood and unity. I am also not in favor of total separation from everyone but your own culture. But I think culture, heritage, and nationhood are all vital parts of human diversity that should be acknowledged and preserved.

So how many nations are there in the US then, by your standards?

I really don't see your view being the case (now that I understand it!) anyway. There is *far* too much cultural mixing and overlap to have any true sense of nation-ness. About the only real exception I can think of is Native American nations. And that's a whole other discussion right there...I'm just using them as an example.

Yes, perhaps I should have stated my view of what it is from the beginning to avoid confusion.

I do that a lot too. Get ahead of myself. That's why I encourage people to ask me questions.

 

[nightflight]

In 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment.[16] One of the victims gave testimony of how Karenga and other men tortured her and another woman. The woman described having been stripped and beaten with an electrical cord. Karenga's estranged wife, Brenda Lorraine Karenga, testified that she sat on the other woman’s stomach while another man forced water into her mouth through a hose.
A May 14, 1971, article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."[17]
​

Maulana Karenga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Karenga also delivered the eulogy for Khalid Abdul Muhammed, founder of the New Black Panther Party, who was know for his racism and Jew-hatred.

Nice.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Not all whites are part of the same nation at all, even in the United States. I am by no means a racialist. For example, I think unique cultures such as the South, the Eastern European area cultures, have a different culture and heritage than me. There are even ethnic enclaves of every nationality that are far different from my culture. I am by no means against Christian brotherhood and unity. I am also not in favor of total separation from everyone but your own culture. But I think culture, heritage, and nationhood are all vital parts of human diversity that should be acknowledged and preserved.

I've seen in other threads you're against interracial relationships. So you'd also have a problem then, if your child, married a white person from another part of the USA to you, if there culture differed?

I seriously dont think your "rules" apply to white people of western european stock on this issue, I bet you.

It seems to me you're just trying to "dress up", something that is plainly obvious to everybody else.

 

[USincognito]

To celebrate nationalism, that's why.

That's a rather vague answer, but it was made a holiday as concession/social bribery to Italian-Americans. There's been a lot of criticism of that choice over the years, primarily by Native-Americans and anti-Catholics (or those who wrongfully feared the influence of Popery).

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I've seen in other threads you're against interracial relationships. So you'd also have a problem then, if your child, married a white person from another part of the USA to you, if there culture differed?

I seriously dont think your "rules" apply to white people of western european stock on this issue, I bet you.

It seems to me you're just trying to "dress up", something that is plainly obvious to everybody else.

As someone with an interracial child, I'd love to hear the response to this.

 

[Creech]

So how many nations are there in the US then, by your standards?

I really don't see your view being the case (now that I understand it!) anyway. There is *far* too much cultural mixing and overlap to have any true sense of nation-ness. About the only real exception I can think of is Native American nations. And that's a whole other discussion right there...I'm just using them as an example.


I do that a lot too. Get ahead of myself. That's why I encourage people to ask me questions.

Well I think there is a large number of different cultures/nations in America, and that's why I think a more localized control would be the best solution.

 

[Creech]

I've seen in other threads you're against interracial relationships. So you'd also have a problem then, if your child, married a white person from another part of the USA to you, if there culture differed?

I seriously dont think your "rules" apply to white people of western european stock on this issue, I bet you.

It seems to me you're just trying to "dress up", something that is plainly obvious to everybody else.

Well It really depends. Not to insult Southerners, but I would be uncomfortable if my child decided to marry someone with a very thick accent and heavily influenced by Southern cultural values. I would also be uncomfortable for the same reason if they married a person of African stock.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Well It really depends. Not to insult Southerners, but I would be uncomfortable if my child decided to marry someone with a very thick accent and heavily influenced by Southern cultural values. I would also be uncomfortable for the same reason if they married a person of African stock.

So it depends on what?

If someone is from the South and is white, but shares most of your cultural traits, thats okay?

What happens then if somebody is black and shares alot of cultural traits and doesnt act like how you percieve main stream black culture, does that also "depend" and is okay then?

A key word is "depends" here, as its a simple "no-no" for black people, but "Depends" when it comes to white people.

You're supposed to be conservative.

Black people who identify as Conservative are usually very similier in culture to white people who identify as Conservative, I've seen them agreeing in hating stuff like Affirmitive Action (USA)/"Positive" Discrimination (UK) and basically agree with each other on most issues, but differ in skin colour.

So what "depends" I ask.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Well I think there is a large number of different cultures/nations in America, and that's why I think a more localized control would be the best solution.

I'm not even gonna touch that one.

Well It really depends. Not to insult Southerners, but I would be uncomfortable if my child decided to marry someone with a very thick accent and heavily influenced by Southern cultural values. I would also be uncomfortable for the same reason if they married a person of African stock.

So no rednecks or blacks. Gotcha.

Bear in mind that people choose their own mates. A parent's discomfort over the choice is irrelevant. Yes, I've had to deal with this myself and it sucked. So bear that in mind when you consider how you express your feelings about race to your children. They really will marry who they will regardless of how you feel.

 

[Rion]

What does that have to do with the anything?

His point is that we don't push for acceptance and acknowledgement of our celebrations by others. Ask an average person, and they're far more likely to know when Black History Month is, than Native American Heritage Month.

