Kwanzaa

[Creech]

As someone said earlier, I am not racist but...

So are you saying I have to bow down to people like MLK to not be considered "racist"? Let me give you a good example. Many Southerners would consider people like Robert E. Lee their hero. I don't consider him my hero, and I'm sure most blacks wouldn't either. Does that mean we are Anti-Southern? Not at all.

 

[Sistrin]

As someone said earlier, I am not racist but...

That isn't his point. I consider MLK an admirable man and an effective leader in his time. But I also don't consider him a hero.

His most admirable quote, in my opinion, is:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character".

Given the rhetoric current today and for many years, do you really think people today are taking this notion to heart?

 

[praying]

So are you saying I have to bow down to people like MLK to not be considered "racist"? Let me give you a good example. Many Southerners would consider people like Robert E. Lee their hero. I don't consider him my hero, and I'm sure most blacks wouldn't either. Does that mean we are Anti-Southern? Not at all.

I don't think anyone needs to bow down to anyone for any reason. Let's reserve that for worshiping, if one believes in such things.

 

[Grizzly]

As someone said earlier, I am not racist but...

...Rosa Parks should have sat in the back of the bus like a good Negro.

 

[praying]

That isn't his point.

What isn't his point?

I consider MLK an admirable man and an effective leader in his time. But I also don't consider him a hero.

That is (one of) the definition of hero, an admirable person.

His most admirable quote, in my opinion, is:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character".

Given the rhetoric current today and for many years, do you really think people today are taking this notion to heart?

I think some people do, and some don't.

 

[abdAlSalam]

So are you saying I have to bow down to people like MLK to not be considered "racist"? Let me give you a good example. Many Southerners would consider people like Robert E. Lee their hero. I don't consider him my hero, and I'm sure most blacks wouldn't either. Does that mean we are Anti-Southern? Not at all.

A man who rose up against the legitimate government of the United States is akin to people who rose up to defend the freedoms that should have been inherent in the beginning? Don't answer that, I already know you don't believe in the Union.

 

[praying]

...Rosa Parks should have sat in the back of the bus like a good Negro.

 

[Sistrin]

...Rosa Parks should have sat in the back of the bus like a good Negro.

No, no one made that point either. Rosa Parks is another admirable person, but, given the time in history when she played her role, I actually admire Nichelle Nichols more for staying with that role and performing it in the manner she did. I would put her more in a personal hero status, but I suppose part of that is due to the fact she is a more current figure.

 

[abdAlSalam]

No, no one made that point either. Rosa Parks is another admirable person, but, given the time in history when she played her role, I actually admire Nichelle Nichols more for staying with that role and performing it in the manner she did. I would put her more in a personal hero status, but I suppose part of that is due to the fact she is a more current figure.

Do you have people that you consider heroes? If so, why are they your heroes?

 

[Creech]

A man who rose up against the legitimate government of the United States is akin to people who rose up to defend the freedoms that should have been inherent in the beginning? Don't answer that, I already know you don't believe in the Union.

Me celebrating MLK is like people in Spain celebrating George Washington. As a white man, I do not have the same traditions, heroes, culture, etc. as a black man and vice versa. This is my point. People in France certainly wouldn't be building huge monuments to people like Abe Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson. And I will never support holidays/statues for MLK in my own community. If the black community wishes to have it in theirs, then that is perfectly fine.

 

[praying]

Me celebrating MLK is like people in Spain celebrating George Washington. As a white man, I do not have the same traditions, heroes, culture, etc. as a black man and vice versa. This is my point. People in France certainly wouldn't be building huge monuments to people like Abe Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson. And I will never support holidays/statues for MLK in my own community. If the black community wishes to have it in theirs, then that is perfectly fine.

So are we to extrapolate you don't approve of what he fought for? Clearly America is a better place with justice for all.

 

[praying]

Aslo does that mean whites should not celebrate Hank Aaron, or Patricia Bath or others? Or is it just civil rights leaders?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Being British I probably shouldn't be posting here but I'm rather glad that Kwanzaa is barely noticed in the UK. Black people have trouble over here too (unemployment for example) yet I rarely hear black Britons demanding that we give them their own special holiday.

