Kwanzaa

[Grizzly]

The primary concern of people like Parks and King is their own people. I don't think this is a bad thing at all. But they would probably not consider me part of their nation of people, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Napoleon, although not ethnically French, fought for the French. MLK and Rosa Parks fought for the blacks.

They fought against injustice - and I believe they should be admired for it. Fighting against injustice - especially against a government - is quite an American trait. And they deserve a place of honor in American history.

 

[JCSr]

I love all nations and races of people and I hope they continue their traditions and celebrations. But just because we are close in geography doesn't mean we are the same people. If all of the people from France moved to the United States, they would still be French and have their separate customs and culture.

Then you decline to celebrate with us?

 

[abdAlSalam]

The primary concern of people like Parks and King is their own people. I don't think this is a bad thing at all. But they would probably not consider me part of their nation of people, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Napoleon, although not ethnically French, fought for the French. MLK and Rosa Parks fought for the blacks.

They didn't fight for "their own people" they fought against injustice. The fact that that injustice happened to be against one group is not the fault of the people, it's the fault of the oppressors.

 

[Creech]

Then you decline to celebrate with us?

Just like how I do not celebrate Bastille Day or Mexican Independence Day, I have to respectfully decline to celebrate.

 

[Creech]

They didn't fight for "their own people" they fought against injustice. The fact that that injustice happened to be against one group is not the fault of the people, it's the fault of the oppressors.

Although the idea of fighting against injustice may be noble, people like King advocated and went about it in Anti-Liberty and forceful ways.

Also, should we also make a public holiday celebrating the injustice the Irish faced? Should we put up statues of Irish independence leaders all over out capitol? I don't think so.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Although the idea of fighting against injustice may be noble, people like King advocated and went about it in Anti-Liberty and forceful ways.

How so? Where does one liberty end and one liberty begin?

 

[JCSr]

Just like how I do not celebrate Bastille Day or Mexican Independence Day, I have to respectfully decline to celebrate.

We don't have a Rosa Parks day, yet you can still celebrate her accomplishment! No need to break out the hats and hooters, just hold one fist in the air as a sign of solidarity.

That is a good celebration. Care to join us?

 

[Grizzly]

Also, should we also make a public holiday celebrating the injustice the Irish faced? Should we put up statues of Irish independence leaders all over out capitol? I don't think so.

Well, no. They're Irish. MLK and Rosa Parks were Americans. Americans of distinction. A public holiday commemorating their struggle against injustice seems perfectly appropriate for all Americans to celebrate. Unless, of course, you don't think they were fighting an injustice.

 

[pgp_protector]

I never even said anything like that. I do admit that I feel Kwanzaa is trying to take attention away from Christmas. I would have no problem if it fell on another date.

So how do they get approval from you for a new date, and what dates will you allow them to celebrate ?
(Remember Kwanzaa Doesn't Fall on December 25th)

 

[Creech]

Well, no. They're Irish. MLK and Rosa Parks were Americans. Americans of distinction. A public holiday commemorating their struggle against injustice seems perfectly appropriate for all Americans to celebrate. Unless, of course, you don't think they were fighting an injustice.

The term American has become very very broad and is becoming more and more meaningless sadly due to the many different cultures and nations coming to the United States. Even in the beginning, the term American had been very broad. Nowadays, i feel it mostly refers to the geographic location of being within the borders of the United States. I am not loyal to a geographic location but something organic and real such as a culture, heritage, traditions, etc.

 

[DaisyDay]

Although the idea of fighting against injustice may be noble, people like King advocated and went about it in Anti-Liberty and forceful ways.

Peaceful protest is anti-liberty and forceful?

Also, should we also make a public holiday celebrating the injustice the Irish faced? Should we put up statues of Irish independence leaders all over out capitol? I don't think so.

Do you consider black Americans to be un-American or non-American somehow?

 

[Creech]

Peaceful protest is anti-liberty and forceful?


Do you consider black Americans to be unAmerican somehow.

He advocated for forceful government intervention and for the restricting of property rights.

 

[abdAlSalam]

He advocated for forceful government intervention and for the restricting of property rights.

So you support individual rights as long as those rights only apply to business owners.

 

[Redac]

He advocated for forceful government intervention and for the restricting of property rights.

So why do you think their property rights should take precedence here?

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I think ____ [insert name of "race"] pride is bad news in general. Not a big fan of pride in and of itself. Not commenting on Kwanza because I really know nothing about it though but just giving my two cents on the racial pride issue.

This is very interesting.

I could wear a green "Celtic Pride" tee and it would be cool. But a "White Pride" tee would not be. Funny how that works!


I've been close to the Latin culture in various ways (married to a Puerto Rican is just one!) and I've heard "La Raza" quite often. The Race.

I do think we need to all move beyond racial pride.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have no problem with African-American pride, but I do find it offensive that it seemly tries to take away from Christmas. The fact is blacks in America have become their own cultural and ethnic group of people which is far different then most white Americans. It is only natural that they would want to have their separate institutions, holidays, etc like any other group of people would want to have.

However, I do have a problem with black traditions and heroes being pushed on whites, such as MLK, Rosa Parks, and things of that nature.

How are those traditions pushed on us?

You must be referring to Black History Month and things of that nature. I always enjoyed learning about that sort of thing and still do. It's fascinating.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

You can call them whatever you wish. But just like I don't consider those who led Independence movements in Mexico my heroes or those who fought for Charlemagne. I have no problem with others considering them their heroes, but they sure aren't mine.

But they are.

The didn't just fight for the civil rights of blacks. But for us all.

Do you really want to go back to drinking from the Whites Only water fountain?

 

[Grizzly]

The term American has become very very broad and is becoming more and more meaningless sadly due to the many different cultures and nations coming to the United States. Even in the beginning, the term American had been very broad. Nowadays, i feel it mostly refers to the geographic location of being within the borders of the United States. I am not loyal to a geographic location but something organic and real such as a culture, heritage, traditions, etc.

Do those cultural traditions that you are loyal to include racial segregation? It's ok to say yes (if its true). It would at least help me make sense of your posts.

 

[Rion]

I think Creech may have issues with MLK Jr's latter sentiments. While I vehemently disagree with some of the places his mind was going just before his death, I prefer to consider his entire life, not just that one aspect of his life.

 

[Creech]

I think Creech may have issues with MLK Jr's latter sentiments. While I vehemently disagree with some of the places his mind was going just before his death, I prefer to consider his entire life, not just that one aspect of his life.

That's a good point. I have no problem saying that MLK did great things for the black community and I think that is a good thing and I am not against those achievements being celebrated. But because I believe he was primarily concerned about his own people, I'll just let them celebrate.