Personally, I welcome any of my fellow Cherokee who wish to celebrate their culture and history to do so. However, if some tribe member made a new holiday whose intended purpose was to take from the celebration of Christ, I would reject it absolutely. Even if my friends and family celebrated it without the intention of doing so, I would still refuse based on what its intent was. If Kwanzaa's origin doesn't bother you, knock yourself out. Just be aware that many of us have an issue with it because of its origins.

 

[Lilly Owl]

I thought everyone knew Kwanzaa was racist and a hoax!


[SIZE=-1]This article appeared in The Textbook Letter for September-October 2000.
It accompanied a review of The American Nation, a high-school textbook,
issued by Prentice Hall, that purportedly deals with American history.
[/SIZE]
The Kwanzaa Hoax

William J. Bennetta

Karenga has concocted some bits of lore, lingo, and mumbo-jumbo that are intended to make Kwanzaa look like something out of Africa instead of something from Los Angeles County, but his efforts have been feeble. If you scan The Official Kwanzaa Web Site [see note 1, below], you'll read that the origins of Kwanzaa lie in "the first harvest celebrations of Africa," which allegedly "are recorded in African history as far back as ancient Egypt and Nubia" -- but there is no explanation of why any ancient Egyptians or Nubians might have held harvest festivals around the time of the winter solstice, and there is no identification of the crops that they harvested. Karenga's formula for celebrating Kwanzaa requires the use of two ears of maize -- but maize is a New World plant, and it wasn't known at all in ancient Africa.

 

[USincognito]

I thought everyone knew Kwanzaa was racist and a hoax!

How is it a hoax? Made up =/= a hoax.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

His point is that we don't push for acceptance and acknowledgement of our celebrations by others. Ask an average person, and they're far more likely to know when Black History Month is, than Native American Heritage Month.

Personally, I welcome any of my fellow Cherokee who wish to celebrate their culture and history to do so. However, if some tribe member made a new holiday whose intended purpose was to take from the celebration of Christ, I would reject it absolutely. Even if my friends and family celebrated it without the intention of doing so, I would still refuse based on what its intent was. If Kwanzaa's origin doesn't bother you, knock yourself out. Just be aware that many of us have an issue with it because of its origins.

Greetings, brother.


I almost missed it this past November! It was the first year I was really aware of it...and I'm a Cherokee. Well, "part" Cherokee. That's a whole other discussion right there.

 

[Avniel]

why would black people get scared / offended if white people have white pride / empower themselves?

Sent from my tablet using CF

Because last time that we were slaves they say history has a way of repeating itself. It's only logical

 

[Avniel]

His point is that we don't push for acceptance and acknowledgement of our celebrations by others. Ask an average person, and they're far more likely to know when Black History Month is, than Native American Heritage Month.

Personally, I welcome any of my fellow Cherokee who wish to celebrate their culture and history to do so. However, if some tribe member made a new holiday whose intended purpose was to take from the celebration of Christ, I would reject it absolutely. Even if my friends and family celebrated it without the intention of doing so, I would still refuse based on what its intent was. If Kwanzaa's origin doesn't bother you, knock yourself out. Just be aware that many of us have an issue with it because of its origins.

Black history month is a joke. There is European history, american history taught in high school lets have African American history a part of the curriculum also.

The fact is there are black children that know nothing about their own history. I don't think the average black Americans care if their history is known or taught to whites. However our children deserve the right to know their history.

It's sad I can have a black history conversation with a Jamaican drug dealer with no education and the typical high school black American has no idea.

By the way I don't celebrate it or Christmas I don't take part in celebrations that have no meaning.

 

[Rion]

Greetings, brother.


I almost missed it this past November! It was the first year I was really aware of it...and I'm a Cherokee. Well, "part" Cherokee. That's a whole other discussion right there.

Greetings!

As far as the "part" goes, I generally think it's kind of silly since genetics don't work that way. My one sister, for example, really takes after my dad's side, and doesn't look like she has any Cherokee in her. However, her daughter *really* shows her heritage. The only time I really have any sort of issue with it is when someone wants to use it for personal gain and can't prove they have actual tribal blood in them. *cough*Warren*cough*

 

[Rion]

Black history month is a joke. There is European history, american history taught in high school lets have African American history a part of the curriculum also.

The fact is there are black children that know nothing about their own history. I don't think the average black Americans care if their history is known or taught to whites. However our children deserve the right to know their history.

It's sad I can have a black history conversation with a Jamaican drug dealer with no education and the typical high school black American has no idea.

By the way I don't celebrate it or Christmas I don't take part in celebrations that have no meaning.

If you mean actual history, sure. If you mean Afrocentric pseudo-history, no. Just... no.

 

[DaisyDay]

Greetings!

As far as the "part" goes, I generally think it's kind of silly since genetics don't work that way. My one sister, for example, really takes after my dad's side, and doesn't look like she has any Cherokee in her. However, her daughter *really* shows her heritage.

How do genetics work?

The only time I really have any sort of issue with it is when someone wants to use it for personal gain and can't prove they have actual tribal blood in them. *cough*Warren*cough*

She didn't do it for gain, despite the right-wing talking point.

 

[Rion]

She didn't do it for gain, despite the right-wing talking point.

We already discussed that in another thread, Daisy. After I proved her claim was wrong, you stopped responding.