In fact the only time I can recall hearing it is from Bonnie Greer, a writer for the left-wing newspaper The Guardian. And I suspect the only reason she has any opinion on it is because she was born and raised in the US.

You could argue that black people deserve their own holiday to restore their pride after centuries of oppression, but frankly it's not as if they're the only group in the world who faced slavery and discrimination. Indians probably suffered just as much, if not more so, under British rule - and they aren't demanding their own special holiday either. In fact one survey showed Indian Britions have the highest life satisfaction rate in the UK (link).

The idea that Christmas is for "white people" echos the same racist nonsense I frequently hear from Christian Identity (white nationalist) supporters. It's depressing to hear black people agreeing with that argument.

 

[Sistrin]

Do you have people that you consider heroes? If so, why are they your heroes?

There are many people in life I either like or admire. Writers, authors, political pundits, a few ball players, one or two actors. But having dedicated a great portion of my life to the military those who fall into "hero" status tend to be associated with the military. The late Norman Schwarzkopf, whom I did see while in the Gulf but never met, is certainly one. Colin Powell is another. In college I met one Major Mike Hendricks, and although I never served with him after going on active duty myself he was always an inspiration. I served with a Sgt. Mick in Korea who to this day I consider a very admirable man, as he epitomized the concepts of duty and honor.

As for those with celebrity status, few rise to that level, as celebrity status alone implies nothing about a person's character. I love Samuel L. Jackson movies, but doubt I would cross the street to get his autograph. Greg Maddux or Chipper Jones? Sure.

 

[Creech]

So are we to extrapolate you don't approve of what he fought for? Clearly America is a better place with justice for all.

Has it made America better? Maybe. But just like Irish Independence maybe made Ireland a better place, you won't see them making it an official public holiday in the UK with statues of Irish Independence leaders all over England.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Me celebrating MLK is like people in Spain celebrating George Washington. As a white man, I do not have the same traditions, heroes, culture, etc. as a black man and vice versa. This is my point. People in France certainly wouldn't be building huge monuments to people like Abe Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson. And I will never support holidays/statues for MLK in my own community. If the black community wishes to have it in theirs, then that is perfectly fine.

And yet the French built monuments to Napoleon, who was not actually French. Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. were American heroes. Why are they not your own heroes?

 

[Sistrin]

Here is maybe a more appropriate example of what I am saying. I like and respect Juan Williams, a political pundit often featured on FOX News. Williams tends to be a leftist and espouse leftist ideals, but he is one of the few who is more often than not free of the usual vitriol found when watching Chris Matthews or Olberman or Sharpton. Williams just makes his points, and although he may be passionate concerning those points, he typically isn't arrogant beyond belief in going about it.

Tavis Smiley, however, is a liberal moron.

Neither of these observations have anything to do with the color of their skin. It has to do with how they conduct themselves.

 

[JCSr]

Has it made America better? Maybe. But just like Irish Independence maybe made Ireland a better place, you won't see them making it an official public holiday in the UK with statues of Irish Independence leaders all over England.

You really have missed the boat on the American slavery issue and how it changed a whole race of people brought here against their will. Celebration of achievement is necessary not only for blacks, but the whole country! Celebrate with us! Celebrate with our black brothers and sisters! This is not Ireland, this the USA

 

[Creech]

You really have missed the boat on the American slavery issue and how it changed a whole race of people brought here against their will. Celebration of achievement is necessary not only for blacks, but the whole country! Celebrate with us! Celebrate with our black brothers and sisters! This is not Ireland, this the USA

I love all nations and races of people and I hope they continue their traditions and celebrations. But just because we are close in geography doesn't mean we are the same people. If all of the people from France moved to the United States, they would still be French and have their separate customs and culture.

 

[Creech]

And yet the French built monuments to Napoleon, who was not actually French. Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. were American heroes. Why are they not your own heroes?

The primary concern of people like Parks and King is their own people. I don't think this is a bad thing at all. But they would probably not consider me part of their nation of people, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Napoleon, although not ethnically French, fought for the French. MLK and Rosa Parks fought for the blacks.